Is Jesus the creator?

Then in the only other spot in the NT where God is called HoTheos and another plain Theos in the same paragraph, a small g god is given at 2 Cor 4:4, but not at John 1:1 when the same occurs? Translating works the same at both spots-0 doubt.

No NT author wrote with a mixture of uppercase and lowercase letters like you have in your modern English translation. This convention was added by translators according to their own judgments.
 
No NT author wrote with a mixture of uppercase and lowercase letters like you have in your modern English translation. This convention was added by translators according to their own judgments.
Twisting it does not change that translating works the same at both spots.
 
Collosians 1 speaks about the beginning creation. verse15--Jesus is the FIRSTBORN of all creation( created direct, first and last)--100% proof it speaks of the beginning creation. Verse 16= Because by means of him( Jesus)all( other) things were created in the heavens and upon the earth( proof its about the beginning, and not born as a mortal as blind guides say) the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or govts or authorities . ALL ( other) things have been created through him and for him. --- See the words-through him? That means one greater than him did the creating through him. At Proverbs 8= Gods master worker=Jesus, he gives all credit to God for the creation at Prov 8. Tells all he was created( Prov 8:22-25)-- Will you believe Jesus over these-2Cor 11:12-15?

That's correct. Most translations don't make this intuitive because many try to deify Yeshua, but aside from all of the proofs you gave, the gospels bend over backwards to make it clear that he was begotten. He had a beginning point, has a birthday, etc.

You can also use Hebrews 1:1,2 to supplement your point as well, but you have to make sure you use the right version since most of them are deliberately altered to say God made the world or universe through Christ. That's wrong, God made the ages through Christ.

Hebrews 1 (REV)
1 God, having spoken from old time to the fathers through the prophets in many parts and in many ways,
2 has at the end of these days spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he has given form to the ages,

It refers to creating the church age through Christ. As far as I can tell, that's the only sense Christ was instrumental in anything that was created.

p.s. - I included a link to the REV Bible. Outstanding version. It was translated by Unitarians unlike most Bibles that were translated by Trinitarians.
 
That's correct. Most translations don't make this intuitive because many try to deify Yeshua, but aside from all of the proofs you gave, the gospels bend over backwards to make it clear that he was begotten. He had a beginning point, has a birthday, etc.

You can also use Hebrews 1:1,2 to supplement your point as well, but you have to make sure you use the right version since most of them are deliberately altered to say God made the world or universe through Christ. That's wrong, God made the ages through Christ.

Hebrews 1 (REV)
1 God, having spoken from old time to the fathers through the prophets in many parts and in many ways,
2 has at the end of these days spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he has given form to the ages,

It refers to creating the church age through Christ. As far as I can tell, that's the only sense Christ was instrumental in anything that was created.

Same thing here:

He raised him from the dead and seated him at His right hand in the heavenlies 21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. Eph 1

and here:

so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenlies 11 according to the purpose of the ages which He makes in Christ Jesus our Lord Eph 2:10-11

in these last days has spoken to us in a Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He makes the ages.

Same thing.

Both Hebrews 1:2 and Col 1:16 are referring to what God does through the risen Christ.
 
Then you would have to teach that satan is the true God at 2 Cor 4:4
No, I would read it in the context of the monotheism stated throughout the Bible from beginning to end, along with the context of Christ being King of all kings and understand "god of this age" as either a euphemism. or a reference to Isaiah 6:9 (Dt. 29:4; Mt. 13:14; Mk. 4:12; Lk. 8:10; Jn. 12:40; Acts 28:26; Rom. 11:8), knowing it is God who blinds, and it is God who is God of all ages so satan cannot do anything to anyone unless God permits him to do so.
 
That's correct. Most translations don't make this intuitive because many try to deify Yeshua, but aside from all of the proofs you gave, the gospels bend over backwards to make it clear that he was begotten. He had a beginning point, has a birthday, etc.

You can also use Hebrews 1:1,2 to supplement your point as well, but you have to make sure you use the right version since most of them are deliberately altered to say God made the world or universe through Christ. That's wrong, God made the ages through Christ.

