Is Jesus God? Understanding the "Trinity"

Kampioen

Active member
Adoption only brings one into the family. God actually gives believers of his spirit for them to be born again as his sons...perhaps this is not your case. Have you been born again by the HS?
You are not making any sense... we receive the HS just as Jesus did... Jesus received the HS when he was baptized...Believers also receive the HS.
No go read it again...the kings and priests are those who have received the HS they are now sons and joint heirs with Jesus...
Rom 8
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

I agree with all that. But outside of that fact, Jesus ie the Word in Him *is* the divine nature, as is the Father and the Holy Spirit.

I don't teach that the Father the Word and the HS are persons in a trinity...that is your argument. Now you are saying they are persons but not persons...that would apply to the father also...is the father a person but not a person?

The Father is the person. The Word and Holy Spirit are part of who He is.

Do you see how silly your argument is? Are they not co equal in your doctrine...Now you are saying one is a person but the others only seem like persons but are not really persons.

They are co-equal in/are divine nature (not merely partaking).

Persons is a theological convenience term but the interactions are valid.

Where do you get those things...? when you decide to post those comments you should present the scripture that say the same thing…

Scriptures can't be presented until you understand the position.

Did you just make that up or is that written somewhere in the scripture?However I do agree with the first three words

So then the arms of Adam... not Adam is that correct...

Therefore not God but the Word of God and the Spirit of God is that correct?

The Word and Holy Spirit being part of who God is makes those distinctions God.

That makes no sense…

Analogies are not exact likenesses. That makes sense.

Therefor the Word of God became flesh, God did not become flesh... Remember you are saying only the father is a person...the Word and the HS seem to be persons but they are not persons. Therefore a non-person became flesh.Is that your position?

The nonperson the Word rather than a created awareness, serves as the awareness for the human senses, thus awakening human awareness/mentality in the Word, thus He acquired personhood, the kin-related Son of God.

Believers are Joint heirs with Jesus.. because they share the same spirit from the same father...
Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
don't see how this helps your argument…

Jesus acquiring a human mentality explains how He called the Father is the only true God. But it doesn't mean that the Word that holds that mentality is not God.

You keep making up thing that are not in the scripture sir…

I never made that argument...I have posted the scripture to you that says believers are joint heirs with Jesus...believers have the same spirit as Jesus. Do you believe this , yes or no?

Yes.. But I am saying outside of that fact, the Word in Jesus' flesh *is* the divine nature, as is the Father and the Holy Spirit.

The divine nature is the HS that was promised...I posted the scripture saying so.
Acts 2:33
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
believers receive the same HS.

Yes the divine nature *is*
the Holy Spirit as you say. But believers are partakers, not "are" the Holy Spirit.

You keep making unsupported nonsensical statements. Where is that written in the scripture?

We must understand each other's views and terms before we can deal with scriptures.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
I agree with all that. But outside of that fact, Jesus ie the Word in Him *is* the divine nature, as is the Father and the Holy Spirit.
no you don't agree if you did you wouldn't be responding with your own spin.
The Father is the person. The Word and Holy Spirit are part of who He is.
The father is God and Jesus is his son and the HS is his spirit..
They are co-equal in/are divine nature (not merely partaking).
If they are co/ equal then they all dies on the cross...Do you actually think before you write?
Persons is a theological convenience term but the interactions are valid.
No it is not it is a catholic construct to validate the trinity
Scriptures can't be presented until you understand the position.
Scriptures can always be presented... it is your misunderstanding of the scripture that causes the problem.
The Word and Holy Spirit being part of who God is makes those distinctions God.
Where does the scripture say that? You keep making up stories you just explained three distinct Gods...
Analogies are not exact likenesses. That makes sense.
No they are not but they should make it easier for someone to understand what you mean.
The nonperson the Word rather than a created awareness, serves as the awareness for the human senses, thus awakening human awareness/mentality in the Word, thus He acquired personhood, the kin-related Son of God.
What rubbish are you spewing? who is a non person? Post the scriptures that say those things...
Jesus acquiring a human mentality explains how He called the Father is the only true God.
So is the Father the only true God or not? Is Jesus lying?
But it doesn't mean that the Word that holds that mentality is not God.
If the Word is God apart from the father who is also God then you have multiple Gods
Yes.. But I am saying outside of that fact, the Word in Jesus' flesh *is* the divine nature, as is the Father and the Holy Spirit.
anything outside the fact is not fact...You are playing smart with foolishness.
Yes the divine nature *is*
the Holy Spirit as you say.
As the scripture says. We must agree with what the scripture says.
But believers are partakers, not "are" the Holy Spirit.
I never said believers are the HS ,the scripture says believers are partakers of the divine nature....you seem to disagree with the scripture.
We must understand each other's views and terms before we can deal with scriptures.
No you have it backwards we must first understand the scriptures so we can rip apart the nonsensical views posted by the unlearned.
1 Peter 3:15
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
This is you judging me which Jesus said we are not to do.
that is your misunderstanding sir Jesus actually says to judge righteous judgement...
John 7:24
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
I judge based on what you post...
I was going to ask you where you are in Jesus. He is the vine we are abiding in John 15. Without Him we can do nothing as He said. He indwells us with His holy Spirit to create in us the fruits of the spirit. If you want to say He is just a man, you would have to say His Spirit is not the Holy Spirit. So what is it, is Jesus just a man or God's Spirit in human flesh?
You are not very bright are you ...Jesus died , did he not? Jesus was resurrected and went to God his father in heaven , He also sent his spirit to those who believe that God sent him to be the savior of the world. Jesus was a man with the Spirit of God in him who obeyed God died attained eternal life and was exalted to the right hand of God. We are men and Jesus gives us the same spirit so we can obey God and attain eternal life.
I am a son of God by adoption.
So you have not been born of God? You are only adopted?
Jesus the Son of God because He is the only begotten Son, birthed directly from God's Spirit which is His Spirit.
Believers are also begotten of God...
1 Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Adam was given life by the breath/neshamah from God Genesis 2:7. In the Hebrew the word Ruach is not used. Are bodies are not given life by God's Holy Spirit. Only Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit which makes Him the only begotten Son, begotten by God's Spirit.
So you are admitting that you are not begotten of God. if you are not begotten of God how do you keep yourself?...
1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
The divne nature is exhibited in the fruits of the Spirit. The divine nature is the produce of Jesus' Holy Spirit working in us. You are confusing the divine nature with the life source that animates our bodies. You need to study more.
Back your nonsense with scripture sir. here is the problem. I keep posting the scripture that says exactly what i am telling you but you are just making claims without scripture...Yes I need to study more... but you have to start studying the scripture.
I am not denying that, you are misunderstanding the scriptures. We are born again by the Holy Spirit, which is Jesus' Spirit that we receive through repentance and faith in Jesus' atonement.
well sir born again is the same as begotten. are you begotten of God. Yes or No?
I've been baptized by the Holy Spirit as in Acts two. Have you?
Of course, I have also received the HS therefore begotten of God...are you begotten of God, Yes or No?
 

