Is Pre-mortality part of "the Gospel"?

Greetings again brotherofJared,
I don't need to. It's irrelevant to the argument. In order for Jesus to be human, both parents must be human. That logic stipulates that whatever you being up that identifies who the father is, that being is human. Period.
Matthew 1:20–21 (KJV): 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Luke 1:34–35 (KJV): 34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Start another thread. This one has nothing to do with pre-mortality
No thanks, I have had sufficient interaction with you individually and it appears that Mormons in general do not care if their views contradict the Bible.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
I don't need to. It's irrelevant to the argument. In order for Jesus to be human, both parents must be human. That logic stipulates that whatever you being up that identifies who the father is, that being is human. Period.
Can humans raise the dead and walk on water?
 
If you don't endure to the end, your left with faith alone....and faith without works (enduring or continuing) is dead (lost or separated from God)

Spiritual death is to be "cut off from the presence of the Lord," the phrase used repeatedly in the scriptures to define the term (2 Nephi 9:6; Alma 42:9; Helaman 14:16). Being cut off from the Lord's presence can mean being actually separated from God himself or being alienated from God's ways through a sinful lifestyle (to "die as to things pertaining unto righteousness"; Alma 12:16, 32; 40:26).
Once again....mormons work to save their butts...Christians work because of their salvation. (to glorify God0

Of course when one looks at enduring...the question is, endures to the end of what? Is saved from what?
That verse pertains to a tribulation....you have taken it out of context.

Secondly, I don't really need some ex-tra biblical books that tell me someone can snatch me out of the Fathers Jesus hands.
 
I don't need to. It's irrelevant to the argument. In order for Jesus to be human, both parents must be human. That logic stipulates that whatever you being up that identifies who the father is, that being is human. Period.
So, the human father did have sexual relationships with Mary. I hope Richard7 doesn't read your post. He'd have to correct you.
 
Greetings again brotherofJared,

I appreciate your perspective but I consider that this is speaking about God's foreknowledge. One passage that I am interested in is the following:
Psalm 8:3–6 (KJV): 3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; 4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
Here is a Psalm of David that speaks about a certain Son of Man who was made a little lower than the angels, and then crowned with glory and honour, given dominion and all things have been put under his feet. This is all written in the past tense, as if it had already occurred, but when David spoke and wrote these words it was still future. As far as we are concerned, only part of this has been fulfilled when Jesus was resurrected and glorified. God who knows all things could write as if it was already fulfilled because of his foreknowledge, that Jesus would be born, he would not yield to sin, he would honour His Father by being obedient to death on the cross.

Now I am different to most "Christians" and Mormons as I do not believe in the pre-existence of Jesus. I read or heard that Augustine accepted the pre-existence of Jesus, but for some considerable time he was undecided. Also I do not believe in immortal souls, as I believe that humans are conceived and born, and that as a result of Adam's sin man is mortal and will return to the dust Genesis 3:19. After this the faithful wait for the resurrection when Jesus returns to establish his Kingdom on the earth centred in Jerusalem Daniel 12:2-3, Isaiah 2:1-4.

Kind regards
Trevor
Adam was mortal before he sinned and carnal too.
If God had made the first Adam immortal then he would still be immortal! God bless you. :)
 
I don't need to. It's irrelevant to the argument. In order for Jesus to be human, both parents must be human. That logic stipulates that whatever you being up that identifies who the father is, that being is human. Period.
Chuckle, how can the DNA of a Invisible God reproduce the image of God we are created after? Human material structure in a hereditary transferred by a invisible (unseen God!) Sorry, but evangelicals excuse all science when it comes to common sense...



DNA, or deoxyribonucleic acid, is the hereditary material in humans and almost all other organisms. Nearly every cell in a person's body has the same DNA.
 
Once again....mormons work to save their butts...Christians work because of their salvation. (to glorify God0
Your obviously speculating... nowhere in our doctrine or our teachings we are told the only way to save ourselves is thru works...
We also perform our works because we covenant to be obedient to all of Gods laws, ordinances and convents....we believe in the first two commandments.





“Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. “This is the first and great commandment. “And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. “On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”


Of course when one looks at enduring...the question is, endures to the end of what? Is saved from what?
That verse pertains to a tribulation....you have taken it out of context.

Secondly, I don't really need some ex-tra biblical books that tell me someone can snatch me out of the Fathers Jesus hands.
To continue in the path we adopted at baptism by keeping our commitments to Christ, until the end of our mortal life.
Unlike the Christian phrase, once saved always saved....
 
So, the human father did have sexual relationships with Mary. I hope Richard7 doesn't read your post. He'd have to correct you.
Hardly, both of us believe that Mary was a virgin. Guess you have no idea of that definition or why the scriptures state she was a virgin and yet pregnant with the Christ Child... a mystery for sure...
 
Hardly, both of us believe that Mary was a virgin. Guess you have no idea of that definition or why the scriptures state she was a virgin and yet pregnant with the Christ Child... a mystery for sure...
The obvious explanation for such a statement was to indicate that she didn't have sex to get pregnant. Whether or not she did is irrelevant. She got pregnant and had a child, a human child. That would mean, biologically, the father had to be human.
 
Your obviously speculating... nowhere in our doctrine or our teachings we are told the only way to save ourselves is thru works...
We also perform our works because we covenant to be obedient to all of Gods laws, ordinances and convents....we believe in the first two commandments.

Works are a major part of saving yourselves. I hope you've done enough good works to tip the scales in your favor.
“Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. “This is the first and great commandment. “And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. “On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”
Of course a mormon NEVER fails at this. Right?
To continue in the path we adopted at baptism by keeping our commitments to Christ, until the end of our mortal life.
Unlike the Christian phrase, once saved always saved....
Of course mormons never fail at keeping this commitment.
 
Hardly, both of us believe that Mary was a virgin. Guess you have no idea of that definition or why the scriptures state she was a virgin and yet pregnant with the Christ Child... a mystery for sure...
You are helping prove mormons speak out of both sides of their mouth.
 
So, you're saying that regardless of whether or not Adam at the forbidden fruit, he would have died anyway?
God put the forbidden fruit in the garden to serve a purpose well knowing Adam would eat of it. The penalty was in dying you shall die thus Adam eating of it was the catalyst that got the rolling to his separation from God. This was a soulical separation not a spiritual one. God's intention for a new Adam was as a spiritual creation and that would happen through Jesus atonement.

BY the way Adam did die because he was already in a death condition before he ate of the forbidden fruit. It is just that before the Law Adam was not held accountable for his actions. God bless you.
 
So, you're saying that regardless of whether or not Adam at the forbidden fruit, he would have died anyway?
Wow! Romans 5:12, “through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned.”

Do they really search the scriptures, or just what the last sermon was? hmm
 
God put the forbidden fruit in the garden to serve a purpose well knowing Adam would eat of it. The penalty was in dying you shall die thus Adam eating of it was the catalyst that got the rolling to his separation from God. This was a soulical separation not a spiritual one. God's intention for a new Adam was as a spiritual creation and that would happen through Jesus atonement.

BY the way Adam did die because he was already in a death condition before he ate of the forbidden fruit. It is just that before the Law Adam was not held accountable for his actions. God bless you.
Sorry, is that a teaching of your church and if so where can we find the scripture that Adam was already in death... hmm
 
No where in our APPROVED Doctrine or APPROVED Scriptures do we teach anything else.... Mary was a virgin, period...
It's difficult to tell just what is approved and what isn't approved.
for example...

“The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood—was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers,” (Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 115).

Brigham Young also said, “Now, remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost,” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 51).
 
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