Is the one mediator between God and men Divine?

Y

Yahchristian

Well-known member
Yahchristian said:
Is the man Christ Jesus Divine?

1 Timothy 2:5... For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
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johnny guitar said:
NO.
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This is a big difference between my view and the view of some Trinitarians and Unitarians...

Some Trinitarians and Unitarians believe the one mediator between God and men is NOT Divine.

divine (definition 1a)... of, relating to, or proceeding directly from God

Whereas I believe the one mediator between God and men IS Divine.

I believe the spirit and soul of Jesus is a morphe of God and was NOT created by God.

I would like to know what everyone on this forum believes...

Is the one mediator between God and men Divine?

I say Yes.

1 Timothy 3:16... And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
 
1 Tim. 3:16 DOES NOT say "God was manifested in the flesh" but "he who was manifested in the flesh"

1 Tim. 3:16 Indeed, the sacred secret of this godly devotion is admittedly great: ‘He was made manifest in flesh, was declared righteous in spirit, appeared to angels, was preached about among nations, was believed upon in the world, was received up in glory.’

In modern translations and versions, the word GOD is not placed in that text, since it is well known that it was an incorrect reading of the Greek masculine singular article, which resembles the abbreviation for GOD in Greek. Many people ignore the issue even though it has been widely publicized; others deliberately evade it and continue to use the wrong version of the text to confuse people who are unaware of the matter.

In addition to the error that is well known, we know perfectly well that GOD has never manifested himself in the flesh, because Jesus himself, being on earth, in the form of flesh, said:

John 4:24 God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.”

See also 2 Cor. 3:17, 1 Tim. 1:17 and Heb. 11:27. Therefore, the idea behind that confusion is totally contrary to the teachings of Jesus himself and the rest of the Scriptures.
 
Lilel01 said:
1 Tim. 3:16 DOES NOT say "God was manifested in the flesh" but "he who was manifested in the flesh"
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No difference.

All the English Bible translations either have the word "God" or the pronoun "He" (which is referencing the word "God" in the previous verse).

1 Timothy 3:15-16 NKJV... But if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

1 Timothy 3:15-16 NIV... If I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth. Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great: He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.

Do you consider yourself a Unitarian? If not, what?

I agree with the Modal Monarchianism of the second century as explained by Melito of Sardis.

So you answer NO to my question...

Is the one mediator between God and men Divine?

I say YES.

I am curious to see how many Trinitarians agree with you and how many agree with me.
 
Of course there is a big difference in putting "he" or "God" in the text. "God" is not in inspired Scripture, and "he" refers to Jesus Christ, not God, as you could see from Jesus' own words.

When Jesus mentions GOD, he NEVER refers to one god of three or to himself. The word "God" appears several thousand times in the NT...tell me how many times does it refer to Jesus or a trinity of gods. In any case, it seems that trinitarians don't realize what GOD the NT is talking about... They are so influenced by trinitarian theologies that they can no longer realize biblical reality.

As for the mediator, that very text you quote says that there is only one GOD and one man who mediates between him and human beings. Jesus was a spirit, like the angels, before he was born as a human being, then lived as a human, then died, and then returned to heaven as a spirit. Jesus Christ now IS NOT A HUMAN BEING, but a powerful spirit next to God.

He fulfilled his role as mediator by being human and submitting to death as such. That is over, he is no longer human; he gave what he had to give to rescue human beings: his human blood and body (Phil. 2:5-8). He is now a person with totally different existential characteristics. His sacrifice is remembered in heaven and that is why he is pictured in the form of a man...but obviously he is no longer a man, as much as he is not a slaughtered lamb (Rev. 5:5-10). This is a description of him RIGHT NOW.

Heb. 1:3 He is the reflection of God’s glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power. And after he had made a purification for our sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high. 4 So he has become better than the angels to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs.

1 Tim. 6:14 (...) the manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which the happy and only Potentate will show in its own appointed times. He is the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, 16 the one alone having immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal might. Amen.
 
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Yahchristian said:
This is a big difference between my view and the view of some Trinitarians and Unitarians...

Some Trinitarians and Unitarians believe the one mediator between God and men is NOT Divine.

divine (definition 1a)... of, relating to, or proceeding directly from God

Whereas I believe the one mediator between God and men IS Divine.

I believe the spirit and soul of Jesus is a morphe of God and was NOT created by God.

I would like to know what everyone on this forum believes...

Is the one mediator between God and men Divine?

I say Yes.

1 Timothy 3:16... And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
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BOTH Human AND Divine.
Next question.....................
 
Lilel01 said:
Of course there is a big difference in putting "he" or "God" in the text. "God" is not in inspired Scripture, and "he" refers to Jesus Christ, not God, as you could see from Jesus' own words.