Biblican

Well-known member
ALL three Persons are The ONE True God of Israel and The Church.
You are treading on polytheism.
Nonsense. The persons are unified by the One Spirit that is God the Father. The Holy Spirit is not a person in the same way the Father and Son are. The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit which unifies the persons/souls of the Father and Son.
 

Biblican

Well-known member
You are not very bright are you ...Jesus died , did he not? Jesus was resurrected and went to God his father in heaven , He also sent his spirit to those who believe that God sent him to be the savior of the world. Jesus was a man with the Spirit of God in him who obeyed God died attained eternal life and was exalted to the right hand of God. We are men and Jesus gives us the same spirit so we can obey God and attain eternal life.
So begin by insulting my intelligence, that's not a respectful response becoming a professed Christian.
I agree with everything you said. But at the same time we cannot negate the scriptures that show Jesus' Spirit is the Holy Spirit and makes Him omnipresent and God the same way that the Holy Spirit is God. Jesus is not a mere man or we would not be purchased by "the blood of God."
So you have not been born of God? You are only adopted?
We are adopted because we are born of God.
Believers are also begotten of God...
1 Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
We are begotten through the unification of our souls with Jesus' Holy Spirit. We are not begotten in any physical sense as was Jesus, who was given life as a man by the Holy Spirit which makes Him God the same way the Holy Spirit is God. We are not divine because the spirit that gives our bodies life is not the Holy Spirit.
So you are admitting that you are not begotten of God. if you are not begotten of God how do you keep yourself?...
1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
I am not physically begotten by God, only spiritually through Jesus. You should know that, it's basic Christianity. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.
Back your nonsense with scripture sir. here is the problem. I keep posting the scripture that says exactly what i am telling you but you are just making claims without scripture...Yes I need to study more... but you have to start studying the scripture.
I have been backing my claims with scripture that's where they come from, you just refuse to acknowledge them. Read John 15. The fruits of the Spirit are produced by the Father through the Son with the Son's Holy Spirit. Without Jesus we can do nothing, because He is basically the Holy Spirit with skin on. I also gave you the scriptures that show the difference between our life source and Jesus' life source. Go read them again.
well sir born again is the same as begotten. are you begotten of God. Yes or No?
I am spiritually begotten or birthed into God's kingdom by the Holy Spirit which is Jesus' Spirit, though faith in His death and resurrection. Are you?
Of course, I have also received the HS therefore begotten of God...are you begotten of God, Yes or No?
Are you operating in any of the gifts as evidence that you have received the baptism of the Holy Spirit and what are they?
To answer your question read my previous response.
Go get a nap and a cookie.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
So begin by insulting my intelligence,
You insulted your own intelligence sir I simply recognized it
that's not a respectful response becoming a professed Christian.
I never claimed to be a Christian sir. God never called anyone to be a Christian...
I agree with everything you said. But at the same time we cannot negate the scriptures that show Jesus' Spirit is the Holy Spirit and makes Him omnipresent and God the same way that the Holy Spirit is God. Jesus is not a mere man or we would not be purchased by "the blood of God."
You keep claiming that you agree with me. I am not asking you to agree with me I am asking you to agree with the scripture which I agree with.
The scripture does not say ...Jesus' Spirit is the Holy Spirit and makes Him omnipresent and God the same way that the Holy Spirit is God. You are making that up. Again God does not have blood. God is a spirit spirits do not have blood... Men have blood . You need to make up your mind.
We are adopted because we are born of God.
No sir when we receive the HS we are born of God...Did you not read the scriptures that I posted? Here is another one...
John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
We are begotten through the unification of our souls with Jesus' Holy Spirit.
Sir man is a living soul (body and breath of life)there is no unification with the soul of man , it must be brought under subjection of the spirit of God...
Galatians 5:17
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
We are not begotten in any physical sense as was Jesus, who was given life as a man by the Holy Spirit which makes Him God the same way the Holy Spirit is God.
Sir Jesus received the HS when he was baptized. There is no scripture saying ...Jesus, who was given life as a man by the Holy Spirit which makes Him God the same way the Holy Spirit is God.
We are not divine because the spirit that gives our bodies life is not the Holy Spirit.
Sir the HS gives us eternal life...Do you have the HS in you and don't have eternal life?
I am not physically begotten by God, only spiritually through Jesus.
I did not mention anything about physically begotten. God is a spirit...Are you begotten of God Yes or No?...
1 Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
You should know that, it's basic Christianity.
God did not call anyone to be a christian
Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.
So why did you bring up physically begotten?
I have been backing my claims with scripture that's where they come from, you just refuse to acknowledge them.
No you have not...Show me in the scripture where God called you to be a Christian.
Read John 15. The fruits of the Spirit are produced by the Father through the Son with the Son's Holy Spirit.
what rubbish are you spewing ...Jn 15 does not say that.
Without Jesus we can do nothing, because He is basically the Holy Spirit with skin on.
The HS is the Spirit of God sir...God gave Jesus the fullness of his spirit.
I also gave you the scriptures that show the difference between our life source and Jesus' life source. Go read them again.
There is no difference between Jesus' life source and the believers life source...
I am spiritually begotten or birthed into God's kingdom by the Holy Spirit which is Jesus' Spirit, though faith in His death and resurrection. Are you?
but you just claimed not to be born of God because only Jesus is.
Are you operating in any of the gifts as evidence that you have received the baptism of the Holy Spirit and what are they?
You are funny, love is the criteria...
1 John 4:20
If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
You can have all the gifts and not love those gifts profit you nothing...1 Cor 13... you should read it
To answer your question read my previous response.
Go get a nap and a cookie.
you said only Jesus is begotten...you are not jesus therefore you are not begotten.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Nonsense. The persons are unified by the One Spirit that is God the Father. The Holy Spirit is not a person in the same way the Father and Son are. The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit which unifies the persons/souls of the Father and Son.
you are funny ...you are trying to teach a catholic the trinity...
Here is the basis of the trinity...Pay close attention to the red

