Is one's eternal destiny fixed at death or at the judgment?

CrowCross

Well-known member
Your point is exactly correct.

Well, I'm one of those amillennialist who believes that the rapture will be on the last day, but there's still gonna be a rapture.
I believe in a pre-trib rapture.

Isn't the marriage supper of the lamb (Rev 19:9) prior to the second coming? Rev 19:11

I believe Jesus comes back for the church in the way he left..rapture...then again on a white horse and actually stands on the earth. Then again I can't be dogmatic about it.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
I believe in a pre-trib rapture.

Isn't the marriage supper of the lamb (Rev 19:9) prior to the second coming? Rev 19:11

I believe Jesus comes back for the church in the way he left..rapture...then again on a white horse and actually stands on the earth. Then again I can't be dogmatic about it.
I just read 18, 19 and 20 again to get a baseline for your question above and frankly I don't know to what extent the conversation is about these topics, or in each case chronological. In some instances there are words indicating this follows that, but like you say, I have a hard time being dogmatic about this too. The thing that I find interesting is that revelation means unveiling, so John intended it to be clear. And for all I know to the first readers it may have been as clear as a bell.
 

Alejandro

New Member
I think there is a bible verse that gives us light on this: John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned; but he who does not believe, he has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Clearly Jesus is teaching that those who have not believed in him are already condemned, they will go to the Ades to await the final judgment, but their sentence was declared since they decided to deny Jesus.
 
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Truth7t7

Active member
Pienso que hay un verso de la biblia que nos da luz con respecto a esto:
Juan 3:18 El que en él cree, no es condenado; pero el que no cree, ya ha sido condenado, porque no ha creído en el nombre del unigénito Hijo de Dios.
Claramente jesus esta enseñando que aquellos que no han creido en el, ya estan condenados, ellos irán al ades a esperar el jucio final, pero su sentencia fue declara desde que decidieron negar a jesus.
Se Habla English
 

CrowCross

Well-known member
I just read 18, 19 and 20 again to get a baseline for your question above and frankly I don't know to what extent the conversation is about these topics, or in each case chronological. In some instances there are words indicating this follows that, but like you say, I have a hard time being dogmatic about this too. The thing that I find interesting is that revelation means unveiling, so John intended it to be clear. And for all I know to the first readers it may have been as clear as a bell.
I would imagine there is much a "first reader" would understand that we don't. Then again we can understand how a one world government can come about and what is required for a system that will prevent you from selling and buying...we now have that kind of technology.

Like you I too are not dogmatic and understand I don't have my eschatology 100% correct. But, the more I study I land on pre-trib rapture. This also fits in well with the Jewish wedding feast where they payed a dowry or bride price to the father..then went to build a house...then unexpectantly came for the bride....take her home..then have a wedding feast.
 

Truth7t7

Active member
I would imagine there is much a "first reader" would understand that we don't. Then again we can understand how a one world government can come about and what is required for a system that will prevent you from selling and buying...we now have that kind of technology.

Like you I too are not dogmatic and understand I don't have my eschatology 100% correct. But, the more I study I land on pre-trib rapture. This also fits in well with the Jewish wedding feast where they payed a dowry or bride price to the father..then went to build a house...then unexpectantly came for the bride....take her home..then have a wedding feast.
The Church will be present on earth to witness the great tribulation, and second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens, just as Luke 21:25-28 "Clearly" teaches below, there will be no pre-trib rapture as dispensationalism falsely teaches

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh
.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
My theory: since the Bible clearly teaches that 1) there will be judgment of the living and the dead at the end of the age, and 2) the "end of the age" hasn't happened yet, then it follows that 3) the eternal destiny of everyone who has ever lived, whether living or dead, is not fixed right now.

If this theory is true, then my second theory would seem to logically follow: this opens up the possibility of someone presently in sheol or hades being able to repent and turn to Christ, and have the course of their existence changed. It also opens up the possibility that someone presently in heaven might (however unlikely) be able to reject Christ and have the course of their existence changed.

Convince me I'm wrong.
You just convinced us you're wrong by finishing your post with the statement, "convince me I'm wrong."

You never want to use that statement. This isn't a TV commercial, or Facebook post.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
You just convinced us you're wrong by finishing your post with the statement, "convince me I'm wrong."

You never want to use that statement. This isn't a TV commercial, or Facebook post.
I try to be informed by the fact that the word "skat" seems to be in the word eschatological if you pronounce it right.
 
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