When Jesus mentions GOD, he NEVER refers to one god of three or to himself. The word "God" appears several thousand times in the NT...tell me how many times does it refer to Jesus or a trinity of gods. In any case, it seems that trinitarians don't realize what GOD the NT is talking about... They are so influenced by trinitarian theologies that they can no longer realize biblical reality.

As for the mediator, that very text you quote says that there is only one GOD and one man who mediates between him and human beings. Jesus was a spirit, like the angels, before he was born as a human being, then lived as a human, then died, and then returned to heaven as a spirit. Jesus Christ now IS NOT A HUMAN BEING, but a powerful spirit next to God.

He fulfilled his role as mediator by being human and submitting to death as such. That is over, he is no longer human; he gave what he had to give to rescue human beings: his human blood and body (Phil. 2:5-8). He is now a person with totally different existential characteristics. His sacrifice is remembered in heaven and that is why he is pictured in the form of a man...but obviously he is no longer a man, as much as he is not a slaughtered lamb (Rev. 5:5-10). This is a description of him RIGHT NOW.

Heb. 1:3 He is the reflection of God’s glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power. And after he had made a purification for our sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high. 4 So he has become better than the angels to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs.

1 Tim. 6:14 (...) the manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which the happy and only Potentate will show in its own appointed times. He is the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, 16 the one alone having immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal might. Amen.
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The HE of 3:15 clearly refers to God of v. 15.
Jesus is now and forever more A MAN.
He is The RADIANCE of God's glory, which means He is God, who ALONE radiates His glory.
 
johnny guitar said:
BOTH Human AND Divine.
Next question.....................
Click to expand...

1 Timothy 2:5... For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

I asked... Is the man Christ Jesus Divine?

YOU said... NO.

I asked... Is the one mediator between God and men Divine?

YOU said... BOTH Human AND Divine.

So you do NOT have the same answer for those two questions.

What do you say is the difference between the “one mediator between God and men” and “the man Christ Jesus”?

I say there is none.
 
Yahchristian said:
1 Timothy 2:5... For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

I asked... Is the man Christ Jesus Divine?

YOU said... NO.

I asked... Is the one mediator between God and men Divine?

YOU said... BOTH Human AND Divine.

So you do NOT have the same answer for those two questions.

What do you say is the difference between the “one mediator between God and men” and “the man Christ Jesus”?

I say there is none.
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NO!
Jesus Christ The Son of God is Divine.
The Son of God, The Son of Man, the eternal stumbling block to Jews, Islams, JW's cultists etc. etc.
The one mediator between God and men IS The Man, Christ Jesus.
 
johnny guitar said:
NO!
The one mediator between God and men IS The Man, Christ Jesus.
Click to expand...

You seem to be giving conflicting answers.

Can you give us your final answers...

1) Is the one mediator between God and men Divine? (I say Yes.)

1 Timothy 2:5... For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

2) Is the man Christ Jesus Divine? (I say Yes.)

1 Timothy 2:5... For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
 
Yahchristian said:
You seem to be giving conflicting answers.

Can you give us your final answers...

1) Is the one mediator between God and men Divine? (I say Yes.)

1 Timothy 2:5... For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

2) Is the man Christ Jesus Divine? (I say Yes.)

1 Timothy 2:5... For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
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1) Yes, although NOT revealed in 1 Timothy 2:5.
2)NO, Jesus Christ is Divine according to His Divinity as The Son of God.
 
johnny guitar said:
1) Yes, although NOT revealed in 1 Timothy 2:5.
2)NO, Jesus Christ is Divine according to His Divinity as The Son of God.
Click to expand...

Wow, okay...

You do NOT think this verse is telling us that the man Christ Jesus is the one mediator between God and men.

1 Timothy 2:5... For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

It seems obvious to me it is. But...

I am curious what your fellow Trinitarians think.

TRINITARIANS...

In 1 Timothy 2:5...

Is the phrase "mediator between God and men" synonymous with "the man Christ Jesus"?

I say Yes.
 
Yahchristian said:
Is the one mediator between God and men Divine?

1 Timothy 3:16... And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Click to expand...
yes
 
Yahchristian said:
Wow, okay...

You do NOT think this verse is telling us that the man Christ Jesus is the one mediator between God and men.

1 Timothy 2:5... For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

It seems obvious to me it is. But...

I am curious what your fellow Trinitarians think.

TRINITARIANS...

In 1 Timothy 2:5...

Is the phrase "mediator between God and men" synonymous with "the man Christ Jesus"?

I say Yes.
Click to expand...
The One mediator IS The Man Jesus Christ.
 
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