Hebrews 1 (REV)
1 God, having spoken from old time to the fathers through the prophets in many parts and in many ways,
2 has at the end of these days spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he has given form to the ages,

It refers to creating the church age through Christ. As far as I can tell, that's the only sense Christ was instrumental in anything that was created.

p.s. - I included a link to the REV Bible. Outstanding version. It was translated by Unitarians unlike most Bibles that were translated by Trinitarians.

Catholicism translated many errors in to fit their false council teachings by satans will to mislead. God did create all other things through Jesus but created Jesus direct-first and last.
 
No, I would read it in the context of the monotheism stated throughout the Bible from beginning to end, along with the context of Christ being King of all kings and understand "god of this age" as either a euphemism. or a reference to Isaiah 6:9 (Dt. 29:4; Mt. 13:14; Mk. 4:12; Lk. 8:10; Jn. 12:40; Acts 28:26; Rom. 11:8), knowing it is God who blinds, and it is God who is God of all ages so satan cannot do anything to anyone unless God permits him to do so.
Jesus was appointed king of Gods kingdom( Daniel 7:13-15) YHWH(Jehovah)was already king-1Chron 16:31--proving Jesus is not YHWH or he already would have been king.
It is satan who is blinding the unbelievers, like this-2 Cor 11:12-15)
 
Plain Theos is found at 2 Cor 4:4- Satan is the god of this system. Ho Theos mentioned after that to the true God.

Here's the verse. Show us where.

ἐν οἷς ὁ θεὸς τοῦ αἰῶνος τούτου ἐτύφλωσεν τὰ νοήματα τῶν ἀπίστων εἰς τὸ μὴ αὐγάσαι τὸν φωτισμὸν τοῦ εὐαγγελίου τῆς δόξης τοῦ Χριστοῦ, ὅς ἐστιν εἰκὼν τοῦ θεοῦ

And tell us why it is "plain theos."
 
Here's the verse. Show us where.

ἐν οἷς ὁ θεὸς τοῦ αἰῶνος τούτου ἐτύφλωσεν τὰ νοήματα τῶν ἀπίστων εἰς τὸ μὴ αὐγάσαι τὸν φωτισμὸν τοῦ εὐαγγελίου τῆς δόξης τοῦ Χριστοῦ, ὅς ἐστιν εἰκὼν τοῦ θεοῦ

And tell us why it is "plain theos."
You can see the difference yourself. Its the same at John 1:1
 
You can see the difference yourself. Its the same at John 1:1

What difference? 2 Corinthians 4:4 says ho theos "THE theos of the system." It has the article but John 1:1c does not.

It is quite clear that you have no clue as to what you are doing. You shouldn't pretend that you do.
 
Collosians 1 speaks about the beginning creation. verse15--Jesus is the FIRSTBORN of all creation( created direct, first and last)--100% proof it speaks of the beginning creation. Verse 16= Because by means of him( Jesus)all( other) things were created in the heavens and upon the earth( proof its about the beginning, and not born as a mortal as blind guides say) the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or govts or authorities . ALL ( other) things have been created through him and for him. --- See the words-through him? That means one greater than him did the creating through him. At Proverbs 8= Gods master worker=Jesus, he gives all credit to God for the creation at Prov 8. Tells all he was created( Prov 8:22-25)-- Will you believe Jesus over these-2Cor 11:12-15?


Why does it say "in him?' And, created "through him?" Why not simply say, He created all things?


The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were
created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or
authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in
him all things hold together."
Col 1:15-17

Why does it say created "in him?' And, created "through him?"
Because...

God as a Trinity created all things. Jesus did not create all things solo.

It was agreed upon by the Trinity that all that the Trinity was to create had to first meet the criterion of being relatable to a man!
So the responsibility as to how all things were to be created were handed over to the omni-creative thinking of the Son.

To make all things created to be relatable to man? All things created had to be created in Him and through Him!
For He is both Deity and Soul in hypostatic union!

