Is Messianic Judaism a Judiasm.

Open Heart

Open Heart

Well-known member
The answer is a resounding no. Messianic Judaism is Christianity, and faces ethical criticism for lying about this.

Not only does Messianic Judaism believe that Jesus is the messiah and that he died for sins, which is the core of Christian belief, it also accepts that Jesus is God -- that is something utterly blasphemous to Jews. It also accept the New Testament, which is not part of the Jewish canon, but of the Chrsitian canon.

On the flip side, the things that are core to Judaism is Torah and Talmud. If a religion has no place for Torah and Talmud, they are not Judaism. With very few exceptions, most MJ congregations are "Bible Only" -- they are obvious spinoffs of Protestant Christianity.

MJ's need to be honest. Lying and saying you are a Judaism just takes away from your credibility.
 
Well that's settles it.I thought Isaiah was a Christian and you've convinced me 100 percent he is.

Isaiah 53
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
 
Open Heart said:
The answer is a resounding no. Messianic Judaism is Christianity, and faces ethical criticism for lying about this.

Not only does Messianic Judaism believe that Jesus is the messiah and that he died for sins, which is the core of Christian belief, it also accepts that Jesus is God -- that is something utterly blasphemous to Jews. It also accept the New Testament, which is not part of the Jewish canon, but of the Chrsitian canon.

On the flip side, the things that are core to Judaism is Torah and Talmud. If a religion has no place for Torah and Talmud, they are not Judaism. With very few exceptions, most MJ congregations are "Bible Only" -- they are obvious spinoffs of Protestant Christianity.

MJ's need to be honest. Lying and saying you are a Judaism just takes away from your credibility.
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Honestly, you are the only person I've ever heard say that MJ is a Judaism.
I feel that my religion - Church of God 7th Day, is closer to being a Judaism than MJ.
 
Shilohsfoal said:
Well that's settles it.I thought Isaiah was a Christian and you've convinced me 100 percent he is.

Isaiah 53
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
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If you knew anything at all about real Judaism, you would know that we do not consider Isaiah 53 to be a messianic passage. The servant is Israel.
 
Rachel Redux said:
Honestly, you are the only person I've ever heard say that MJ is a Judaism.
I feel that my religion - Church of God 7th Day, is closer to being a Judaism than MJ.
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I beg your pardon. I said exactly the opposite, the MJ is NOT a Judaism. They should call it Messianic Christianity, not Messianic Judaism.
 
Open Heart said:
I beg your pardon. I said exactly the opposite, the MJ is NOT a Judaism. They should call it Messianic Christianity, not Messianic Judaism.
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Oh, no, no, no.....I beg your pardon. When you were a Catholic/Jewish/whatever, you said MJ was a Judaism.
 
Open Heart said:
If you knew anything at all about real Judaism, you would know that we do not consider Isaiah 53 to be a messianic passage. The servant is Israel.
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I've seen in scripture where Messiah had been called Israel before.The nation of Israel isn't a person who had died for the sins of many though.Isaiah 53 is talking about one person .

Isaiah 53
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
 
Shilohsfoal said:
I've seen in scripture where Messiah had been called Israel before.The nation of Israel isn't a person who had died for the sins of many though.Isaiah 53 is talking about one person .

Isaiah 53
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
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Isaiah 53 is not about the messiah.
 
Open Heart said:
Isaiah 53 is not about the messiah.
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Yes ,it is.
When I believed and made his soul an offering for sin,I recieved the holy spirit which testifies of him.Those of us who have received the holy spirit know .Those who disbelieve or don't know don't receive.They are left with no offering for sin.God had destroyed their temple and taken away all they offered and placed a dome on it so they could not return to their former ways.We have a far greater covenant now.He is in us.And those who have rejected the Messiah die in their sin never knowing the joy of God in us.


Isaiah 53
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
 
Shilohsfoal said:
Yes ,it is.
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You can insist all you want, and quote as many verses as you wish. It won't change the truth. The servant in Isaiah 53 is Israel.
Isaiah 41:8
“But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, you descendants of Abraham my friend,
 
Open Heart said:
You can insist all you want, and quote as many verses as you wish. It won't change the truth. The servant in Isaiah 53 is Israel.
Isaiah 41:8
“But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, you descendants of Abraham my friend,
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Only one brought good tidings.
That is Messiah

Isaiah 41
27 The first shall say to Zion, Behold, behold them: and I will give to Jerusalem one that bringeth good tidings.