1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;

2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.

3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;

4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.

5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.

6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.

7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.

8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated.

9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.

10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.

11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.

12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.

13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.

14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.

15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;

16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.

17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord;

18. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord.

19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;

20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords.

21. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.

22. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.

23. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.

24. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.

25. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another.

26. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal.

27. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.

28. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.

29. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.

30. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.

31. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world.

32. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.

33. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood.

34. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ.

35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God.

36. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.

37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;

38. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;

39. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty;

40. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

41. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;

42. and shall give account of their own works.

43. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.

44. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
that is your misunderstanding sir Jesus actually says to judge righteous judgement...
John 7:24
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
I judge based on what you post...

You are not very bright are you ...Jesus died , did he not? Jesus was resurrected and went to God his father in heaven , He also sent his spirit to those who believe that God sent him to be the savior of the world. Jesus was a man with the Spirit of God in him who obeyed God died attained eternal life and was exalted to the right hand of God. We are men and Jesus gives us the same spirit so we can obey God and attain eternal life.

So you have not been born of God? You are only adopted?

Believers are also begotten of God...
1 Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.


So you are admitting that you are not begotten of God. if you are not begotten of God how do you keep yourself?...
1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Back your nonsense with scripture sir. here is the problem. I keep posting the scripture that says exactly what i am telling you but you are just making claims without scripture...Yes I need to study more... but you have to start studying the scripture.

well sir born again is the same as begotten. are you begotten of God. Yes or No?

Of course, I have also received the HS therefore begotten of God...are you begotten of God, Yes or No?
Believers are SPIRITUALLY begotten of God The Holy Spirit.
Jesus Christ ALONE is LITERALLY begotten of God The Father.
Case closed.
 

Kampioen

Active member
no you don't agree if you did you wouldn't be responding with your own spin.

I did agree 2 Pet 1:4 and such were referring to likeness between believers and Christ. Both partook of the divine nature.

But that scripture doesn't address that the Word in the flesh of Christ, is the divine nature.

The father is God and Jesus is his son and the HS is his spirit..

If they are co/ equal then they all dies on the cross...Do you actually think before you write?

Only the flesh dies. But the Word in the flesh subjectively experiences demise under the influence of the non-omniscient human senses/nature.

No it is not it is a catholic construct to validate the trinity

Scriptures can always be presented... it is your misunderstanding of the scripture that causes the problem.

