Is the Spirit of Christ, another way of saying Christ or the Spirit that belongs to Christ?

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Caroljeen

Well-known member

Is the Spirit of Christ, another way of saying Christ or is it the Spirit that belongs to Christ (meaning someone other than Christ)?​

Romans 8: 9-12 NIV​

9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.
10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness.
11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.

verse 9:
1. The Spirit of God lives in you. Would you say that this is the Holy Spirit because it is the spirit that belongs to God?
2. if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ. Paul is referring to the Spirit of God that lives in believers as the Spirit of Christ. If anyone doesn't have this Spirit (of God and of Christ) then they do not belong to Christ.
verse 10:
3. But if Christ is in you. Paul goes from speaking of the Spirit of Christ and shortens it to simply Christ. Paul is letting us know what the early church thought of the phrase "spirit of..." To Paul the "Spirit of Christ" means Christ. "Spirit of God" means God.

verse 10:
1. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead... Paul is saying that the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in the Roman christians. Since we know that God raised Christ from the dead. Romans 4:24, 10:9.
I think we can safely say that Paul is referring to the Spirit of the Father (Him=Father) which simply means the Father raised Jesus from the dead and therefore the Father must be in us.

Summary- Paul is saying that "the Spirit of Christ" is Christ. The Spirit of God or simply God lives in us. The Spirit of Christ or simply Christ lives in us. The Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead or simply the Father lives in us. But Paul doesn't differentiate between them but seems to consider this spirit he is talking about that resides in believers as being one Spirit. Eph 4:4 confirms this. One body and one Spirit. There is only one Spirit inhabiting those who belong to Christ, his body. Paul even gives a name to the Spirit in us, even Christ. Paul is speaking of one person, Christ, and applying all these different titles to him.

We should be able to follow Paul in interpreting exactly what he means when he uses "Spirit of..." whether it's a human spirit or angelic spirit or demonic spirit or the divine spirit. The "Spirit of..." simply means "..." (the name of the spirit that was designated).
 
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Manfred

Manfred

Well-known member
Caroljeen said:

Is the Spirit of Christ, another way of saying Christ or is it the Spirit that belongs to Christ (meaning someone other than Christ)?​

Romans 8: 9-12 NIV​

9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.
10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness.
11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.

verse 9:
1. The Spirit of God lives in you. Would you say that this is the Holy Spirit because it is the spirit that belongs to God?
2. if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ. Paul is referring to the Spirit of God that lives in believers as the Spirit of Christ. If anyone doesn't have this Spirit (of God and of Christ) then they do not belong to Christ.
verse 10:
3. But if Christ is in you. Paul goes from speaking of the Spirit of Christ and shortens it to simply Christ. Paul is letting us know what the early church thought of the phrase "spirit of..." To Paul the "Spirit of Christ" means Christ. "Spirit of God" means God.

verse 10:
1. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead... Paul is saying that the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in the Roman christians. Since we know that God raised Christ from the dead. Romans 4:24, 10:9.
I think we can safely say that Paul is referring to the Spirit of the Father (Him=Father) which simply means the Father raised Jesus from the dead and therefore the Father must be in us.

Summary- Paul is saying that "the Spirit of Christ" is Christ. The Spirit of God or simply God lives in us. The Spirit of Christ or simply Christ lives in us. The Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead or simply the Father lives in us. But Paul doesn't differentiate between them but seems to consider this spirit he is talking about that resides in believers as being one Spirit. Eph 4:4 confirms this. One body and one Spirit. There is only one Spirit inhabiting those who belong to Christ, his body. Paul even gives a name to the Spirit in us, even Christ. Paul is speaking of one person, Christ, and applying all these different titles to him.

We should be able to follow Paul in interpreting exactly what he means when he uses "Spirit of..." whether it's a human spirit or angelic spirit or demonic spirit or the divine spirit. The "Spirit of..." simply means "..." (the name of the spirit that was designated).
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13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. 15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.

Not someone other than Christ, but distinct.
10 these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. 11 For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. 13 And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.

16 For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
 
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Caroljeen

Well-known member
Manfred said:
13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. 15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.

Not someone other than Christ, but distinct.
10 these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. 11 For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. 13 And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.

16 For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
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Would you mind interacting with what I wrote in the OP?

