Is the Lord's prayer compatible with Calvinism?

Ladodgers6

Well-known member
"...on earth as it is in heaven."

Is it not true that every time the Calvinist prays the Lord's prayer they confess that God's will is not, in fact, being done here on earth? We don't have to pray that His will would be done in heaven; the Lord's prayer assumes that it is being done there, so we don't pray for it. We do pray that it would be done here, therefore, to some extent God's will is not being done here on earth.

Thoughts?
You also hold to the teaching of Prevenient Grace (Arminian View), correct? If so, can you explain it for us?
 

Theophilos

Active member
So does our salvation depend on our forgiving others or God forgiving you?
Scripture says forgiveness depends on both in multiple places:

. . . if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. Matthew 6:14-15 NKJV

Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. Luke 6:37

. . . as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive. Col 3:13

As far as salvation, God is the perfect judge:

. . . forgive, and act, and give to everyone according to all his ways, whose heart You know (for You alone know the hearts of all the sons of men) . . . 1 Kings 8:39

Do you accept the words from scripture?

Is salvation possible without God's forgiveness?
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Scripture says forgiveness depends on both in multiple places:

. . . if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. Matthew 6:14-15 NKJV

Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. Luke 6:37

. . . as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive. Col 3:13

As far as salvation, God is the perfect judge:

. . . forgive, and act, and give to everyone according to all his ways, whose heart You know (for You alone know the hearts of all the sons of men) . . . 1 Kings 8:39

Do you accept the words from scripture?

Is salvation possible without God's forgiveness?
Nope. That was not my question. My question was is our salvation dependant on us forgiving others? It's a simple yes or no question.
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Yes. Deliberately holding grudges is not compatible with living faith.

Now please answer my questions.
There ya go. How many times have I asked?

The answer to your questions would be a yes and a no. See, that's how it works. I ask a question, you answer and then proceed to ask yours.
 

Theophilos

Active member
There ya go. How many times have I asked?

The answer to your questions would be a yes and a no. See, that's how it works. I ask a question, you answer and then proceed to ask yours.
You have not responded to my questions.

Do you believe that Christians are free to deliberately hold grudges and still expect forgiveness from God?

How does that belief agree with scripture? Or is it based a modern tradition?
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
You have not responded to my questions.

Do you believe that Christians are free to deliberately hold grudges and still expect forgiveness from God?

This is a good example of how subtle are the topics we choose to discuss, and how (IMO) too many people prefer to have a quick, simple, "black and white" answer.

Asking whether "Christians are free to hold grudges and still expect forgiveness from God?" is different than asking, "Can Christians hold grudges and still be saved?", or "Does holding grudges prevent you from being saved?"

Also, one should consider the difference between,
"Are we saved because we choose to let go of our grudges?", or
"Do we let go of our grudges because we are saved?"

And it sounds like your question begs the question of, "Do we have to be completely free from sin to be saved, or does any sin condemn us?"

In answer to your question in the way you phrased it, you are describing someone who is intentionally, voluntarily, defying God's command to forgive others. And defying God is a bad situation to be in. That would be different from, "I know we are to forgive, and I want to forgive him, but I'm having trouble with that."
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
"...on earth as it is in heaven."

Is it not true that every time the Calvinist prays the Lord's prayer they confess that God's will is not, in fact, being done here on earth? We don't have to pray that His will would be done in heaven; the Lord's prayer assumes that it is being done there, so we don't pray for it. We do pray that it would be done here, therefore, to some extent God's will is not being done here on earth.

Thoughts?
The Lord has a permissive will that allows for things to be done as they are right now, as this earth system is under dominion of Satan for now, but thank God that will end when Lord Jesus returns in His glory to reign!
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
Of course I am; but I suspect that you might not be as agreeable to the idea as you think you are. Is it possible for God to create a universe full of creatures that are endowed with free will?
He did originally, but Satan and Adam blew it, so now all of us have sin natures and out free will bound and constrained by them!
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
In Calvinism, whether a man sins or does what is righteous, God's will is always being done because he ordained everything which occurs and nothing can be done to change what occurs. Everything whichever occurs is God's will.

The most amazing thing is that Calvinists don't seem to have any idea how absurd this is in light of the Scriptures.
We at least agree with the scriptures that plainly state Jesus is God!
 
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