Where does the scripture say that? You keep making up stories you just explained three distinct Gods…

That's because you in essence imply that a man and his conscience two distinct men. If not the you would not accuse God and the Son as two different Gods.

No they are not but they should make it easier for someone to understand what you mean.

What rubbish are you spewing? who is a non person? Post the scriptures that say those things…

The Word itself is not a person but a distinction like a man's conscience. Persons for the Word and Spirit is a convenience term, not meaning as if two people.

So is the Father the only true God or not? Is Jesus lying?

The Father is the only true God. But Jesus/theWord under the mental dictates of the human senses/nature speaking is not.

But the Word in the flesh is God.

If the Word is God apart from the father who is also God then you have multiple Gods

You straw accuse. I said the Word is part of who God is otherwise there would be two Gods.

anything outside the fact is not fact...You are playing smart with foolishness.

As the scripture says. We must agree with what the scripture says.

I never said believers are the HS ,the scripture says believers are partakers of the divine nature....you seem to disagree with the scripture.

Believers and Jesus are partakers, which is scripture. But furthermore the Word in Jesus "is" (not just partakes) of the divine nature because the Word is God.

No you have it backwards we must first understand the scriptures so we can rip apart the nonsensical views posted by the unlearned.
1 Peter 3:15
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Like I said, scripture says the Word is God and thus divine nature, not merely partaking, and thus the Word in the flesh is divine nature, not merely partaking.
 
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Newbirth

Well-known member
I did agree 2 Pet 1:4 and such were referring to likeness between believers and Christ. Both partook of the divine nature.
Yes
But that scripture doesn't address that the Word in the flesh of Christ, is the divine nature.
because he is not...he has the divine nature in him
Only the flesh dies.
Jesus died, didn't he?
But the Word in the flesh subjectively experiences demise under the influence of the non-omniscient human senses/nature.
in other words Jesus died
That's because you in essence imply that a man and his conscience two distinct men.
No, I didn't imply any such thing...the conscience is not a man...
If not the you would not accuse God and the Son as two different Gods.
As a matter of fact, I was relating your position...I believe there is only one God the father... You have a God the father and a God the son I don't.
The Word itself is not a person but a distinction like a man's conscience.
Jesus is the word...You seem to be saying that Jesus is not a person...
1 John 1:1
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
Persons for the Word and Spirit is a convenience term, not meaning as if two people.
For you maybe...but the scripture refers to Jesus as the word of God...
Revelation 19:13
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
The Father is the only true God. But Jesus/theWord under the mental dictates of the human senses/nature speaking is not.
Then Jesus is not God
But the Word in the flesh is God.
No he is not...The word in the flesh is Jesus..
You straw accuse. I said the Word is part of who God is otherwise there would be two Gods.
I don't care what you say at this point...please show me what the scriptures say.
Believers and Jesus are partakers, which is scripture. But furthermore the Word in Jesus "is" (not just partakes) of the divine nature because the Word is God.
you are speaking with a forked tongue...show me where the scripture says what you wrote.
Like I said, scripture says the Word is God and thus divine nature, not merely partaking, and thus the Word in the flesh is divine nature, not merely partaking.
please show where the scripture says " the word is God"
 

Biblican

Well-known member
You insulted your own intelligence sir I simply recognized it
Nasty.
I never claimed to be a Christian sir. God never called anyone to be a Christian...
God calls everyone to salvation. The word Christian simply means "Christ in me." If Christ isn't in you, then you are not a Christian.
You keep claiming that you agree with me. I am not asking you to agree with me I am asking you to agree with the scripture which I agree with.
The scripture does not say ...Jesus' Spirit is the Holy Spirit and makes Him omnipresent and God the same way that the Holy Spirit is God. You are making that up. Again God does not have blood. God is a spirit spirits do not have blood... Men have blood . You need to make up your mind.
The scriptures do say Jesus' Spirit is the Holy Spirit and I have given you those scriptures several times. The Holy Spirit is omnipresent, therefore Jesus is also omnipresent and that is why He says He will come into us and sup with us. I am not making anything up, I am simply following scripture. You are obviously not.
No sir when we receive the HS we are born of God...Did you not read the scriptures that I posted? Here is another one...
John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Of course we are born of God when we receive the Holy Spirit. We are also adopted into the kingdom. The writers use the term adopted to distinguish between our being adopted sons of God and Jesus who is not adopted, but begotten from God.
Sir man is a living soul (body and breath of life)there is no unification with the soul of man , it must be brought under subjection of the spirit of God...
Galatians 5:17
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
The soul is the person of anyone and in order for the soul to ascend into heaven and have eternal life when it is released from the body it must be unified with the Holy Spirit.
Sir Jesus received the HS when he was baptized. There is no scripture saying ...Jesus, who was given life as a man by the Holy Spirit which makes Him God the same way the Holy Spirit is God.
We will have to agree to disagree. You are not co-rdinating the scriptures that show Jesus' life force is the Holy Spirit which would make HIm God the same way the Holy Spirit is God. Jesus was given life in Himself, a quality only God can have. This does not come by receiving the Holy Spirit, it comes by being begotten by the Holy Spirit as the scriptures say Jesus was.
Sir the HS gives us eternal life...Do you have the HS in you and don't have eternal life?
I have the Holy Spirit, but I was not conceived by the Holy Spirit as was Jesus. I was given life by the nashamah, not the Ruach.
I did not mention anything about physically begotten. God is a spirit...Are you begotten of God Yes or No?...
1 Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
My body was not begotten by the Holy Spirit. My soul is begotten or given new life by the Holy Spirit.
God did not call anyone to be a christian
Christians are people who have received Jesus as the Messiah, believe that He died on the cross for their sins and rose from the dead. God called everyone to be saved and those who are saved have been given the name Christian to designate them from people who have not received Jesus.
So why did you bring up physically begotten?
Because you can't tell the distinction the scriptures make between being spiritually begotten and physically begotten.
No you have not...Show me in the scripture where God called you to be a Christian.
God has called everyone to be saved and no one is saved with out faith in Jesus. The early Christians were called Christians to designate them as believers in Jesus.
what rubbish are you spewing ...Jn 15 does not say that.
Are you kidding me? If you can't understand John 15, then you are hopeless. Without Jesus we can do nothing.
The HS is the Spirit of God sir...God gave Jesus the fullness of his spirit.
Yep. Jesus Spirit is God's Spirit, the life in Himself. Jesus is God the same way the Holy Spirit is God.
There is no difference between Jesus' life source and the believers life source...
Then go back and do a word study of how Adam was given life and compare that with how Jesus was given life. You and I were not concieved by the Holy Spirit.
but you just claimed not to be born of God because only Jesus is.
My life source is not the Holy Spirit as it is for Jesus. You are coming across as really dense. I don't mean to be insulting, but in your attempt to try and undermine the scriptures I am giving you, you would be appearing to be so to the people who are reading your responses. You may want to reevaluate your approach.
You are funny, love is the criteria...
1 John 4:20
If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
You can have all the gifts and not love those gifts profit you nothing...1 Cor 13... you should read it
You should practice it.

