Is The Devil immoral according to atheist religious scholars? Yes or No?

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member

A simple yes/no question.​


Has any atheist here ever indicated the Devil is immoral?

The Devil instructed one of his recent puppets to claim they are more moral than Christians. Of course the atheeists adore Hitler when they insist their Darwinist Hitler was a "Christian"
 

Furion

Active member
Hmm.

The Devil thinks his morals are more moral than God, so atheists share that belief with the Devil.
 

5wize

Well-known member

A simple yes/no question.​


Has any atheist here ever indicated the Devil is immoral?

The Devil instructed one of his recent puppets to claim they are more moral than Christians. Of course the atheeists adore Hitler when they insist their Darwinist Hitler was a "Christian"
Are you referring to this?....

.... atheists teach us the most important lesson of them all — the lesson of true compassion. You see, when an atheist performs an act of charity, visits someone who is sick, helps someone in need, and cares for the world, he is not doing so because of some religious teaching. He does not believe that God commanded him to perform this act. In fact, he does not believe in God at all, so his acts are based on an inner sense of morality. And look at the kindness he can bestow upon others simply because he feels it to be right.”
“This means,” the Master continued “that when someone reaches out to you for help, you should never say ‘I pray that God will help you.’ Instead for the moment, you should become an atheist, imagine that there is no God who can help, and say ‘I will help you.’”
—Martin Buber, Tales of Hasidim Vol. 2 (1991)

Make a lucid argument against it. Heck Auth. Nouv. just attempt a lucid sentence.
 

Temujin

Well-known member
The Devil character is depicted as immoral, in counter-point to the God character who is generally depicted as moral, though frequently engaging in activities most people would find immoral, including apparently, creating the Devil.

On the whole, character development is not a strength of this book, with most characters being very wooden and one-dimensional. The exception being the character of God, which is inconsistent to the point of being non-credible, with several unexpected outbursts, which instead of adding depth leave the reader confused. Clearly having several authors over a long period of time adds to the generally unconnected and disjointed development of this central character, which is further complicated by conflating three separate aspects of being into the same entity.

In contrast, the Devil is relatively straightforward. There is some ambiguity about whether this is the same character as the Serpent in the early part of the book. There is also the strange episode involving the mental torture of the unfortunate Job, where the Devil apparently acts as a surrogate for God.

For a more modern, and arguably better written treatment of this subject, I would recommend the trilogy His Dark Materials, which benefits from having a single author. The character development is much more subtle and ultimately more satisfying. The reader is never sure until right at the end, which characters can be classed as immoral or moral. All have flaws and all have admirable qualities. Oddly perhaps, the most obviously "good" and sympathetic character is the one that eventually plays the role of the Serpent, which happens towards the end of the story, instead of at the beginning. For those who find the original book unsatisfying, the latter is more likely to be rewarding.
 

A simple yes/no question.​


Has any atheist here ever indicated the Devil is immoral?

The Devil instructed one of his recent puppets to claim they are more moral than Christians. Of course the atheeists adore Hitler when they insist their Darwinist Hitler was a "Christian"
Morality is subjective to each individual person. I personally think Hitler, who was a Christian, was immoral. I think Stalin, who was an atheist, was immoral. I think Osama bin Laden, who was Muslim, was immoral.

If the Devil is real as described in the Bible then I think he is immoral. If Jesus is real as described in The Bible I think he is moral. If God is real as described in The Bible then I think He is immoral.

I am not sure how this helps prove if Christianity is real or not but those are my moral opinions.
 

The Pixie

Active member
The Devil instructed one of his recent puppets to claim they are more moral than Christians.
What leads you to conclude it was the devil making him do it?

The simple fact is that we routinely see Christians on CARM telling lies, acting hypocritically, etc. No need to suppose the Devil was involved here - especially as he does not actually exist! More likely this atheist was just going on what he saw with his own eyes.

Perhaps if certain Christians stopped telling lies, atheists would not believe they are more moral than said Christians.

Of course the atheeists adore Hitler when they insist their Darwinist Hitler was a "Christian"
What a great example of a Christian saying something that is not patently not true.

We do not need the devil top tell us we are more moral than that.
 

Harry Leggs

Active member
Morality is subjective to each individual person. I personally think Hitler, who was a Christian, was immoral.
You prefer lies to truth and that is why you believe Hitler was a Christian. You cannot prove Hitler was a Christian since you do not even know what it means to live by transcendent principles.
I think Stalin, who was an atheist, was immoral.
That is offset by his opinion that he was not.
I think Osama bin Laden, who was Muslim, was immoral.
Then prove it rationally according to your beliefs. All they did was live life according to their own itineraries for their own happiness and the happiness of the majority. Reality including truth was defined by them. They, like you did not live by transcendent principles. You are on the same page as them. You wish to define reality according to your own purposes, not according to what is and you will forfeit your freedoms for earthly pleasure.
If the Devil is real as described in the Bible then I think he is immoral.
You are adhering to the mandate of the serpent. You are gods.
If Jesus is real as described in The Bible I think he is moral. If God is real as described in The Bible then I think He is immoral.
Right you get to define reality and truth just like Hitler and Osama.
 
