Chalcedon
Well-known member
Amen
Is Sin/Evil A Created “Thing”… (By God or By Man)?
- Thread starter Sketo
- Start date
Of course God cannot go against his loving just nature
And that is why determination is false
Chalcedon
Well-known member
Correct
It minimizes the love and the justice of God
Chalcedon
Well-known member
yes determinism is just a nicer way of describing fatalism but thet are the same thing.
Theistic fatalism
Chalcedon
Well-known member
Exactly
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
More worthless "Word Games". "SIN" is simply that which works evil. A man is tempted when he is DRAWN AWAY by his OWN LUST, and "Enticed" (satan's contribution). When the man allows the LUST to "Conceive" (in the sexual sense - conception results in a birth) and that conception produces sinful ACTIONS. (James 1:14,15).
Chalcedon
Well-known member
with nothing but iceberg lettuce 
Sketo
Well-known member
Good question… what “law” is God subject to such that any action of his could be described as “sin”?
Most answer with something like “God is so good that he would not sin”…
… but this answer falsely assumes God could “sin” if he wanted to.
I don’t see scripture teaching “God’s nature as a ‘law’”…
The question is which one of the “moral laws”, given to creation, can also apply to God in the first place…
Can God kill such that it can be described as “sin”?
…
Sketo
Well-known member
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
Produces results contrary to God's will.
Sketo
Well-known member
So you would consider “the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets” an “evil work” because it produced lying prophets, as the result, contrary to God’s will?
(Assuming you believe lying is contrary to God’s will and described as sin)
“Then a spirit came forward and stood before the LORD, saying, ‘I will entice him.’ And the LORD said to him, ‘By what means?’ And he said, ‘I will go out, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And he said, ‘You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go out and do so.’ Now therefore behold, the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; the LORD has declared disaster for you.”” (1Ki 22:21-23)
…
Sketo
Well-known member
So of course God would never put Job’s name in the mind of a serial tormentor when Satan could not find anyone to torment right?
I mean if a man did this to his own child of course you would still call that an act of a “loving just nature” correct?
No… why? Because it has to do with “transgression of a law” and nothing to do with “natures”.
God can determine that Job be the target of Satin by saying “Have you considered my servant Job” fully knowing the result of that act…
… but God did not stop there. God knew the brutal results when he said to Satan “Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand.” So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.” (Job 1:12)
And he also knew the results when he said again “Behold, he is in your hand; only spare his life.”” (Job 2:5-6)
If man pointed a serial tormentor at his own child and said “do what you want to him”, knowing the result of that action, you would call it an evil act… so how can you call the exact same act “loving and just” when God does it?
If you can’t answer this then you will have made it obvious that you do not know what you are talking about.
…
Deuteronomy
Member
Interesting. So that I can understand exactly what you are saying, I'd like to ask you another question or two about this.
1. Do you believe that whenever we sin, we do so at God's behest, IOW, do you believe that God causes/forces us to sin 
(if that's not it, then please tell me what you believe instead .. thanks ) and ...
(if that's not it, then please tell me what you believe instead .. thanks ) and ...2. If that truly is the case (that God ~is~ the Author/Cause of sin, and that He actually forces us to sin) how can He escape being labeled the Author and proximate Cause of sin, and as some sort of maniacal Monster as well, seeing that He sends people to spend eternity in Hell/the Lake of Fire for something that He forced them to do
Thanks for your help
~Deuteronomy
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Deuteronomy
Member
Hello Fltom, that has not been my experience in real life or on other boards, but I'm pretty new to this forum, so perhaps I will find it to be true here
God bless you!!
~Deuteronomy
Hello Fltom, that has not been my experience in real life or on other boards, but I'm pretty new to this forum, so perhaps I will find it to be true here
God bless you!!
~Deuteronomy
Ok stick around
Did God judge Job and consign him to eternal torment based on what He God caused Job to do
If not why do you mention him?
It's only a diversion
Sketo
Well-known member
We were discussing your misunderstanding of God’s “loving just nature” in Gods interaction with Satan, not Job. Why the deflection? Stay on track fltom. You can do it.
Again…
So of course God would never put Job’s name in the mind of a serial tormentor when Satan could not find anyone to torment right?
I mean if a man did this to his own child of course you would still call that an act of a “loving just nature” correct?
No… why? Because it has to do with “transgression of a law” and nothing to do with “natures”.
God can determine that Job be the target of Satin by saying “Have you considered my servant Job” fully knowing the result of that act…
… but God did not stop there. God knew the brutal results when he said to Satan “Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand.” So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.” (Job 1:12)
And he also knew the results when he said again “Behold, he is in your hand; only spare his life.”” (Job 2:5-6)
If man pointed a serial tormentor at his own child and said “do what you want to him”, knowing the result of that action, you would call it an evil act… so how can you call the exact same act “loving and just” when God does it?
If fltom can’t answer this then fltom will have made it obvious that he does not know what he is talking about.
…
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eternomade
Well-known member
Yes.1. Do you believe that whenever we sin, we do so at God's behest, IOW, do you believe that God causes/forces us to sin
I believe that God is the first cause of sin. I don't believe God is capable of being evil though. Nor do I believe that God is responsible to anything or anyone.2. If that truly is the case (that God ~is~ the Author/Cause of sin, and that He actually forces us to sin) how can He escape being labeled the Author and proximate Cause of sin, and as some sort of maniacal Monster as well, seeing that He sends people to spend eternity in Hell/the Lake of Fire for something that He forced them to do
There's countless narratives of God controlling people. I can give you examples if you'd like.
If God is sovereign in salvation but man is sovereign in reprobation, then no one would be saved. I believe that God actively saves His elect and actively hardens the reprobate.
I would like to ask you a question.
Was it possible for Judas to be saved? Judas was prophesied to be the son of perdition. Do you believe this was unfair to him?
The high priest Caiaphas prophesied about Jesus, was this his own doing or God?
I do not believe in free will unless we are speaking about God.