28 For I beheld, and there was no man; even among them, and there was no counsellor, that, when I asked of them, could answer a word.

29 Behold, they are all vanity; their works are nothing: their molten images are wind and confusion.


You can insist all you want.You can't change the truth.
Your temple is destroyed.God has destroyed it and placed a dome there so that you can't return to the former things.
All your prophets have been cut off and now you are left alone.
 
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Shilohsfoal said:
Your temple is destroyed.God has destroyed it and placed a dome there so that you can't return to the former things.
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People thought that Jews would never return to the Promised Land too, but after 2000 years, we did. The temple will be rebuilt. Sacrifices will resume.
 
Open Heart said:
People thought that Jews would never return to the Promised Land too, but after 2000 years, we did. The temple will be rebuilt. Sacrifices will resume.
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No.It still hasn't quite learned it's lesson.
Another Hitler will arise and destroy that little kingdom again.A Persian and ten nations with him.The Israeli goverment and all who worship it will be destroyed.

Only the remnant in Christ will survive.
The land will then be given to the saints of the most high,as an everlasting possession.Never again will it be destroyed .Messiah will then reign over his kingdom and the remnant who followed him will rule the nations.
 
Open Heart said:
It almost sounds like this is what you want, is what you are hoping for.
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It's the word of God.If you believed the Messiah,you would know and understand the abominations they will be commiting in Israel .Messiah is the one with the writers inkhorn.
Ezekiel
9 He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand.

2 And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar.

3 And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;

4 And the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:

6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.

7 And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.

8 And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord God! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?

9 Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of perverseness: for they say, The Lord hath forsaken the earth, and the Lord seeth not.

10 And as for me also, mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity, but I will recompense their way upon their head.

11 And, behold, the man clothed with linen, which had the inkhorn by his side, reported the matter, saying, I have done as thou hast commanded me.


Of course you will read,but you don't believe this will ever happen.It will be the worst tribulation the nation of Israel has ever seen or shall ever see again.
 
Shilohsfoal said:
It's the word of God.If you believed the Messiah,you would know and understand the abominations they will be commiting in Israel .Messiah is the one with the writers inkhorn.
Ezekiel
9 He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand.

2 And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar.

3 And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;

4 And the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:

6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.

7 And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.

8 And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord God! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?

9 Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of perverseness: for they say, The Lord hath forsaken the earth, and the Lord seeth not.

10 And as for me also, mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity, but I will recompense their way upon their head.

11 And, behold, the man clothed with linen, which had the inkhorn by his side, reported the matter, saying, I have done as thou hast commanded me.


Of course you will read,but you don't believe this will ever happen.It will be the worst tribulation the nation of Israel has ever seen or shall ever see again.
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Oh, I think the messiah will come some day. But Jesus simply didn't fulfill the prophecies, so it's not him.

Not sure why you are quoting the above -- it has nothing to do with the messiah.

I'm gonna let you go, since your replies don't really respond to what I've said. It's not much of a conversation.
 
Open Heart said:
Oh, I think the messiah will come some day. But Jesus simply didn't fulfill the prophecies, so it's not him.

Not sure why you are quoting the above -- it has nothing to do with the messiah.

I'm gonna let you go, since your replies don't really respond to what I've said. It's not much of a conversation.
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Oh,it has everything to do with Messiah.But because you have rejected Messiah,you don't comprehend.

Hosea 4:6
my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge. “Because you have rejected knowledge, I also reject you as my priests; because you have ignored the law of your God, I also will ignore your children.
 
Open Heart said:
People thought that Jews would never return to the Promised Land too, but after 2000 years, we did. The temple will be rebuilt. Sacrifices will resume.
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The Hebrew scripture does not mention Polish people. According to history, the Judeans got rebranded into Palestinians.

Are the Polish going to tear down 2000 year old Roman ruins in Palestine to rebuild the Achaemenian treasure from the Book of Ezra.
 
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