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Electric Skeptic

Well-known member
You prefer lies to truth and that is why you believe Hitler was a Christian. You cannot prove Hitler was a Christian since you do not even know what it means to live by transcendent principles.
'Transcendent principles' - is this the latest buzzword?

There is zero evidence that you or anybody else lives by 'transcendent principles'.
 

The Pixie

Active member
Your parasite pet buzzword. Hitler liked your buzzword.
Hitler's own words.

My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter.
In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross.

- My New Order, Hitler, 1922
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
The Devil character is depicted as immoral, in counter-point to the God character who is generally depicted as moral, though frequently engaging in activities most people would find immoral, including apparently, creating the Devil.

On the whole, character development is not a strength of this book, with most characters being very wooden and one-dimensional. The exception being the character of God, which is inconsistent to the point of being non-credible, with several unexpected outbursts, which instead of adding depth leave the reader confused. Clearly having several authors over a long period of time adds to the generally unconnected and disjointed development of this central character, which is further complicated by conflating three separate aspects of being into the same entity.

In contrast, the Devil is relatively straightforward. There is some ambiguity about whether this is the same character as the Serpent in the early part of the book. There is also the strange episode involving the mental torture of the unfortunate Job, where the Devil apparently acts as a surrogate for God.

For a more modern, and arguably better written treatment of this subject, I would recommend the trilogy His Dark Materials, which benefits from having a single author. The character development is much more subtle and ultimately more satisfying. The reader is never sure until right at the end, which characters can be classed as immoral or moral. All have flaws and all have admirable qualities. Oddly perhaps, the most obviously "good" and sympathetic character is the one that eventually plays the role of the Serpent, which happens towards the end of the story, instead of at the beginning. For those who find the original book unsatisfying, the latter is more likely to be rewarding.
Why can't atheists who serve the Devil come to grips with Truth?
 

Harry Leggs

Active member
Why can't atheists who serve the Devil come to grips with Truth?
Atheists more into defining truth for everybody else. 2+2=5 is truth if they say so and no matter the damage the application of their lies causes to cultures. The destabilization and breakdowns is all a small price to be paid for the rights of men to wear dresses because they think they are females or teach we are nothing more than apes to children unchallenged.
 

The Pixie

Active member
Atheists more into defining truth for everybody else. 2+2=5 is truth if they say so and no matter the damage the application of their lies causes to cultures. The destabilization and breakdowns is all a small price to be paid for the rights of men to wear dresses because they think they are females or teach we are nothing more than apes to children unchallenged.
Meanwhile Christians are more into defining morality for everyone else. 2+2=5 is truth if they say so and no matter the damage the application of their lies causes to cultures. Domestic abuse should be ignore, rape and child abuse by the clergy should be hushed up, homosexuals should be persecuted...
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
Meanwhile Christians are more into defining morality for everyone else. 2+2=5 is truth if they say so and no matter the damage the application of their lies causes to cultures. Domestic abuse should be ignore, rape and child abuse by the clergy should be hushed up, homosexuals should be persecuted...

Can you show how this did "damage to cultures"

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

200 million killed in the Name of Atheism last century. .....culture damage leaders

My Bible doesn't contain the word "moral"
 
