Pipiripi
Active member
The Roman Catholic Church
Is the Rapture in the Bible?
- Thread starter Pipiripi
- Start date
The irony is that in Revelation 20:1-6, Satan is defeated before Jesus resurrected those saints that went through the great tribulation period. That means Jesus is on earth when lining Zechariah 14:1-5 with Revelation 20:1-6 so there is no catching up at the end of the great tribulation when the rapture was before the great tribulation for why He is coming back with the saints at the end of the great tribulation.
leonard03782
Well-known member
what a waste of ten minutes that I will neve get back!
There are many anti-christs right now, but that son of perdition will not be revealed until halfway through the great tribulation.
1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
So the antichrist as it is used in scripture means "instead of Christ" or to be more precise, "instead of the Son". many believers have gone astray by putting the spotlight on visiting spirits in the worship place, assuming that is the Holy Spirit when He is in us and has neem in us since our salvation at the calling of the gospel when we had first believed in Jesus Christ.
This is the falling away from the faith spoken of for why God will judge His House first at the pre great tribulation rapture event. This is why He has been and still is warning believers to take heed to His words, leaning on Him for help to see and hear His words to apply them accordingly in these latter days where faith is heard to find.
So when they say the Holy Spirit is in the worship place that they can see the spirit visiting, & they feel His Presence coming over them even though they are saved believers, that is not the Holy Spirit but the spirit of the antichrist because the real Holy Spirit has been in you since salvation at the calling of the gospel by faith in Jesus Christ. So slain in the spirit & holy laughter and even Ernest Angeley's Healing Crusade that announces the "Holy Spirit" falling on already saved believers supposedly bringing healing, that is NOT the Holy Spirit ad they are workers of iniquity for why He will deny them per Matthew 7:13-27 & to avoid that iniquity is to keep your eyes on the Son in worship which the indwelling holy Spirit & scripture is leading us to do to avoid being left behind in Luke 13:24-30
That is right. Believers & churches are using the Trinity doctrine as an excuse to coming to God the father by instead of the Son but by the "Trinity" and by the Holy Spirit. They pray to the Holy Spirit and that spirit of the antichrist comes to receive after a sign, because it is a lie to believe you can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation for why God permit that strong delusion to occur.
So a lot of believers are out to the market seeking to be filled with oil when the prudent are wise, knowing they need not go out to the market for they are always filled as promised for coming to & believing in Jesus Christ for why there is no more hungering nor thirsting after God per John 6:35. That is why we are new wine bottles filled with new wine as a testimony from the Triune God that we are saved per Matthew 9:17.
So there are a lot of anti-christs out there, but only one son of perdition that will be revealed halfway through the great tribulation, but that great tribulation will be after the rapture and after the third of the earth getting burned up.
Since it is on God to cause the increase, you may never know until later in Heaven if that was a waste of 10 minutes or not. God may cause the increase later on. Since it is on the Lord Jesus Christ, pray that He will help him see the truth in His words since we are blessed with eyes that can see this truth in His words as we look to Him for help in laying aside every weight & sin daily to be found abiding in Him and be willing to go too..
Sometimes, we think we are reading what Jesus wants us to know and yet not all scripture aligns with what we thought He wanted us to see as the truth in His words. Since scripture cannot go against scripture, we should always be opened to being pruned by Him so we may bear more fruit.
John 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Pipiripi
Active member
Read the rapture theory with only your Bible!!
You do it.
Explain Luke 14:15-24 for why what Jesus has described as the times we are living in that believers would make excuses not to come to the Marriage Supper cannot apply to the end of the great tribulation when He comes as the King of kings? No believer would be tempted not to come to the Marriage Supper in Heaven to stay at the end of the great tribulation when their lives on earth has been miserable all that time during the great tribulation with Satan waging war on the saints.
Luke 14:15 And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God. 16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many: 17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready. 18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused. 19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused. 20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come. 21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind. 22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room. 23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled. 24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.
I mean really. Think about it with His help. The world's armies are marching against Jerusalem at the end of the great tribulation for why and when Jesus comes back as the King of kings, right? Hardly like a thief in the night.
Jesus coming as the Bridegroom to gather those abiding in Him for the Marriage Supper is the rapture that comes like a thief in the night.
Pipiripi
Active member
I think you didn't read it good. Just take the barrier out of your mind, and start reading again. Is the rapture theory BIBLICAL.
Then you will see that Jesus coming as a thief is not to take the church. Go read it again. Leave your teaching aside and see if there is something that you read is not written in the Bible or it is not in harmony with what the scriptures teach.
