Is the Sacrifice of the Mass Performance in the RCC, the Same as the Sacrifice of the Cross?

RayneBeau

Well-known member
Sure, because it re-presents Jesus's sacrifice on a cross in a substantial (that is, physically and spiritually present) way.
And so then Roman Catholics believe that Christ's Sacrifice on the Cross is 'continued' on earth through the "Sacrifice of the Mass," is that correct?
 

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
How does it 're-present' Jesus' sacrifice substantially, physically and spiritually? There is zero in common between your mass and what happened 2000 years ago. Its like watching The Wizard of Oz claiming its a re-presentation of Star Wars.
Because Christ is present and the institution narrative of every Mass touches the institution narrative of Jesus during the Last Supper. It is similar to the way that every Passover re-presents the Exodus Passover.
 

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
The "Transsubstantiation" myth. OF course since "Trent" the foolishness that Each Element is contained in the other - i.e. Bread = Bread + wine was made official. With the additional foolishness that they don't give the cup, because since it's supposedly "Jesus blood", if they spilled it, that would be a TERRIBLE SACRILEGE.

More likely it's because Bread is Cheap, and Wine isn't.
The Real Presence has always meant that Christ is present in the Eucharist - not just Christ's body in one part and his blood in another part, but the entire Christ.

Actually, wine during the early modern period was just as cheap as bread. It was a very common drink amongst southern Europeans.
 

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
And so then Roman Catholics believe that Christ's Sacrifice on the Cross is 'continued' on earth through the "Sacrifice of the Mass," is that correct?
Not "continued", no. That would suggest that it extends in time. It doesn't. Jesus' sacrifice has happened once and for all. Rather, what the Mass does is gets in touch with that one sacrifice two thousand years ago and makes it real for us now.
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
Not "continued", no. That would suggest that it extends in time. It doesn't. Jesus' sacrifice has happened once and for all. Rather, what the Mass does is gets in touch with that one sacrifice two thousand years ago and makes it real for us now.
Why does the Roman Catholic Mass "get in touch with that one sacrifice 2,000 years ago and make it real for us now" - wasn't it real enough back then???? o_O And wasn't that "one sacrifice" an hour ago at the last Mass "real" enough?
 

Nondenom40

Super Member
Why does the Roman Catholic Mass "get in touch with that one sacrifice 2,000 years ago and make it real for us now" - wasn't it real enough back then???? o_O And wasn't that "one sacrifice" an hour ago at the last Mass "real" enough?
Their mass doesn't perfect like Jesus' true sacrifice does. Thats why they can eat it a 1000 times and they still aren't perfect.

Heb 10:12-14
2 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 waiting from that time onward until His enemies be made a footstool for His feet. 14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. NASB
 

mica

Well-known member
Their mass doesn't perfect like Jesus' true sacrifice does. Thats why they can eat it a 1000 times and they still aren't perfect.

Heb 10:12-14
2 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 waiting from that time onward until His enemies be made a footstool for His feet. 14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. NASB
look at that... one offering. yet the RCC thinks (and teaches) there needs to be more than that ONE offering. God doesn't know what He's doing or talking about but the RCC does?

catholics better figure a way to have the pope or magisterium with them on judgment day too.
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
Every priest is a mediator in some sense, yes.
Why is it that you believe that "every priest is a mediator in some sense," and why is it that Roman Catholics can not comprehend that in accordance with the change in the priesthood in the New Testament, through which the old order of ritual and sacrifice prefigured the atoning work of Christ has been fulfilled, and Christ alone has become our true High Priest, that the human priesthood, as a distinct and separate order of men, has fulfilled its function and has been abolished?
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
The Sacrifice of the Mass contains no blood. As such, it cannot be the SAME as Calvary.

There are several reasons for this pagan sacrifice of the Mass, most notably their profound ignorance of scripture.
Nan, have you ever heard or known of the Sacrifice of the Mass now being properly called the Sacrifice of the New Law, which is so called by this term now because it is the sacrifice in which Christ is offered under the species of bread and wine in an un-bloody manner [at the Roman Catholic Mass], thereby making it a 'true and proper act of sacrifice,' according to the Roman Catholic Church in their Question and Answer Catholic Catechism, #1265.
 

mica

Well-known member
Not "continued", no. That would suggest that it extends in time. It doesn't. Jesus' sacrifice has happened once and for all. Rather, what the Mass does is gets in touch with that one sacrifice two thousand years ago and makes it real for us now.
what evidence is there that this happens?

I'm in touch with that sacrifice and it didn't / doesn't happen at a catholic Mass.
 

mica

Well-known member
Nan, have you ever heard or known of the Sacrifice of the Mass now being properly called the Sacrifice of the New Law, which is so called by this term now because it is the sacrifice in which Christ is offered under the species of bread and wine in an un-bloody manner [at the Roman Catholic Mass], thereby making it a 'true and proper act of sacrifice,' according to the Roman Catholic Church in their Question and Answer Catholic Catechism, #1265.
it wasn't a 'true and proper act of sacrifice' prior to its new title?

when was that catechism made up? written? printed?
 

nan

Well-known member
Nan, have you ever heard or known of the Sacrifice of the Mass now being properly called the Sacrifice of the New Law, which is so called by this term now because it is the sacrifice in which Christ is offered under the species of bread and wine in an un-bloody manner [at the Roman Catholic Mass], thereby making it a 'true and proper act of sacrifice,' according to the Roman Catholic Church in their Question and Answer Catholic Catechism, #1265.
Can't say that I have. Looked it up at Barnes and Nobel. Lol. Not gonna waste my money.
it wasn't a 'true and proper act of sacrifice' prior to its new title?

when was that catechism made up? written? printed?
It was written by the late John A. Hardon, S.J. and published on 9/11/2013
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
Can't say that I have. Looked it up at Barnes and Nobel. Lol. Not gonna waste my money.

It was written by the late John A. Hardon, S.J. and published on 9/11/2013
I had never heard of the RCC Mass, being properly called the "Sacrifice of the New Law" either, but I learned that it was explained in that Q. & A. Catholic Catechism, and I'm not surprised that the RCC cunningly renamed it actually. I am sure that the RCC has gotten alot of flack over the years, with people asking in all honesty, how the RCC can call their Mass the same sacrifice as Calvary, yet unbloody, which obviously would NOT make it the same sacrifice. So, as the RCC always does, they came up with a new term in their ever-changing Roman Catholic theology to artfully 'blend' the "unbloody sacrifice" into their Mass, and still claim the Mass as being the same REAL salvific sacrifice of Christ on the Cross, performed in their church at every single "Mass" but with the 'blood-less' exception to Calvary's sacrifice with the real, life-giving blood our Savior shed on that horrific Cross.

Thank you mica for looking up the info on that book - that was very helpful and much appreciated.
 
Top