you said only Jesus is begotten...you are not jesus therefore you are not begotten.
Only Jesus is begotten directly from the Father's Spirit. He is the only begotten Son, because of the origins of His beginning. We are begotten through the Holy Spirit when we receive Jesus. You still seem to be having trouble understanding the difference.
 

Biblican

Well-known member
you are funny ...you are trying to teach a catholic the trinity...
Here is the basis of the trinity...Pay close attention to the red

1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;

2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.

3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;

4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.

5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.

6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.

7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.

8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated.

9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.

10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.

11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.

12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.

13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.

14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.

15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;

16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.

17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord;

18. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord.

19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;

20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords.

21. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.

22. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.

23. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.

24. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.

25. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another.

26. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal.

27. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.

28. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.

29. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.

30. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.

31. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world.

32. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.

33. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood.

34. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ.

35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God.

36. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.

37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;

38. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;

39. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty;

40. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

41. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;

42. and shall give account of their own works.

43. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.

44. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.
You haven't been paying attention. God read my thread again. I don't teach the Trinity the way the Catholics do. Their version isn't taken from Isaiah 42:1. I just stick with scripture.
 

Troy

Member
Whenever the New Testament writers are referring to God the Father, they use the word God. Whenever they are speaking about Jesus, He is referred to as Lord. For example, the Apostle Paul says, “But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by Him” (I Corinthians 8:6).
The counterpart to this in the Old Testament is Psalm 110:1 – The LORD (God the Father) said unto my Lord, ‘You sit at My right hand, until I make your enemies Your footstool.’

So we can see that Jesus is not God the Father, they are two distinct “persons” or souls. Jesus is “God” through His union with God the Father. To understand this concept and what theologians refer to as the “Trinity,” let’s examine Isaiah 42:1. In this reference we see the Three of scripture all in one verse. –

Behold My servant, whom I uphold; My elect, in whom My soul delights; I have put My Spirit upon Him: He shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

God, who is speaking, gives His Holy Spirit to the Messiah. Jesus said, “God is Spirit” (singular – John 4:24). God the Father is one Spirit, which is His substance. Whenever we have God as more than one spirit, we have more than one God and we have jumped over the fence into polytheism.
God the Father is one Spirit and He has a soul or person, which is His being. We saw an example of this in Isaiah 42:1. God’s soul delights in the Messiah. Other examples that show God has a soul/person are found in Jeremiah 6:8, 32:41, Leviticus 26:11 and Psalm 11:5.

So we can conclude from the scriptures that God the Father is two, soul and spirit, without being more than one.

Jesus also said that the Holy Spirit is “the Spirit of the Father” (Matthew 10:20). God directs the operations of His Spirit. –

You send forth Your Spirit, they are created (Psalm 104:30).

In the scriptures the Holy Spirit is likened to the elements of wind, cloud, fire and especially water and the form of it as rain. –

Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: His going forth is prepared as the morning; and He (God the Father) shall come to us as rain, as the latter and former rain to the earth (Hosea 6:3).

The writer makes no distinction between God and the Spirit which is manifesting as rain; God and His Spirit are the same element, or substance.

God is never disconnected from His own Spirit. Therefore in Isaiah 42:1, we see God unifying Himself with the Messiah, making the two one.