You can prove to me that you read it and understood it by applying His words that it has nothing to do with the rapture.
Explain Luke 14:15-24 for why what Jesus has described as the times we are living NOW in that believers would make excuses not to come to the Marriage Supper fir why it cannot apply to the end of the great tribulation when He comes as the King of kings?
No believer would be tempted not to come to the Marriage Supper in Heaven to stay at the end of the great tribulation when their lives on earth has been miserable all that time during the great tribulation with Satan waging war on the saints.
So ask Him when that Marriage Supper will be since the time He is describing is now; not for the end of the great tribulation.
Luke 14:15 And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God. 16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many: 17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready. 18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused. 19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused. 20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come. 21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind. 22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room. 23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled. 24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.
FYI, the Holy Spirit is Omnipresent! He dwells in all born again believers ( 1 Cor.6:19 )! He works through those believers ( the True Church or Bride of Christ ) to keep evil in check! So when 1 Thess.4:14-17 transpires, He is still present on earth as well in Heaven in those believers Glorified bodies! Thus the MOL ( AC ) in 2 Thess.2:1-8 can then REVEAL himself by confirming the covenant ( Peace Treaty in the Middle East ) with many ( Israel & the surrounding Muslim nations in Dan.9:27! Then the Jews can rebuild their Temple in the First half of that seven, while the Two Witnesses ( Not the Church that is in Heaven for the wedding of the Lamb - Jesus ) Prophecy as per Rev.11:2-15! When they finish the first half ( 3.5 years - the 1,260 days ), God removes His protection and the get killed and Raptured ( Mid Trib. ) to Heaven! Then the GREAT Trib. of 3.5 Years gets stated as the AC stops the sacrifice and exalts himself as God in the rebuilt Temple as per 2 Thess.2:4! At the END of the Great Trib., Jesus returns ( with His Bride ) as part of those Armies of Heaven as per Rev.19:11-21! They are dressed in white and NOT just the angels return with Him! Case & POINT - 1 Thess.4:17 says we will be WITH the LORD Forever and NOT left in Heaven for those 1000 Years that He REIGNS on planet earth as per Rev.20:1-6! Case Closed!
So the reason why the restrainer be taken out of the way is when saved believers err by believing the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation. It is for that reason God will permit that strong delusion to occur because they open themselves up to receive another Jesus, another spirit, hence another gospel.
Paul reminded them when we had received the sanctification of the Spirit & the belief of the truth at the calling of the gospel as the tradition taught of us so that those who hype another drink of the One Spirit to get tongues for private use or for those that hype receiving the Holy Spirit again for other reasons like "slain in the spirit" and "holy laughter" can know that it is not the Holy Spirit when He has been in us since salvation.
2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
Paul goes on to the 3rd chapter addressing those that have fallen away from the faith as still brothers for why we are commanded to withdraw from them to admonish them as brothers and not as enemies. 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7,14-15
So this damnation spoken of in 2 Thessalonians 2:12 are saved believers left behind to be resurrected after the great tribulation as "vessels unto dishonor" in His House, unless they repent before the Bridegroom comes.
So if believers suffer a thief to break thru believing they can receive what they assume is the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation, that strong delusion will occur. They are following a stranger's voice, tongues for private use, when His real gift of tongues can never be; 1 Corinthians 12:4-21 As much as they like to defend it, yet they cannot answer why the Holy Spirit would come again for slain in the spirit & holy laughter.
No good tree will produce an evil fruit & no bad tree can produce a good fruit. For those that use tongues for private use that condemn slain in the spirit and holy laughter as not of God, they just condemned that extra phenomena apart from salvation by how they got that tongue by.
Only the Lord can open the eyes of those that have gone astray, but this is why He is judging His House first at the rapture event, separating the vessels unto honor that are resurrected & received from the vessels unto dishonor left behind to be resurrected after the great tribulation.
Pipiripi
Active member
Again! If you didn't read the rapture theory only with your Bible, we cannot enter a friendly debate of love to understand and see what is the truth. I know your believing in God, but you don't know why my believe is BIBLICAL!! Why? Because you didn't read my thread only with the Bible!!
Well, you cited so many verses but you were applying them wrong. By addressing the few references I had given you to start with, is proof how you were applying them all wrong, but It seems the Lord may be leading me to address each reference of yours.
Your application of John 17:15 is not nulling and voiding the rapture event when God will judge His House first. Since scripture cannot go against scripture... then how do you apply this warning for believers to be ready or else?
