Is the coming of Jesus in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 different from His coming in Matthew 24:29-31

Timtofly

Member
Ok, so you don't even know what the great tribulation period is?
That would explain your inability to answer my question.
thank you for taking the time.
It is not a set period of time. However long Christ is on the earth, will be the greatest tribulation of all time. You do not know, either, because you claim the Second Coming is after an alleged period of time. Jesus is telling us that when He is here, it will be the greatest of all tribulations. No one can know when it starts, because the arrival is unknown. The 7th Trumpet is when it is over and finished.

Your ability to make such a claim means you know the day Jesus comes, something only God knows. All can know the day and hour of the battle of Armageddon. That is not the Second Coming. The battle of Armageddon is on a Sunday in September between 5pm and 6pm. The day before Yom Kippur, September 20, 2026.
 

Timtofly

Member
The last seven years are for national Israel to come into the Church. There is not a Gentile church, and a Jewish Church. The first members of the Church were all Jews. Gentiles were grafted in until the unknown number of them has been fulfilled, and then the focus goes back to Israel.

But I certainly do believe the time is very, very short. I'm curious, Tim, do you think Covid-19 is the black horse? If so, who do you believe is the first horse (white), the Antichrist? I don't know world politics enough to know. I think I know who the false prophet is...
Covid19 is the 1st seal. It is a conqueror going forth to conqueror. It is a replicating army that goes throughout the whole earth. If any can remember back in May and June, the bow, as in flattening the curve. To do so would be a bow effect.


Next I watched as the Lamb broke the first of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living beings say in a thundering voice, “Go!” 2 I looked, and there in front of me was a white horse; its rider had a bow and was given a crown; and he rode off as a conqueror to conquer.

3 When he broke the second seal, I heard the second living being say, “Go!” 4 Another horse went out, a red one; and its rider was given the power to take peace away from the earth and make people slaughter each other. He was given a great sword.

5 When he broke the third seal, I heard the third living being say, “Go!” I looked, and there in front of me was a black horse, and its rider held in his hand a pair of scales. 6 Then I heard what sounded like a voice from among the four living beings say, “Two pounds of wheat for a day’s wages! Six pounds of barley for the same price! But don’t damage the oil or the wine!”

7 When he broke the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living being say, “Go!” 8 I looked, and there in front of me was a pallid, sickly-looking horse. Its rider’s name was Death, and Sh’ol followed behind him. They were given authority to kill one-quarter of the world by war, by famine, by plagues and with the wild animals of the earth.

The red horse was the hot zones where people either died, or one's ability to live normal was taken away.

The black horse is the world's economy.

The pale horse introduces Death. Death is the removal of one's name from the Lamb's book of life. It is eternal damnation for those during the final harvest, the goats and tares.

Things are going to keep getting worse, and 25% of humanity will die, before the 6th Seal.

The 5th Seal is the glorification of the church in Paradise. The 6th Seal is the change for the living church, into incorruptible bodies and glorified. Then the church will be presented to God by the Lamb as complete. Then the Trumpets and Thunders will be the final harvest of those alive on the earth.
 

Timtofly

Member
How do you come to this conclusion?
7 years from September/October 2019.

This battle is the 1 hour the 10 kings give their power to the beast. Revelation 17:12-14

12 "The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet begun to rule, but they receive power as kings for one hour, along with the beast.
13 They have one mind, and they hand over their power and authority to the beast.
14 They will go to war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will defeat them, because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are called, chosen and faithful will overcome along with him.”

Also this all depends on if Satan is allowed 42 months. The church is still here and the Holy Spirit is still at work. God can still heal all nations. The sign of Jonah, is still repentance in 3 days. It is the Hope of God's grace people should be concerned about, not an antichrist.
 
Last edited:

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
Covid19 is the 1st seal. It is a conqueror going forth to conqueror. It is a replicating army that goes throughout the whole earth. If any can remember back in May and June, the bow, as in flattening the curve. To do so would be a bow effect.


Next I watched as the Lamb broke the first of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living beings say in a thundering voice, “Go!” 2 I looked, and there in front of me was a white horse; its rider had a bow and was given a crown; and he rode off as a conqueror to conquer.

3 When he broke the second seal, I heard the second living being say, “Go!” 4 Another horse went out, a red one; and its rider was given the power to take peace away from the earth and make people slaughter each other. He was given a great sword.

5 When he broke the third seal, I heard the third living being say, “Go!” I looked, and there in front of me was a black horse, and its rider held in his hand a pair of scales. 6 Then I heard what sounded like a voice from among the four living beings say, “Two pounds of wheat for a day’s wages! Six pounds of barley for the same price! But don’t damage the oil or the wine!”

7 When he broke the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living being say, “Go!” 8 I looked, and there in front of me was a pallid, sickly-looking horse. Its rider’s name was Death, and Sh’ol followed behind him. They were given authority to kill one-quarter of the world by war, by famine, by plagues and with the wild animals of the earth.

The red horse was the hot zones where people either died, or one's ability to live normal was taken away.

The black horse is the world's economy.

The pale horse introduces Death. Death is the removal of one's name from the Lamb's book of life. It is eternal damnation for those during the final harvest, the goats and tares.

Things are going to keep getting worse, and 25% of humanity will die, before the 6th Seal.