Jesus said, “For as the Father has life in Himself: so has He given to the Son to have life in Himself” (John 5:26). To have life in oneself is a quality that only God can have.

This union with the Messiah through the Holy Spirit is the Biblical Trinity. The word “trinity” comes from the Latin word, “trinitas” which means “a union of three.” We clearly see this union taking place in Isaiah 42:1.

We are shown in Leviticus 17:11 that the life of anyone is in the blood. - For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that makes an atonement for the soul. The “life in Himself” that is given to Jesus from the Father is His life source which distinguishes Jesus from Adam and the rest of us. Adam was given life by the “breath” (nashamah in Hebrew), not the Ruach, the Holy Spirit. Jesus was given life by the Ruach, the Holy Spirit. This fact was recognized by the Apostles. – And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening (life giving) spirit (I Corinthians 15:45).

This “life in the blood” of Jesus, which is God’s Holy Spirit, is where Jesus’ deity is found.

As a man, Jesus is constructed as three. He has a body, (compliments of Mary), a begotten or birthed soul/person, and a spirit which animates the body and soul. Jesus’ begotten soul unified with His body makes Him fully human and subject to the desires of the flesh; His soul unified with the Holy Spirit makes Him fully God.

All three, God the Father, the Holy Spirit and Jesus are one through the union of the one Spirit that is God the Father.

The Only Begotten Son

Anyone who is “begotten,” or birthed, must come from a pre-existing substance. Jesus is begotten, not made. In other words, His soul/person was not created out of nothing as was the rest of creation. While Jesus always existed eternally within the Father, there was a specific time in infinity when His soul was brought forth or birthed directly from God’s Spirit or substance. Then everything else was created by God through the Messiah as the scriptures maintain (Colossians 1:16, Ephesians 3:9, Hebrews 1:1.2, John 1:1-3). Thus Jesus is the only begotten Son, which distinguishes Him from the angels, the sons of God (Job 1:6), who were created.

Jesus stated very clearly that He pre-existed in heaven. – For I came down from heaven (John 6:23. See also John 3:13, 6:51, 6:62, 8:23,). Therefore He was God’s firstborn only begotten Son prior to His incarnation, then His previously begotten soul was placed into Mary’s body. The orthodox doctrine of the early church was that Jesus was twice begotten, once prior to His incarnation and then again through Mary.

In order for Jesus’ soul to be the offering for our sins, fulfilling the prophecy in Isaiah 53:10, His soul had to be a district begotten entity from the Father. Therefore we can see the begotten soul of the Messiah being unified with God through His Spirit in Isaiah 42:1.

The New Testament writers clearly recognized that Jesus’ Spirit is the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:9, I Peter 1:11, Galatians 4:6, Philippians 1:19, John 14:18, II Corinthians 3:17,18). That’s why Jesus could say, “I and My Father are one” (John 10:30), they are the same omnipresent Spirit. And that’s also why Jesus could say He would come to us (John 14:18), come into us (Rev. 3:20), and without Him we could do nothing (John 15:5). Therefore because Jesus and God are the same Spirit, it is not idolatry to worship God through the Messiah. That is why the prophet David, who is used as a similitude for the Messiah in the scriptures, is worshipped with God in I Chronicles 29:20 and it is not idolatry.

Because God has designed the Spirit to operate with the soul, like bone and marrow that are two distinct elements that are one, the person of the Holy Spirit is the soul with which it is unified. The person of the Holy Spirit is the person/persons of God the Father and the Messiah Jesus operating as one, as is evident from the scriptures, specifically John 14:16-18 and verse 23. In these verses we see Jesus telling His disciples that the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, will be sent to them. In the same breath Jesus tells them that He will come to them, “I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you” (verse 18). How does the person of Jesus come into the believer? Through the union of His person with His Spirit. In verse 23 we are told that if we love Jesus and obey Him, then we will be indwelt by both the Father and the Messiah Jesus. –“We will come unto him and make our abode with him.” The persons of the Father and the Son can indwell a believer through their souls’ union with the Holy Spirit, which as we have been shown is God’s Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the conduit through which the persons of the Father and the Messiah Jesus operate. Again, all three are distinct from each other, all three operate simultaneously, and all three are inseparably one God, a tri-unity of three – a Trinity.

Amidst all the debate about the Trinity, one vital point is often missed. The entire concept is all about one issue, the salvation of mankind. No one can be saved without the Three: God wills our salvation, Jesus procures it and the Holy Spirit seals it. We saw in Isaiah 42:1 that God’s two of soul and spirit “became” three, a tri-unity, when God unified Himself with His only begotten Son, who was ordained to be the savior of mankind (John 3:16). Therefore, the Trinity is all about salvation, and all about God’s love for you.

In John 20:22, we see Jesus as Creator breathing His Holy Spirit into His disciples. …He breathed on them, and said to them, you receive the Holy Spirit.” The only other time this word breathed is used in the scriptures is when God breathed the breath of life into Adam (Genesis 2:7). Because humans were designed to live on earth, the breath (nashamah) was not made to transport the soul into heaven after the death of the body and the soul is released. Therefore, when we receive the Holy Spirit, it overrides the breath. Our souls are then unified with this Holy Spirit of eternal life that we can receive only through repentance and faith in Jesus’ death and resurrection, God’s plan of redemption that He instigated from the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8). This union of soul with the Lord’s Holy Spirit is what enables our souls to ascend into God’s presence.