Luke 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
Verse 34 & 35 is a warning to believers that they will be ensnared by the cares of this life that they will be caught unaware. How can what Jesus described apply to the end of the great tribulation? No believer would be tempted to stay at that time, right?
How can Jesus ask believers to pray to escape what is coming on the earth to stand before Him still align with how you are applying John 17:15 to mean? You can't.
Therefore John 17:15 is addressing believers in the world that we are living in now to help us through regular tribulation in the world, but STILL to pray to escape the coming fire on the earth & the eventual great tribulation as a result by not being snared by the world with His help so they are willing to leave when the Bridegroom comes.
Oh, and the rapture will not be quiet. After the rapture, the first angel will spread the gospel everywhere so all will have heard the gospel per Revelation 14:6-7. The second angel will announce the fall of Babylon, USA, which will include the western hemisphere as one third of the earth will burn up with fire per Revelation 14:8 with Revelation 8:9 & Revelation 18th chapter for more detail about the fall of Babylon with left behind saints dying in it. Then the third angel warns every one the consequence for taking the mark of the beast which is the lake of fire in Revelation 14:9-11.
By those 3 angels after the rapture, everyone will know the gospel, then the destruction that will bring about the new world order & the mark of the beast system to survive in the great tribulation that shall follow. This is the hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth.
So Luke 21:34-36 is for believers in the times we are living in now, to be praying that they are willing to go when the Bridegroom comes and to be found abiding in Him and not be getting drunk or engaging in a regular practice of living in sin thus not be ready to go when He comes.
Luke 17:15 applies to how we live now...for God to help us through our tribulations now, otherwise when do you apply Luke 21:34-36?
Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
These are saints abiding in Him to escape what is coming on the earth.
Below in Amos are the saints that walked in darkness for why they are left behind and "weeping and gnashing their teeth".
Amos 8:16 Therefore the Lord, the God of hosts, the Lord, saith thus; Wailing shall be in all streets; and they shall say in all the highways, Alas! alas! and they shall call the husbandman to mourning, and such as are skilful of lamentation to wailing. 17 And in all vineyards shall be wailing: for I will pass through thee, saith the Lord. 18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the Lord! to what end is it for you? the day of the Lord is darkness, and not light. 19 As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him. 20 Shall not the day of the Lord be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?
To expound on my application from Revelation 14th chapter; Revelation 14:1-5 testify of the 144,000 virgin men that speak no lies that has been redeemed from the earth to serve the Lord as His personal choir that follows Him around wherever He goes. That is not all that was raptured, but it does proceed the 3 angels in setting up the hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth in Revelation 14:6-11.
Don't forget the fall of Babylon in Revelation 14:8 where it is described in details but there are saints left behind to die in Revelation 18th chapter.
So that is how those 2 references of yours align with those references in Revelation, but only the Lord can help you see that.
For confirmation that the Lord is warning believers to be ready or else can be found in Luke 12:40-49 as well as Peter warned believers in 2 Peter 3rd chapter
I believe the Lord wants me to stop here rather than continue. I have begun to address your references and so it is time for our discussion to begin, otherwise you have no answer which only means you need to ask Jesus for wisdom regarding the matter.
Pipiripi
Active member
Show me which is wrong, and is not in accordance with the Bible.
Pipiripi
Active member
When someone say "I believe", let me see that they are not sure!! You must be sure that what you are saying is true and BIBLICAL!!
Read all my threads, because it will takes time for someone to see the true. When you are not open to see what the Bible says, and compare scripture with scripture. You will never understand the Bible.
It is true & I believe the rapture is when God will judge His House first as the Bridegroom, gathering saints that ae abiding in Him & are willing to go to the Marriage Supper above. leaving behind saved believers that loved this life more than Him to not to leave ( Luke 21:34-36 & Luke 14:15-24 ) as well as leaving behind workers of iniquity for why He would deny them ( Titus 1:15-16 & Luke 7:21-23 ) for not being ready ( Luke 12:40-49 ).
That is your way of not wanting to have a discussion with me by applying verses to the topic at hand, but to avoid the discussion altogether.
Have you read post #35 yet? I saw your response to post # 36 by your response on wishing to avoid the discussion altogether by sending me off to read all your posts, but not to post # 35.
Proverbs 27:17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.
There is no way for an iron to sharpen an iron if one iron is avoiding the discussion altogether. If you do not have an answer right now, that is okay. because you can take it to the Lord if there is something about those scripture references of mine that do not align with what you are applying other scriptures to mean thus indicative that you are overlooking something after all..