Is the Father called "my God" in John 20:28?

kyrios22

Active member
To see Jesus is to see the Father. Since the disciples always see Jesus, they always see the Father. Scripture also said that the disciples did not only see Jesus but they also heard Jesus and touched Jesus. Does that also mean the Father has been heard and the Father has been touched by the disciples too? It is mostly likely that the vision of the Father in Jesus is not referring to the literal physical outward appearance of Jesus but to Jesus' actions based on context ("the Father who dwells in me does his works"). It is the works of the Father that is seen in Jesus and that is how the Father is seen in Jesus. It is also evidence why Jesus is "equal with God" in John 5:18 because in context in verse 17 it says that Jesus works and the Father works. They are both working simultaneously and that's how they are said to be equal (Grk. ison) in the text. And in verse 19, John limits the abilities or works which Jesus can do: Jesus can do only what the Father does. For instance, creating all things (John 1:3).

To say something to Jesus is not to say something to the Father because when someone speaks to Jesus, they speak to Jesus (not the Father). When Thomas said to him (to Jesus alone): My Lord and my God. It does not mean Thomas said to the Father. Both grammar and context affirm that Jesus alone is the antecedent of the singular pronoun "him" in v. 28.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
To see Jesus is to see the Father. Since the disciples always see Jesus, they always see the Father. Scripture also said that the disciples did not only see Jesus but they also heard Jesus and touched Jesus. Does that also mean the Father has been heard and the Father has been touched by the disciples too? It is mostly likely that the vision of the Father in Jesus is not referring to the literal physical outward appearance of Jesus but to Jesus' actions based on context ("the Father who dwells in me does his works"). It is the works of the Father that is seen in Jesus and that is how the Father is seen in Jesus. It is also evidence why Jesus is "equal with God" in John 5:18 because in context in verse 17 it says that Jesus works and the Father works. They are both working simultaneously and that's how they are said to be equal (Grk. ison) in the text. And in verse 19, John limits the abilities or works which Jesus can do: Jesus can do only what the Father does. For instance, creating all things (John 1:3).

To say something to Jesus is not to say something to the Father because when someone speaks to Jesus, they speak to Jesus (not the Father). When Thomas said to him (to Jesus alone): My Lord and my God. It does not mean Thomas said to the Father. Both grammar and context affirm that Jesus alone is the antecedent of the singular pronoun "him" in v. 28.

The context of John 20:28 is seeing and believing.
 

jamesh

Well-known member
Since there is only one true God to serve and Jesus Christ said at John 5:37, "And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form." And He said at John 6:46, "Not that any man hath seen the Father, except who is from God, he hath seen the Father."

Kindly explain to all of us here who Job saw at Job 25-27, "And as for me, I know that my Redeemer lives, And at the last He will take His stand on the earth. vs26, Even after my skin is destroyed, YET FROM MY FLESH I SHALL SEE GOD; Vs27,, "Whom I myself shall behold, and WHOM MY EYES SHALL SEE AND NOT ANOTHER. My heart faints within me."

IN GOD THE SON,
james
 

kyrios22

Active member
The context of John 20:28 is seeing and believing.
Seeing the literal appearance of Jesus is the context in John 20:28.
Seeing the works of Jesus is the context in John 14:9.
Your interpretation is obviously an eisegesis.
John 20:28 does not have the same sense of seeing Jesus based on context.

The Bible: Thomas answered and said to Jesus: my God.

Unitarian: Thomas answered and said to the Father: my God.

The Unitarian nterpretation is not only eisegetically but also delusional, reading into the text something that is not there. Even when the biblical text explicitly says Thomas said to Jesus my God, they would still insist that Thomas said it to the Father!
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member

The Bible: Thomas answered and said to Jesus: my God.

Unitarian: Thomas answered and said to the Father: my God.

Completely incorrect. You don't listen too well.


The Unitarian nterpretation is not only eisegetically but also delusional, reading into the text something that is not there. Even when the biblical text explicitly says Thomas said to Jesus my God, they would still insist that Thomas said it to the Father!

Incorrect.

Thomas said these words TO JESUS.

Why? Because to see JESUS is to see THE FATHER.
 

kyrios22

Active member
Completely incorrect. You don't listen too well.

Incorrect.

Thomas said these words TO JESUS.

Why? Because to see JESUS is to see THE FATHER.

to see JESUS is to see THE FATHER.

That is in John 14:9 and it's not even about the physical appearance of Jesus! it's about works based on context (vv. 9-11). Thus, it has nothing to do with John 20:29 which has Jesus blessing those who believed even if they did not see his resurrected physical body!

If you insist that the Father is seen in Jesus' risen body in John 20:28, then, to be consistent in your logic the Father is seen crucified since Jesus is seen crucified, that the Father is seen dead since Jesus is seen dead and so forth.

But in John 20:28, to speak TO JESUS does not mean to speak TO THE FATHER.

John 20:28 explicitly states that Thomas is speaking to Jesus alone as evident by the singular pronoun in the text.