So we can see the practical application of why salvation through the Messiah Jesus is so essential. It is only through Him that we can receive the Holy Spirit, the life in His blood. And this is why Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth and the life, no one can come to the Father except by Me” (John 14:6).
This post is a mess of biblical ignorance and an extreme example of eisegesis. I know you probably mean well but you really need to do a whole lot more study before you post something. This is such a misrepresentation of what scripture says.
 

Kampioen

Active member
Yes

because he is not...he has the divine nature in him

The divine nature in Him is the Word. That's why He is the kin-related Son of God.

Jesus died, didn't he?

in other words Jesus died

The kin-related Son of God died, meaning He had the inherited Word from God In Him.

No, I didn't imply any such thing...the conscience is not a man…

Likewise Jesus is not a second God that you accuse.

As a matter of fact, I was relating your position...I believe there is only one God the father... You have a God the father and a God the son I don't.

But not two Gods. God and the kin-related Son of God, the Word in Him making Him part of who God is rather than a second God. A man's conscience is not a second man, correct?

Jesus is the word...You seem to be saying that Jesus is not a person...
1 John 1:1
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

The Word is not a person but a part of who God is. But Jesus the kin-related Son of God is a person, who inherited the Word in Him.

For you maybe...but the scripture refers to Jesus as the word of God...
Revelation 19:13
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Yes.

Then Jesus is not God

That's because Jesus is not God but the kin-related Son of God. …

The non-omniscient flesh subjectively affecting/influencing the experience of the Word speaking. …

That reconciles Luke 1:35 how He is related to God as His Father ie contributing the Word, and Mary as His mother ie contributing human tissue.

… And that He took the form of a man in Php 2 to esteem the Father as greater ...

Philippians 2:3, 5-7 (KJV)
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

No he is not...The word in the flesh is Jesus..

As a whole, yes, the kin-related Son of God. But the Word itself without regard to the flesh is not the born Jesus but what constitutes Jesus.

I don't care what you say at this point...please show me what the scriptures say.

God and the Word are both God (Joh 1:1), correct? There is only one God according to scripture, correct? Thus two that are called God must constitute one God. The conclusion that reconciles Scriptures is the Word is part of who God is.

you are speaking with a forked tongue...show me where the scripture says what you wrote.

The Word is God, correct? Thus that is (ie not the partaking of) the divine nature. Perhaps I should say noncontingent nature.

please show where the scripture says " the word is God"

John 1:1 (KJV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

But 'was' doesn't mean 'no longer is' but "is" God as seen in the beginning. Because God can't cease being God.

The Word "was made" doesn't mean "was turned instead into flesh" but rather living life as a flesh-man.

Jesus being a man was not God, but equal with God, because the Word in Him was God.

John 5:18 (KJV) Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that *God was his Father, making himself equal with God*.

^They understood Jesus as claiming kin-relation to the Father and thus equal with God.

John 10:33 (KJV) The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, *being a man, makest thyself God*.

^They understood this as claiming kin-relation and thus equality with God.

John 10:36 (KJV) Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

^Jesus understood their accusation of a man who is God in vs 33 as meaning the kin-related Son of God.

John 8:58 (KJV) Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, *Before Abraham was, I am*.

^Jesus could just as easily have said before the foundation of the world I Am.

John 19:7 (KJV) The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.

^They understood that God being His Father (kin-related) made Him equal with God.

John 10:42 (KJV) And many believed on him there.

^The people were believing the very things they heard the Pharisees talking against, that Jesus was the kin-related Son of God.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
that is what you are
God calls everyone to salvation. The word Christian simply means "Christ in me." If Christ isn't in you, then you are not a Christian.
You made that up sir...Is that what christians do, make up stories?
The scriptures do say Jesus' Spirit is the Holy Spirit and I have given you those scriptures several times. The Holy Spirit is omnipresent, therefore Jesus is also omnipresent and that is why He says He will come into us and sup with us. I am not making anything up, I am simply following scripture. You are obviously not.
Well duh God gave Jesus his spirit without measure...
John 3:34
For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
Of course we are born of God when we receive the Holy Spirit. We are also adopted into the kingdom. The writers use the term adopted to distinguish between our being adopted sons of God and Jesus who is not adopted, but begotten from God.
You keep putting your foot in your mouth...if we are born of God it means we are begotten of God...
The soul is the person of anyone and in order for the soul to ascend into heaven and have eternal life when it is released from the body it must be unified with the Holy Spirit.
Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. For some reason you refuse to accept the scripture and you keep posting your own opinion of what a soul is..
We will have to agree to disagree. You are not co-rdinating the scriptures that show Jesus' life force is the Holy Spirit which would make HIm God the same way the Holy Spirit is God.
Jesus was alive before he received the HS at his baptism...John testified that he saw the HS descending on Jesus.
Jesus was given life in Himself, a quality only God can have.
You are making that up because God gave jesus a human to have life in himself...so a man can have life in fimself...believers also have life in themselves...
1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
This does not come by receiving the Holy Spirit, it comes by being begotten by the Holy Spirit as the scriptures say Jesus was.
Sir you cannot be begotten by the HS if you don't receive the HS...God does not force himself on anyone...One must be open to receive him
I have the Holy Spirit, but I was not conceived by the Holy Spirit as was Jesus. I was given life by the nashamah, not the Ruach.
Sir if you were born with the nashamah and you were born again by the Ruach, would you say you have the Ruach in you. How does that not make Jesus your brother...
Hebrews 2:11
For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
My body was not begotten by the Holy Spirit. My soul is begotten or given new life by the Holy Spirit.
I never said anything about your body being begotten by the HS
Christians are people who have received Jesus as the Messiah, believe that He died on the cross for their sins and rose from the dead.
That would be saints sir...the apostles wrote all the epistles to the saints. None was written ti Christians...