The Lord was to be God's production standard as to determine the criterion for how all things created were to be created!

In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and earth. Elohim = God = plurality. Trinity.

grace and peace .............
 


Why does it say "in him?' And, created "through him?" Why not simply say, He created all things?


The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were
created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or
authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in
him all things hold together." Col 1:15-17

Why does it say created "in him?' And, created "through him?"
Because...

God as a Trinity created all things. Jesus did not create all things solo.

It was agreed upon by the Trinity that all that the Trinity was to create had to first meet the criterion of being relatable to a man!
So the responsibility as to how all things were to be created were handed over to the omni-creative thinking of the Son.

To make all things created to be relatable to man? All things created had to be created in Him and through Him!
For He is both Deity and Soul in hypostatic union!

The Lord was to be God's production standard as to determine the criterion for how all things created were to be created!

In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and earth. Elohim = God = plurality. Trinity.

grace and peace .............
Elohim is not plural for the true God in the Hebrew language--look it up. It translates-The supreme one or the mighty one.
As well in the OT it says--I am YHWH(Jehovah) beside me( not we) there is no other God.
 
Elohim is not plural for the true God in the Hebrew language--look it up.

Yes it is a plural word.

You are confused. It is a plural word but that doesn't necessarily mean God is multiple persons. The Hebrews used pluralization for other reasons.

In Hebrew, they would refer to a man with a pluralized title like Adonim (Lit. Lords). It did not mean he was plural persons. Rather it had an honorific purpose of referring to the man in the sense of he himself and all his possessions.

It translates-The supreme one or the mighty one.
As well in the OT it says--I am YHWH(Jehovah) beside me( not we) there is no other God.
 
Elohim is not plural for the true God in the Hebrew language--look it up. It translates-The supreme one or the mighty one.
As well in the OT it says--I am YHWH(Jehovah) beside me( not we) there is no other God.

If one does not believe in the Trinity the translation can become changed. Jews today have been conditioned to reject the Trinity of God.
How some decided to translate Elohim does not automatically correlate with what the Hebrew word actually says.
Confusion found in interpretation played a part in how was translated.

Another word mistranslated singular is what the Lord breathed into the nostrils of Adam's body.
It was not the breath of life, but breath of "lives."
https://hermeneutics.stackexchange....-27-read-חַיִּ֑ים-plural-rather-than-singular

But? Because translators can not make sense of breath of lives? It gets translated most of the time as if it were in the singular.

Genesis 2:7 says that the man became a 'living soul.' Why a living soul? because the Lord breathed not only Adam's soul into the nostrils, but also giving Adam a human spirit. "Lives."

For unregenerate man is only soul and body.

When a person is regenerated he becomes body, soul, and human spirit! We then become a LIVING soul!
The unregenerated man is spiritually dead! Hence... "Let the dead bury their own dead." [Luke 9:60]

Adam having been created sinless? Was created spiritually alive! Having body, soul, and human spirit.
And, tthat is why that Hebrew says 'breath of lives!" Soul life, and spiritual life!

That its why it says Adam became a living soul!

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils
the breath of life (lives); and man became a living soul."
(spiritually alive!)


grace and peace ....................
 
The God of Jesus created all things. His God is the only one there is and his God was not a three person being.

Yeshua said he has a God, called Him Father, quoted words from Him in the Old Testament, and received fresh revelation. Stands to reason that where God is mentioned then it's a reference to our Lord's God. Since he said his God is the one and only true God, it seems pretty concusive. Your screen name is always a good reminder of that.
 
Yes it is a plural word.

You are confused. It is a plural word but that doesn't necessarily mean God is multiple persons. The Hebrews used pluralization for other reasons.

In Hebrew, they would refer to a man with a pluralized title like Adonim (Lit. Lords). It did not mean he was plural persons. Rather it had an honorific purpose of referring to the man in the sense of he himself and all his possessions.
Not for the true God in the Hebrew language. That is a fact of life.
 
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