Is one's eternal destiny fixed at death or at the judgment?

My theory: since the Bible clearly teaches that 1) there will be judgment of the living and the dead at the end of the age, and 2) the "end of the age" hasn't happened yet, then it follows that 3) the eternal destiny of everyone who has ever lived, whether living or dead, is not fixed right now.

If this theory is true, then my second theory would seem to logically follow: this opens up the possibility of someone presently in sheol or hades being able to repent and turn to Christ, and have the course of their existence changed. It also opens up the possibility that someone presently in heaven might (however unlikely) be able to reject Christ and have the course of their existence changed.

Convince me I'm wrong.
 
I see "It is appointed unto a man once to die, and after this comes judgment." What else aside from this verse can anyone show me to convince me I'm wrong?
 

Bob Carabbio

Active member
My theory: since the Bible clearly teaches that 1) there will be judgment of the living and the dead at the end of the age, and 2) the "end of the age" hasn't happened yet, then it follows that 3) the eternal destiny of everyone who has ever lived, whether living or dead, is not fixed right now.

If this theory is true, then my second theory would seem to logically follow: this opens up the possibility of someone presently in sheol or hades being able to repent and turn to Christ, and have the course of their existence changed. It also opens up the possibility that someone presently in heaven might (however unlikely) be able to reject Christ and have the course of their existence changed.

Convince me I'm wrong.
That would be the Roman Catholic "Fervent Hope", that their phony "Purgatory" fantasy will get 'em "in" after the fact. It's satan's best joke on humanity - imagine the distress when "Purgatory" turns out to be HELL, and they're NEVER getting out.

Of course there ARE TWO JUDGMENTS indicated in the Bible. There's the Judgement of the "Sheep, and the Goats" where those written in the Book of life will go to be with HIM, and those who aren't, go to the lake of fire, along with satan and his crew. The OTHER Judgement is the judgement of REWARD where CHristians will be rewarded in some way based on what the did with what they were given, andbut ALL of them are Saved and heaven bound.

Convince you???? Probably not. It's the Holy SPirit's place to CONVINCE you of SIN, and of Judgement. But since you're WRONG, it'd be a good idea to Seek the Lord NOW - while he can yet be found.
 
My understanding of purgatory is that it follows from the RCC belief that sins need to be atoned for in the next life by the sinner regardless of what Christ has done, or that the sufferings of purgatory have a purifying effect. That's beyond the scope of my question (and it's not what I believe).
 

CrowCross

Active member
My theory: since the Bible clearly teaches that 1) there will be judgment of the living and the dead at the end of the age, and 2) the "end of the age" hasn't happened yet, then it follows that 3) the eternal destiny of everyone who has ever lived, whether living or dead, is not fixed right now.

If this theory is true, then my second theory would seem to logically follow: this opens up the possibility of someone presently in sheol or hades being able to repent and turn to Christ, and have the course of their existence changed. It also opens up the possibility that someone presently in heaven might (however unlikely) be able to reject Christ and have the course of their existence changed.

Convince me I'm wrong.
John 6:65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
 

civic

Active member
My theory: since the Bible clearly teaches that 1) there will be judgment of the living and the dead at the end of the age, and 2) the "end of the age" hasn't happened yet, then it follows that 3) the eternal destiny of everyone who has ever lived, whether living or dead, is not fixed right now.

If this theory is true, then my second theory would seem to logically follow: this opens up the possibility of someone presently in sheol or hades being able to repent and turn to Christ, and have the course of their existence changed. It also opens up the possibility that someone presently in heaven might (however unlikely) be able to reject Christ and have the course of their existence changed.

Convince me I'm wrong.

John 1:12-13
Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

John 15:16
You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you

Rom 8:29-30
For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Rom 9:11-17
Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad — in order that God's purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls — she was told, "The older will serve the younger." 13 Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."
14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,
"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."
16 It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.

Eph 1:5
In love 5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—

Eph 1:11
In him we were also chosen, having been predestined
according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,

hope this helps !!!
 

4Him

Administrator
Staff member
Except predestination has everything to do with one's eternal destiny.
I won't get into the weeds on predestination since it's beyond the scope of my original question. Why isn't it possible that an elect person could die without having ever repented, end up separated from God, and then repent in hell and end up receiving mercy at the judgment?
 

4Him

Administrator
Staff member
I won't get into the weeds on predestination since it's beyond the scope of my original question. Why isn't it possible that an elect person could die without having ever repented, end up separated from God, and then repent in hell and end up receiving mercy at the judgment?
Never.
 

UncleAbee

Member
I won't get into the weeds on predestination since it's beyond the scope of my original question. Why isn't it possible that an elect person could die without having ever repented, end up separated from God, and then repent in hell and end up receiving mercy at the judgment?
Many use the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31) to refute this idea. The rich man died and actually did not go to Hell but rather Hades. Hades is a holding place for the doomed until the judgment. There was no 2nd chance for the rich man.
 

civic

Active member
I won't get into the weeds on predestination since it's beyond the scope of my original question. Why isn't it possible that an elect person could die without having ever repented, end up separated from God, and then repent in hell and end up receiving mercy at the judgment?
Scripture emphatically declares:

"Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment"

and

"and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment."


No 2nd chances!

hope this helps !!!
 

e v e

Active member
Except predestination has everything to do with one's eternal destiny.
not your fault, but it’s a pagan greek idea introduced to christianity, early on, having mixed elements of each greek and the christian view.
 

4Him

Administrator
Staff member
not your fault, but it’s a pagan greek idea introduced to christianity, early on, having mixed elements of each greek and the christian view.
I’m sure that’s what you think. I’m betting you don’t know what you’re talking about.
 

e v e

Active member
The point is that i am right, and i know exactly how and why, and your saying otherwise doesn’t bother me at all.
 

4Him

Administrator
Staff member
The point is that i am right, and i know exactly how and why, and your saying otherwise doesn’t bother me at all.
I know you’re wrong, and I know exactly why, and your saying otherwise doesn’t bother me at all.
 

e v e

Active member
I know you’re wrong, and I know exactly why, and your saying otherwise doesn’t bother me at all.
so you can memorize and repeat.

Look, i’m sorry it’s upsetting but the concept has been messed up for centuries, not my fault esau was hard at working mixing up theology. A soul has a future and God knows it but he does not control or will a soul to come to Him without the soul wanting to, and choosing. Even though who He wants will. And there is a reason for that.... a reason why those specific souls. But, jingles like predestination do not help understand that topic.

however helpless we are, we can choose even if it’s only the tiniest choice... the same way adam chose to betray Him, which God did Not want him to do yet adam sinned. a choice. If he did not choose to, how ridiculous to have to repent. only a soul who understands can repent.
 
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