Is the Sacrifice of the Mass Performance in the RCC, the Same as the Sacrifice of the Cross?

organgrinder

Well-known member
Jesus asked us to perform the ritual in Memoriam at the Last Supper.
I suggest you do a real study on the Passover meal and the elements used in that meal, including the four cups of win. You will see how Jesus changed what those elements represented (bread and wine) and what they would now represent.
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
Sorr

Sorry, that should have been "we do NOT believe it is an actual sacrifice." Fat fingers this morning!
The Roman Catholic poster who use to be on here, but is no longer, was pretty close in what he told you about the Mass applying the graces needed by Roman Catholics. According to the RCC it is through the Mass that Christ communicates the graces he has won for men on the cross. They also believe it is the sacrament through which all the benefits of Christ's death are channeled to an individual person.
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
Its not the same as the cross. This is more smoke and mirrors. There is absolutely nothing in common between the actual sacrifice of Jesus on the cross and a priest holding up a piece of bread. Catholics have to convince themselves that it is the same. Self delusion at its best.
The RCC says that their Mass applies all the grace and salvation, power and merit of the Cross. What does that mean?
 

Bonnie

Super Member
The RCC says that their Mass applies all the grace and salvation, power and merit of the Cross. What does that mean?
I wonder...what about someone in a foreign country, who is in a jail, surrounded by atheists, or Muslims, and is a Christian...but has no one to give him the Lord's Supper...is that person damned, according to RCC theology?

while I do believe that the Lord's Supper is A means of grace--baptism is the other--it isn't the only means. So is the word of God, when the HS works faith in the person's heart through the Gospel message. When that person believes, that person is saved, with or without Communion or Holy Baptism. Paul told the Philippian jailer how to be saved: "BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved--you and your whole household." BELIEVE.
 
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Nondenom40

Super Member
I wonder...what about someone in a foreign country, who is in a jail, surrounded by atheists, or Muslims, and is a Christian...but has no one to give him the Lord's Supper...is that person damned, according to RCC theology?

while I do believe that the Lord's Supper is A means of grace--baptism is the other--it isn't the only means. so is the word of God, when the HS works faith in the person's heart through the Gospel message. When that person believes, that person is saved, with or without Communion or Holy Baptism. Paul told the Philippian jailer how to be saved: "BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved--you and your whole household." BELIEVE.
I love those verses in Acts 16:30ff. The gospel is that simple. Catholics totally destroy it with their many additions that they say are 'necessary' for salvation. For a religion that touts there is no salvation outside of it, its more like theres no salvation inside of it. The very thing it claims to have, they deny their followers then shame them if they think they are actually saved...the sin of presumption.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
I love those verses in Acts 16:30ff. The gospel is that simple. Catholics totally destroy it with their many additions that they say are 'necessary' for salvation. For a religion that touts there is no salvation outside of it, its more like theres no salvation inside of it. The very thing it claims to have, they deny their followers then shame them if they think they are actually saved...the sin of presumption.
Good points. No salvation outside of the RCC, and not really any inside of it, either--except for Catholics who put their trust in Jesus Christ to save them, and not in Mary or membership in the RCC.
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
Why are either of these rituals performed on a continuous basis in the Roman Catholic Church?
I don't see that the RCC teachings on the Sacrifice of the Mass are consistent with what the Bible teaches about the Sacrifice of Christ. How does the Roman Catholic interpretation match up with the Holy Scriptures?
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
What is the RCC's interpretation of Hebrews 7:26-27 in relation to the their priesthood?
"For it was fitting that we should have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens; who do not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself."
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
jonathan, Could you explain how and what makes the Mass a 'true sacrifice' and not just a continual ritual performed by the Roman Catholic Church?
 

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
jonathan, Could you explain how and what makes the Mass a 'true sacrifice' and not just a continual ritual performed by the Roman Catholic Church?
Sure, because it re-presents Jesus's sacrifice on a cross in a substantial (that is, physically and spiritually present) way.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
Sure, because it re-presents Jesus's sacrifice on a cross in a substantial (that is, physically and spiritually present) way.
The "Transsubstantiation" myth. OF course since "Trent" the foolishness that Each Element is contained in the other - i.e. Bread = Bread + wine was made official. With the additional foolishness that they don't give the cup, because since it's supposedly "Jesus blood", if they spilled it, that would be a TERRIBLE SACRILEGE.

More likely it's because Bread is Cheap, and Wine isn't.
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
I wonder...what about someone in a foreign country, who is in a jail, surrounded by atheists, or Muslims, and is a Christian...but has no one to give him the Lord's Supper...is that person damned, according to RCC theology?

while I do believe that the Lord's Supper is A means of grace--baptism is the other--it isn't the only means. So is the word of God, when the HS works faith in the person's heart through the Gospel message. When that person believes, that person is saved, with or without Communion or Holy Baptism. Paul told the Philippian jailer how to be saved: "BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved--you and your whole household." BELIEVE.
That is a very good thought provoking question Bonnie.
 

balshan

Well-known member
How does it 're-present' Jesus' sacrifice substantially, physically and spiritually? There is zero in common between your mass and what happened 2000 years ago. Its like watching The Wizard of Oz claiming its a re-presentation of Star Wars.
That is true, there is zero in common between the two.
 

balshan

Well-known member
I wonder...what about someone in a foreign country, who is in a jail, surrounded by atheists, or Muslims, and is a Christian...but has no one to give him the Lord's Supper...is that person damned, according to RCC theology?

while I do believe that the Lord's Supper is A means of grace--baptism is the other--it isn't the only means. So is the word of God, when the HS works faith in the person's heart through the Gospel message. When that person believes, that person is saved, with or without Communion or Holy Baptism. Paul told the Philippian jailer how to be saved: "BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved--you and your whole household." BELIEVE.
I read a book about a Muslim girl who became saved, no Lord's supper, no scripture as we understand it. But a vision of Jesus who spoke to her.
 

balshan

Well-known member
The Roman Catholic poster who use to be on here, but is no longer, was pretty close in what he told you about the Mass applying the graces needed by Roman Catholics. According to the RCC it is through the Mass that Christ communicates the graces he has won for men on the cross. They also believe it is the sacrament through which all the benefits of Christ's death are channeled to an individual person.
NT
 

mica

Well-known member
I read a book about a Muslim girl who became saved, no Lord's supper, no scripture as we understand it. But a vision of Jesus who spoke to her.
I've heard / read numerous testimonies of those saved in like circumstances - several of them were Muslims.
 
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