God called everyone to be saved and those who are saved have been given the name Christian to designate them from people who have not received Jesus.
You have been fooled sir...Jesus was not an Englisgman..the word Christ came into existence when the Greek was translated to English.
Because you can't tell the distinction the scriptures make between being spiritually begotten and physically begotten.
You can't tell the distinction in the scriptures that it was translated into English thousands of years after Jesus died before which the word Jesus and Christ did not exist. I suppose in your mind the apostles all had English names
God has called everyone to be saved and no one is saved with out faith in Jesus. The early Christians were called Christians to designate them as believers in Jesus.
Sis back in those days the words Jesus and Christians did not exist.
Are you kidding me? If you can't understand John 15, then you are hopeless. Without Jesus we can do nothing.
I was referring to this sir...The fruits of the Spirit are produced by the Father through the Son with the Son's Holy Spirit.
Yep. Jesus Spirit is God's Spirit, the life in Himself. Jesus is God the same way the Holy Spirit is God.
So where does the scripture say that sir?
Then go back and do a word study of how Adam was given life and compare that with how Jesus was given life. You and I were not concieved by the Holy Spirit.
I posted it to you, here it is again...
Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
About us I am referring to being born again...You seem to have an understanding problem...
My life source is not the Holy Spirit as it is for Jesus.
Then you are not born again...Your life source changes when you are born again...
Rom 6
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
You are coming across as really dense. I don't mean to be insulting, but in your attempt to try and undermine the scriptures I am giving you, you would be appearing to be so to the people who are reading your responses. You may want to reevaluate your approach.
What scriptures have you given? I keep masking you to post the scripture to support what you are saying but you don't post any...
You should practice it.
I am, but you wouldn't know...
Only Jesus is begotten directly from the Father's Spirit. He is the only begotten Son, because of the origins of His beginning. We are begotten through the Holy Spirit when we receive Jesus. You still seem to be having trouble understanding the difference.
Sir, Jesus was born just like you and I were... Jesus received the HS after he was baptized, we receive the HS after we are baptized... what is the difference?
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
that is what you are

You made that up sir...Is that what christians do, make up stories?

Well duh God gave Jesus his spirit without measure...
John 3:34
For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

You keep putting your foot in your mouth...if we are born of God it means we are begotten of God...

Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. For some reason you refuse to accept the scripture and you keep posting your own opinion of what a soul is..

Jesus was alive before he received the HS at his baptism...John testified that he saw the HS descending on Jesus.

You are making that up because God gave jesus a human to have life in himself...so a man can have life in fimself...believers also have life in themselves...
1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Sir you cannot be begotten by the HS if you don't receive the HS...God does not force himself on anyone...One must be open to receive him

Sir if you were born with the nashamah and you were born again by the Ruach, would you say you have the Ruach in you. How does that not make Jesus your brother...
Hebrews 2:11
For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

I never said anything about your body being begotten by the HS

That would be saints sir...the apostles wrote all the epistles to the saints. None was written ti Christians...


You have been fooled sir...Jesus was not an Englisgman..the word Christ came into existence when the Greek was translated to English.

You can't tell the distinction in the scriptures that it was translated into English thousands of years after Jesus died before which the word Jesus and Christ did not exist. I suppose in your mind the apostles all had English names

Sis back in those days the words Jesus and Christians did not exist.

I was referring to this sir...The fruits of the Spirit are produced by the Father through the Son with the Son's Holy Spirit.

So where does the scripture say that sir?

I posted it to you, here it is again...
Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
About us I am referring to being born again...You seem to have an understanding problem...

Then you are not born again...Your life source changes when you are born again...
Rom 6
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

What scriptures have you given? I keep masking you to post the scripture to support what you are saying but you don't post any...

I am, but you wouldn't know...

Sir, Jesus was born just like you and I were... Jesus received the HS after he was baptized, we receive the HS after we are baptized... what is the difference?
That He was BORN THE Son of God.
We were NOT.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
That He was BORN THE Son of God.
We were NOT.
we are born again sons of God...
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

See here John says we are born of God... Are you born of God or are you born of the trinity?
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
we are born again sons of God...
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

See here John says we are born of God... Are you born of God or are you born of the trinity?
Jesus Christ is NOT a born again son of God.
We ARE.
Next..................
 
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