As for the scriptures you used to reply back to me.
I recognize the distinctions of Father, Son and Spirit but not in the same way that you do.
The Spirit is God moving or doing something in a certain focal area, ie; the Spirit of God moved on the waters, or when we are baptized by the Spirit then the Spirit is moving locally on and in a human being, or the Spirit like a dove descended. Spirit is what God is so when the bible authors speak about the Spirit doing this or that, it is simply God doing this or that. The reason Jesus can speak of the Spirit as other than himself is because he is in the form of a man. He thinks of himself as human. He isn't omnipresent in his human form.
In a similar way, Jesus doesn't think of himself as being the Father because Jesus is human and the Father is God in the form of God (an omnipresent Spirit)

Now can you respond to what I wrote?

The Spirit of Christ according to Paul is Christ. So we can apply Paul's understanding and say that the Spirit of God is God. As for" the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead', well that could be God the Father (Gal 1:1), the Spirit of Christ (John 10: 17-18), or the Spirit of God (Romans 1:4). But according to Paul all 3 of these Spirit's (of God, of Christ, of him who raised Jesus from the dead) are the same Spirit. Think about it. You don't have to answer me if you don't want to.
 
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Caroljeen

Well-known member
New but related question:

John 4:21-24 “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

What do you think Jesus meant by God is spirit?
 
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101G

Well-known member
Caroljeen said:
verse 10:
1. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead... Paul is saying that the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in the Roman christians. Since we know that God raised Christ from the dead. Romans 4:24, 10:9.
I think we can safely say that Paul is referring to the Spirit of the Father (Him=Father) which simply means the Father raised Jesus from the dead and therefore the Father must be in us.
Click to expand...
Looking at your statement here, I have one question. "Was it not Jesus the Spirit himself who raised up his own body'?" supportive scripture,
John 2:18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
John 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
John 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
John 2:22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

it was the Lord Jesus himself that raised up his OWN BODY.
for the
Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of God. supportive scripture, Roman 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

and is Not the Spirit of Christ the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God in the OT?
1Pet 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1Pet 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

where was the Spirit of Christ? in, in, in, the prophets of old.

PICJAG, 101G.
 
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Caroljeen

Well-known member
101G said:
Looking at your statement here, I have one question. "Was it not Jesus the Spirit himself who raised up his own body'?" supportive scripture,
John 2:18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
John 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
John 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
John 2:22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

it was the Lord Jesus himself that raised up his OWN BODY.
for the
Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of God. supportive scripture, Roman 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

and is Not the Spirit of Christ the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God in the OT?
1Pet 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1Pet 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

where was the Spirit of Christ? in, in, in, the prophets of old.

PICJAG, 101G.
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There is only one divine Spirit.
 
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101G

Well-known member
Caroljeen said:
There is only one divine Spirit.
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Yes, and that's the Spirit of Christ who is the God of the OT, the Holy Spirit, "JESUS"

1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:"
1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow."

Where was the Spirit of Christ in the OT? in, in, in the prophets.

:ninja:
 
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SeventhDay

Well-known member
Caroljeen said:
Would you mind interacting with what I wrote in the OP?

As for the scriptures you used to reply back to me.
I recognize the distinctions of Father, Son and Spirit but not in the same way that you do.
The Spirit is God moving or doing something in a certain focal area, ie; the Spirit of God moved on the waters, or when we are baptized by the Spirit then the Spirit is moving locally on and in a human being, or the Spirit like a dove descended. Spirit is what God is so when the bible authors speak about the Spirit doing this or that, it is simply God doing this or that. The reason Jesus can speak of the Spirit as other than himself is because he is in the form of a man. He thinks of himself as human. He isn't omnipresent in his human form.
In a similar way, Jesus doesn't think of himself as being the Father because Jesus is human and the Father is God in the form of God (an omnipresent Spirit)

Now can you respond to what I wrote?

The Spirit of Christ according to Paul is Christ. So we can apply Paul's understanding and say that the Spirit of God is God. As for" the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead', well that could be God the Father (Gal 1:1), the Spirit of Christ (John 10: 17-18), or the Spirit of God (Romans 1:4). But according to Paul all 3 of these Spirit's (of God, of Christ, of him who raised Jesus from the dead) are the same Spirit. Think about it. You don't have to answer me if you don't want to.
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God is Spirit and there is one Spirit and that is Christ therefore Jesus is God and if God is the Father then Jesus is the Father but he is the Son as well. The Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father and that is God's oneness and God is a singular person or entity not a plurality of persons that the trinity doctrine teaches. Three God persons is still three Gods whether a plurality or not and scriptures do not teach that. God bless you. :)
 
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Caroljeen

Well-known member
101G said:
Yes, and that's the Spirit of Christ who is the God of the OT, the Holy Spirit, "JESUS"

1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:"
1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow."