John 20:28 explicitly states that Thomas is saying ''my God'' to Jesus alone based on grammar.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
to see JESUS is to see THE FATHER.

That is in John 14:9 and it's not even about the physical appearance of Jesus! it's about works based on context (vv. 9-11).

Yes, seeing this flesh named Jesus doing the Father's works.


Thus, it has nothing to do with John 20:29 which has Jesus blessing those who believed even if they did not see his resurrected physical body!

In contrast to Thomas who would not believe unless he had seen.


If you insist that the Father is seen in Jesus' risen body in John 20:28, then, to be consistent in your logic the Father is seen crucified since Jesus is seen crucified, that the Father is seen dead since Jesus is seen dead and so forth.

the Spirit of truth that proceeds from the Father John 15:26
He breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. John 20:22

You only show us that you do not comprehend what is going on.

But in John 20:28, to speak TO JESUS does not mean to speak TO THE FATHER.

No one is arguing about speaking to the Father. That was your imagination running wild again.

John 20:28 explicitly states that Thomas is speaking to Jesus alone as evident by the singular pronoun in the text.


Actually, the grammar is that which Greek speakers would use to refer to 2 persons, "the Lord of me and the God of me."

John 20:28 explicitly states that Thomas is saying ''my God'' to Jesus alone based on grammar.

Yes Thomas was speaking TO JESUS because to see Jesus was to see the Father.

Now tell us, according to Jesus, WHO did Thomas see at John 20:28?
 

JNelson

Well-known member
To see Jesus is to see the Father. Since the disciples always see Jesus, they always see the Father. Scripture also said that the disciples did not only see Jesus but they also heard Jesus and touched Jesus. Does that also mean the Father has been heard and the Father has been touched by the disciples too?
Of course not
It is mostly likely that the vision of the Father in Jesus is not referring to the literal physical outward appearance of Jesus but to Jesus' actions based on context ("the Father who dwells in me does his works"). It is the works of the Father that is seen in Jesus and that is how the Father is seen in Jesus.
Correct and let’s not forget the words that Jesus speaks as well. Not words like “I’m hungry” because obviously God doesn’t get hungry but rather his teachings are the words of God
It is also evidence why Jesus is "equal with God" in John 5:18 because in context in verse 17 it says that Jesus works and the Father works. They are both working simultaneously and that's how they are said to be equal (Grk. ison) in the text. And in verse 19, John limits the abilities or works which Jesus can do: Jesus can do only what the Father does. For instance, creating all things (John 1:3).
Jesus is not equal in that the power to do these works derive from himself as he says “I can do nothing of myself”. Jesus is equal to God in the works he does because it’s God who empowers him and gives him the authority to do so. God doesn’t need to be empowered or be given authority by anyone else.

Also, the context is not talking about works as in creation but rather miraculous works during his ministry as that is the context.
To say something to Jesus is not to say something to the Father because when someone speaks to Jesus, they speak to Jesus (not the Father). When Thomas said to him (to Jesus alone): My Lord and my God. It does not mean Thomas said to the Father. Both grammar and context affirm that Jesus alone is the antecedent of the singular pronoun "him" in v. 28.
No one is saying Thomas spoke to two persons but he did speak to Jesus about two persons.

The point that Jesus was making in John 14 was that when they hear the words Jesus speaks and see the miracles he performs they are seeing the Father’s works and hearing the Father’s words.

Thomas would not believe Jesus was raised from dead until he saw Jesus himself and when he did he had no doubt that this was the work of God who was in Christ.

It’s as Jesus said in John 14:11 “Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves” and this is exactly why Thomas believed in that moment, because of the work itself.

At that moment Thomas finally truly saw the Father in Jesus and he believed because of the work of the resurrection.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Of course not

Correct and let’s not forget the words that Jesus speaks as well. Not words like “I’m hungry” because obviously God doesn’t get hungry but rather his teachings are the words of God

Jesus is not equal in that the power to do these works derive from himself as he says “I can do nothing of myself”. Jesus is equal to God in the works he does because it’s God who empowers him and gives him the authority to do so. God doesn’t need to be empowered or be given authority by anyone else.

Also, the context is not talking about works as in creation but rather miraculous works during his ministry as that is the context.

No one is saying Thomas spoke to two persons but he did speak to Jesus about two persons.

The point that Jesus was making in John 14 was that when they hear the words Jesus speaks and see the miracles he performs they are seeing the Father’s works and hearing the Father’s words.

Thomas would not believe Jesus was raised from dead until he saw Jesus himself and when he did he had no doubt that this was the work of God who was in Christ.

It’s as Jesus said in John 14:11 “Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves” and this is exactly why Thomas believed in that moment, because of the work itself.

At that moment Thomas finally truly saw the Father in Jesus and he believed because of the work of the resurrection.

Yep.
 

jamesh

Well-known member
Since there is only one true God to serve and Jesus Christ said at John 5:37, "And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form." And He said at John 6:46, "Not that any man hath seen the Father, except who is from God, he hath seen the Father."