The 5th Seal is the glorification of the church in Paradise. The 6th Seal is the change for the living church, into incorruptible bodies and glorified. Then the church will be presented to God by the Lamb as complete. Then the Trumpets and Thunders will be the final harvest of those alive on the earth.

I see the horses (seals) in the same order as prophesied in Matthew 24: with the Antichrist as "he" in seal one in Revelation 6.

4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many, (WHITE HORSE) 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars, (RED HORSE) See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, (BLACK HORSE), and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
 

Timtofly

Member
I see the horses (seals) in the same order as prophesied in Matthew 24: with the Antichrist as "he" in seal one in Revelation 6.

4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many, (WHITE HORSE) 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars, (RED HORSE) See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, (BLACK HORSE), and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
You did the same thing John did. Used a horseman to illustrate your sermon on Matthew 24. The horseman are just points to a four point sermon.

There have been hundreds of antichrist since the Cross. That is nothing new. There have been thousands of wars as well in the last 1990 years. There have also been thousands of plagues and famines.

BTW, many antichrists is not an indication of a single AC. Jesus does not even mention Satan in the discourse. John talks about the dragon more in Revelation. Paul mentions the Adversary once in 2 Thessalonians 2. No one names an Antichrist once. Antiochus Epiphanies was not an Antichrist. The false prophet is both a political and religious voice of authority. That better fits Antiochus Epiphanies. The FP can fit nicely in 2 Thessalonians 2. Both in Daniel and 2 Thessalonians 2, this FP has an alliance with Satan. Satan has been turning one's thought away from God's Word since Eve in the Garden. Satan has been leading humans away from the Torah, starting with Greek mythology. There has not been some supernatural AC off and on in history.

No where does it ever say there is going to be a one world order that attempts some control. There is only a one hour "last stand". This one world government is just hype of modern technology and fear mongering, to provide some type of contrived persecution to endure. All eschatology should be blamed for this hype. Post mill claimed a last "OWO", Then a 1000 years of a desolate earth. Amil argued back, no the 1000 years is symbolic of now, and the world will just keep getting better on it's own. Preterist and historist came and claimed, both wrong, and it already happened in the 1st century. Now we have some who take bits and pieces from all views and make up their own version from many different ideologies.

Not even covid has brought the world together as a single mind. That humans want peace is given. Many also want war and a reduction in population, by any means necessary. This OWO is in no prophecy as being a sign of the Second Coming. Wars and rumors of wars, only.
 

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
You did the same thing John did. Used a horseman to illustrate your sermon on Matthew 24. The horseman are just points to a four point sermon.

There have been hundreds of antichrist since the Cross. That is nothing new. There have been thousands of wars as well in the last 1990 years. There have also been thousands of plagues and famines.

BTW, many antichrists is not an indication of a single AC. Jesus does not even mention Satan in the discourse. John talks about the dragon more in Revelation. Paul mentions the Adversary once in 2 Thessalonians 2. No one names an Antichrist once. Antiochus Epiphanies was not an Antichrist. The false prophet is both a political and religious voice of authority. That better fits Antiochus Epiphanies. The FP can fit nicely in 2 Thessalonians 2. Both in Daniel and 2 Thessalonians 2, this FP has an alliance with Satan. Satan has been turning one's thought away from God's Word since Eve in the Garden. Satan has been leading humans away from the Torah, starting with Greek mythology. There has not been some supernatural AC off and on in history.

No where does it ever say there is going to be a one world order that attempts some control. There is only a one hour "last stand". This one world government is just hype of modern technology and fear mongering, to provide some type of contrived persecution to endure. All eschatology should be blamed for this hype. Post mill claimed a last "OWO", Then a 1000 years of a desolate earth. Amil argued back, no the 1000 years is symbolic of now, and the world will just keep getting better on it's own. Preterist and historist came and claimed, both wrong, and it already happened in the 1st century. Now we have some who take bits and pieces from all views and make up their own version from many different ideologies.

Not even covid has brought the world together as a single mind. That humans want peace is given. Many also want war and a reduction in population, by any means necessary. This OWO is in no prophecy as being a sign of the Second Coming. Wars and rumors of wars, only.
Personally, I believe "the beast" in Revelation is the Antichrist. And I do believe there will be one Antichrist, but many with the spirit of Antichrist as John says. 1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.

I also believe that the false prophet will be a major religious leader like the Pope. In fact, it could be the last Pope when the GT starts, which I believe will be within the next 2 years. Things are certainly in line for that happening, especially the RCC wanting to baptize aliens from outer space! And it is no surprise that many believe the Vatican to be Babylon, what with the adoption of the Babylonian mystery religion of goddess and godchild idol worship being incorporated into the RCC and even Orthodox disguised as Mary and Jesus, with Mary being the star of the two and called by the idol's title, Queen of Heaven, Jeremiah chapters 7 and 44.
 

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
7 years from September/October 2019.

This battle is the 1 hour the 10 kings give their power to the beast. Revelation 17:12-14

12 "The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet begun to rule, but they receive power as kings for one hour, along with the beast.
13 They have one mind, and they hand over their power and authority to the beast.
14 They will go to war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will defeat them, because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are called, chosen and faithful will overcome along with him.”

Also this all depends on if Satan is allowed 42 months. The church is still here and the Holy Spirit is still at work. God can still heal all nations. The sign of Jonah, is still repentance in 3 days. It is the Hope of God's grace people should be concerned about, not an antichrist.
I'm still lost. What happened on Sept/Oct 2019?
 
Top