Where was the Spirit of Christ in the OT? in, in, in the prophets.
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God is a spirit. That is WHAT God is. The spirit of God is everywhere, omnipresent.
 
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101G

Well-known member
Caroljeen said:
God is a spirit. That is WHAT God is. The spirit of God is everywhere, omnipresent.
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yes, and the Spirit..... Jesus was in the prophet prophesying of his coming in flesh. the word, JESUS, came and was in the prophets. scripture, Jeremiah 14:1 "The word of the LORD that came to Jeremiah concerning the dearth." this found over, and over in the bible, the "Word" came unto .... whichever prophet.

yes, God is everywhere, but he can reveal himself at or in any Spatial or time.

:ninja:
 
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bluedog1us

Well-known member
SeventhDay said:
God is Spirit and there is one Spirit and that is Christ therefore Jesus is God and if God is the Father then Jesus is the Father but he is the Son as well. The Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father and that is God's oneness and God is a singular person or entity not a plurality of persons that the trinity doctrine teaches. Three God persons is still three Gods whether a plurality or not and scriptures do not teach that. God bless you. :)
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At Jesus' baptizing, Jesus was there in person in the water, the Spiriit came to Him as a dove, while Jesus was still in the water, and God the Father spoke audibly, WHILE Jesus was in the water, visible for all to see, and the Spirit was descending on Jesus. ALL at exactly the SAME time. And there you have all 3 Persons of the Godhead present at the SAME place, at the SAME TIME. Live with it!
 
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SeventhDay

Well-known member
bluedog1us said:
At Jesus' baptizing, Jesus was there in person in the water, the Spiriit came to Him as a dove, while Jesus was still in the water, and God the Father spoke audibly, WHILE Jesus was in the water, visible for all to see, and the Spirit was descending on Jesus. ALL at exactly the SAME time. And there you have all 3 Persons of the Godhead present at the SAME place, at the SAME TIME. Live with it!
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No, just the one God in three roles of himself not three God persons. No such thing as three Gods. God said that there are no God's besides him Do you believe that? Three does not equal one so learn your math!

God bless you. :)
 
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bluedog1us

Well-known member
SeventhDay said:
No, just the one God in three roles of himself not three God persons. No such thing as three Gods. God said that there are no God's besides him Do you believe that? Three does not equal one so learn your math!

God bless you. :)
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So how did all of ONE Person manifest Himself three times at the same time? And why would He even do that? And why would He say in Genesis, "Let US create man in OUR own image". Ludicrous to say that if He were only one person. And to Whom was Jesus praying? Just Himself? And there are many more instances such as these. Why are you just ignoring them?
 
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SeventhDay

Well-known member
bluedog1us said:
So how did all of ONE Person manifest Himself three times at the same time? And why would He even do that? And why would He say in Genesis, "Let US create man in OUR own image". Ludicrous to say that if He were only one person. And to Whom was Jesus praying? Just Himself? And there are many more instances such as these. Why are you just ignoring them?
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What is the problem? God who is a person in personal roles of himself has roles that communicate with other but God is Spirit and there is one Spirit, and one spiritual body. God manifest himself in three distinct roles Father , Son, and Spirit personalized. However, the Spirit personalized is not another person but God who is Spirit. God bless you. :)
 
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SeventhDay

Well-known member
bluedog1us said:
So how did all of ONE Person manifest Himself three times at the same time? And why would He even do that? And why would He say in Genesis, "Let US create man in OUR own image". Ludicrous to say that if He were only one person. And to Whom was Jesus praying? Just Himself? And there are many more instances such as these. Why are you just ignoring them?
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Roles of God communicate so what is the problem? If you call God three God persons then one has a real problem and commits idolatry. Yes, what is difficult to understand about God manifesting himself in three roles at the same time?

God bless you. :)
 
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bluedog1us

Well-known member
SeventhDay said:
What is the problem? God who is a person in personal roles of himself has roles that communicate with other but God is Spirit and there is one Spirit, and one spiritual body. God manifest himself in three distinct roles Father , Son, and Spirit personalized. However, the Spirit personalized is not another person but God who is Spirit. God bless you. :)
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That is the heresy of Molalism.
 
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