You prefer lies to truth and that is why you believe Hitler was a Christian.
I prefer facts and empoirical evidence and the evidence that Hitler was Christian is overwhelming:
  • Christian in Mein Kampf: Hitler referred to God and his heavenly Creator multiple times in Mein Kampf
    • "I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator." -- Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 2​
    • "Once again the songs of the Fatherland roared to the heavens along the endless marching columns, and for the last time the Lord's grace smiled on His ungrateful children." - Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 7​
    • "The act which brings about such a development is a sin against the will of the Eternal Creator. And as a sin this act will be avenged." - Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 11​
    • "Anyone who dares to lay hands on the highest image of the Lord commits sacrilege against the benevolent Creator of this miracle and contributes to the expulsion from paradise." - Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 1​
  • Declared himself Christian: He publicly declared himself a Christian
    • "These feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter." -- Adolf Hitler in a speech on April 12, 1922
  • Nazi Party Aligned with Christianity: Hitler felt that the Nazi Party was in line with Christianity and liberalism and Communism were against Christianity
    • "The fact that the Catholic Church has come to an agreement with Fascist Italy proves beyond doubt that the Fascist world of ideas is closer to Christianity than those of Jewish liberalism or even atheistic Marxism" - Adolf Hitler in an article in the Völkischer Beobachter, February 29, 1929,​
  • Denounced Atheism: Hitler denounced atheism as inferior to Christianity
    • "The advantages for the individual which may be derived from compromises with atheistic organizations do not compare in any way with the consequences which are visible in the destruction of our common religious and ethical values. The national Government sees in both Christian denominations the most important factor for the maintenance of our society." - Adolf Hitler, speech before the Reichstag, March 23, 1933​
It is absurd to argue Hitler was an atheist given the mountain of evidence that he was not.
You cannot prove Hitler was a Christian since you do not even know what it means to live by transcendent principles.
I just proved Hitler was Christian.
That is offset by his opinion that he was not.
Do you have empirical evidence that contradicts all of the evidence I posted? Any evidence that Hitler was an atheist?
Then prove it rationally according to your beliefs. All they did was live life according to their own itineraries for their own happiness and the happiness of the majority. Reality including truth was defined by them. They, like you did not live by transcendent principles. You are on the same page as them. You wish to define reality according to your own purposes, not according to what is and you will forfeit your freedoms for earthly pleasure.
Sure. My personal belief is that killing innocent people is wrong and evil. Osama Bin Laden killed innocent people. Therefore I think he was evil based on my own morality.
You are adhering to the mandate of the serpent. You are gods.
I do not know what the 'mandate of the serpent' is but I am pretty sure I am not a god.
Right you get to define reality and truth just like Hitler and Osama.
We all do. We each define our own sense of right and wrong. You do too - your sense of right and wrong is your decision. You do not have some objective standard of evil.

If you do have an objective standard of evil that is not just based on your opinions then demonstrate it. Otherwise you have no claim to a morality that is different, or better, than mine. You cannot keep suggesting that you have some objective standard that is superior to my own morality - you have to prove that. Here's how:

Case study: use your objective moral standard that is not based on opinion to tell us if using marijuana is right or wrong. If you can do that I'll admit I was wrong.

:)
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
I prefer facts and empoirical evidence and the evidence that Hitler was Christian is overwhelming:
  • Christian in Mein Kampf: Hitler referred to God and his heavenly Creator multiple times in Mein Kampf
    • "I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator." -- Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 2​
    • "Once again the songs of the Fatherland roared to the heavens along the endless marching columns, and for the last time the Lord's grace smiled on His ungrateful children." - Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 7​
    • "The act which brings about such a development is a sin against the will of the Eternal Creator. And as a sin this act will be avenged." - Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 11​
    • "Anyone who dares to lay hands on the highest image of the Lord commits sacrilege against the benevolent Creator of this miracle and contributes to the expulsion from paradise." - Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 1​
  • Declared himself Christian: He publicly declared himself a Christian
    • "These feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter." -- Adolf Hitler in a speech on April 12, 1922
  • Nazi Party Aligned with Christianity: Hitler felt that the Nazi Party was in line with Christianity and liberalism and Communism were against Christianity
    • "The fact that the Catholic Church has come to an agreement with Fascist Italy proves beyond doubt that the Fascist world of ideas is closer to Christianity than those of Jewish liberalism or even atheistic Marxism" - Adolf Hitler in an article in the Völkischer Beobachter, February 29, 1929,​
  • Denounced Atheism:Hitler denounced atheism as inferior to Christianity
    • "The advantages for the individual which may be derived from compromises with atheistic organizations do not compare in any way with the consequences which are visible in the destruction of our common religious and ethical values. The national Government sees in both Christian denominations the most important factor for the maintenance of our society." - Adolf Hitler, speech before the Reichstag, March 23, 1933​
It is absurd to argue Hitler was an atheist given the mountain of evidence that he was not.

I just proved Hitler was Christian.

Do you have empirical evidence that contradicts all of the evidence I posted? Any evidence that Hitler was an atheist?

Sure. My personal belief is that killing innocent people is wrong and evil. Osama Bin Laden killed innocent people. Therefore I think he was evil based on my own morality.

I do not know what the 'mandate of the serpent' is but I am pretty sure I am not a god.

We all do. We each define our own sense of right and wrong. You do too - your sense of right and wrong is your decision. You do not have some objective standard of evil.

If you do have an objective standard of evil that is not just based on your opinions then demonstrate it. Otherwise you have no claim to a morality that is different, or better, than mine. You cannot keep suggesting that you have some objective standard that is superior to my own morality - you have to prove that. Here's how:

Case study: use your objective moral standard that is not based on opinion to tell us if using marijuana is right or wrong. If you can do that I'll admit I was wrong.

:)
Atheists believe liars

Satanic deception and ignorance.

Jesus Christ defines Christianity.
Your demon possessed Hitler lied, we all know he lies because he lake atheeists served the Devil.

Good and Honest people know Hitler lied and Nazis will not call Hitler a liar. Instead the the devil has them quote their liar Adolf.

These are the same kult of soldier rapists who shared their lifestyle in Deutschland.
 
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