Kindly explain to all of us here who Job saw at Job 25-27, "And as for me, I know that my Redeemer lives, And at the last He will take His stand on the earth. vs26, Even after my skin is destroyed, YET FROM MY FLESH I SHALL SEE GOD; Vs27,, "Whom I myself shall behold, and WHOM MY EYES SHALL SEE AND NOT ANOTHER. My heart faints within me."

IN GOD THE SON,
james
Bumped for Our Lords God.

In Him,
james
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Since there is only one true God to serve and Jesus Christ said at John 5:37, "And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form." And He said at John 6:46, "Not that any man hath seen the Father, except who is from God, he hath seen the Father."

Kindly explain to all of us here who Job saw at Job 25-27, "And as for me, I know that my Redeemer lives, And at the last He will take His stand on the earth. vs26, Even after my skin is destroyed, YET FROM MY FLESH I SHALL SEE GOD; Vs27,, "Whom I myself shall behold, and WHOM MY EYES SHALL SEE AND NOT ANOTHER. My heart faints within me."

It doesn't say Job saw anyone. Do you not know the significance of past tense and future tense verbs?
 

kyrios22

Active member
Of course not

Correct and let’s not forget the words that Jesus speaks as well. Not words like “I’m hungry” because obviously God doesn’t get hungry but rather his teachings are the words of God

Jesus is not equal in that the power to do these works derive from himself as he says “I can do nothing of myself”. Jesus is equal to God in the works he does because it’s God who empowers him and gives him the authority to do so. God doesn’t need to be empowered or be given authority by anyone else.

Also, the context is not talking about works as in creation but rather miraculous works during his ministry as that is the context.

No one is saying Thomas spoke to two persons but he did speak to Jesus about two persons.

The point that Jesus was making in John 14 was that when they hear the words Jesus speaks and see the miracles he performs they are seeing the Father’s works and hearing the Father’s words.

Thomas would not believe Jesus was raised from dead until he saw Jesus himself and when he did he had no doubt that this was the work of God who was in Christ.

It’s as Jesus said in John 14:11 “Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves” and this is exactly why Thomas believed in that moment, because of the work itself.

At that moment Thomas finally truly saw the Father in Jesus and he believed because of the work of the resurrection.
Finally truly saw the Father in the works, not in the physical appearance of the risen Jesus which is what the text explicitly refers to (20:29).

"My God" is explicitly addressed to Jesus in John 20:28 (Thomas said to him...my God) which means it is impossible that Thomas is talking about the Father. Of course, if you are a modalist, that is possible.
 

JNelson

Well-known member
Finally truly saw the Father in the works, not in the physical appearance of the risen Jesus which is what the text explicitly refers to (20:29).

"My God" is explicitly addressed to Jesus in John 20:28 (Thomas said to him...my God) which means it is impossible that Thomas is talking about the Father. Of course, if you are a modalist, that is possible.
The physical appearance of the resurrected Jesus is proof that the Father who dwells in Christ did his work (John 14:10) and that is what Thomas understood and believed and thus he saw his Lord (Jesus) and his God (the Father) both at that moment.
 

kyrios22

Active member
The physical appearance of the resurrected Jesus is proof that the Father who dwells in Christ did his work (John 14:10) and that is what Thomas understood and believed and thus he saw his Lord (Jesus) and his God (the Father) both at that moment.
Thomas saw the Father's works, not said to the Father "my God" in John 20:28.

Thomas ONLY said "my God" TO Jesus ALONE in the text. Thomas is addressing Jesus ALONE as his Lord in the verse. Likewise, Thomas is addressing Jesus ALONE as his God in the verse:

Thomas answered and said to him: my Lord and my God (not just "my Lord" only, but as the text explicitly says both "my Lord and my God").
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
The physical appearance of the resurrected Jesus is proof that the Father who dwells in Christ did his work (John 14:10) and that is what Thomas understood and believed and thus he saw his Lord (Jesus) and his God (the Father) both at that moment.
He saw ONLY Jesus Christ.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
Of course not

Correct and let’s not forget the words that Jesus speaks as well. Not words like “I’m hungry” because obviously God doesn’t get hungry but rather his teachings are the words of God

Jesus is not equal in that the power to do these works derive from himself as he says “I can do nothing of myself”. Jesus is equal to God in the works he does because it’s God who empowers him and gives him the authority to do so. God doesn’t need to be empowered or be given authority by anyone else.

Also, the context is not talking about works as in creation but rather miraculous works during his ministry as that is the context.

No one is saying Thomas spoke to two persons but he did speak to Jesus about two persons.

The point that Jesus was making in John 14 was that when they hear the words Jesus speaks and see the miracles he performs they are seeing the Father’s works and hearing the Father’s words.

Thomas would not believe Jesus was raised from dead until he saw Jesus himself and when he did he had no doubt that this was the work of God who was in Christ.

It’s as Jesus said in John 14:11 “Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves” and this is exactly why Thomas believed in that moment, because of the work itself.

At that moment Thomas finally truly saw the Father in Jesus and he believed because of the work of the resurrection.
At that moment Thomas finally realized Jesus Christ was his Lord and God.
 
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