Paul did not write Ephesians 4:5 during the time of John's baptism. There was only Christian baptism, and there is still only Christian baptism from God's perspective, which is the only perspective that counts.Part II
Um...actually...there are several. There is the baptism of John.
If you mean as in John 3 & 4, Paul didn't write in that time either. Paul wrote as an apostle of the Church to the Church.There is the baptism of Jesus.
There are instances where the word baptism is used analogically. You've hit upon one of those. Analogical uses of the word baptism are not literally baptisms they are literally analogies.There is the "...baptism by which I will be baptized..." of which Jesus spoke in his last days.
Yes, I call this baptism of the Holy Spirit which for clarity it abbreviate BHS. It's Holy Spirit power overwhelming the subject such that it's visible to the observer. As you can see it's literally a Holy Spirit miracle, and it's literally, and analogical use of the word baptism. What it's not is literally a baptism of any kind.And he spoke of this third baptism to those who had already been baptized with water as He had, and who were, in fifty short days, to be baptized with the Holy Spirit as He had been at the river with John...and there was a third baptism they were to face.
I read it about seven times in a good year from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21. I don't think I'm filtering.If you can, you need to re-read your scripture without your filter.
I don't know what anybody but me knows, but the bible unambiguously teaches there is only one baptism [Ephesians 4:5]. It's performed in water [Acts 8:36-39]. Baptism is symbolic [Romans 6:1-7]. It's the moment God grants the gifts of grace the forgiveness of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit [ Matthew 28:19-20; Mark 16:15-16; John 3:3-5; Acts 2:38-39; Acts 22:16; Romans 6:3-4; 1 Corinthians 12:13; Galatians 3:26-27; Ephesians 5:25-27; Colossians 2:11-13; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 3:21]. And I know that a lot of people mistake analogical uses of the word baptism for literal baptisms, which is a mistake that no one who knows the definition of the word "analogy" should make.Luke makes a clear distinction between the two baptisms and mentions the third...but every one of the cessationist authors I've read ignores these distinctions.
Of course you are not, I understand complete. I write this without a hint of irony. It's easy to be misunderstood in this kind of a venue.(For the record, in seminary I read Dale Bruner, Anthony Hoekema, John MacArthur, Merrill Unger...and another whose name escapes me. Since seminary, I was taught in France by Jules-Marcel Nicole at l'Institut Biblique de Nogent...one of the greatest professors I've ever had, and an otherwise staunch cessationist...who allowed, with me as a witness in his class, that there was room to learn. He had been teaching Calvinism there as the first step to studying theology for sixty years. I've re-read MacArthur, because his egregious error keeps coming back, I published a refutation of Hanegraaff before he became Orthodox, and I've read and written extensively on Chantry. I'm not obsessed, btw.
I'd like to read it.In seminary, I wrote a systematic theology on tongues as part of an assignment.
Not at all. It's important for me to know. It's clear to me you've thought this out.Since, I have had many cessationist friends who have asked me my opinion in light of these writings.) I add my credentials not to boast...but because I want you to know that, like you, I have studied to reach the conclusions I've reached.
I love agreement.He spoke out against an artificial sectarianism...where the sower is distinguished from the husbandman who waters. He was speaking to the vine. I don't want to belabor this, because I believe we agree here.
God bless you for your sensitivity. But from this I'm assuming the systematic theology on tongues you wrote was in French?I was in an Action Biblique church. The mandate is to them, be as one of them. That was my intent, and the effort I made in the congregation. I had not been told that the one group of evangelicals had rejected fellowship with the other.
For the record, and off to the side, the gift I've had and practiced since 1970 is used and practiced according to Paul's clear doctrine...Let me put it this way...You're having difficulty with my cryptic English. I'd never give you the French translation, hoping you'd get it better...unless you speak French. I do not speak in tongues publicly, unless told to do so...and that has only happened once, when missionaries were being ordained and commissioned to Haiti, and I was given a word to speak to them in French...I knew it was French, but the congregation mistook it for another tongue. But, unbeknownst to me, it was a word that was directly given in confirmation to prayers that the couple had been praying, and they received that word with confidence.
I have never uttered a word in a congregation that I myself did not understand. And I pray daily in tongues as I'm free to pray. I have too often to be discounted been in congregations where a word in a tongue was uttered...and the interpretation was in response to questions I had asked, and understanding I was seeking...and always this drove me back to the scriptures for more. This is actually the root of my own training.
Grin . . .There is room in the body for children...and sometimes children are in very old bodies...
Likewise. One of us may put a pebble in the others shoe.You're right about that...and Paul was also the one who had planted, and watered...we know of two visits to that neighborhood. He was their apostle. I'm not even a pastor or a teacher, I do not see my job as to correct you...but to supply the insights I've had for you to judge and respond to. I do not want to correct you here, but I enjoy the conversation.
That is a beautiful analogy.And I'm not going to try to convince you...but I will say this: The seed has everything in it that the plant will become...when the seed is given its share of soil, water, warmth and light. The Word has never been apart from the Scripture...and He is only alive in us that has been planted...God bless the soil in which He dwells.
Thank you for giving enough context to help me understand your perspective. God bless.We agree. Thank you for your patience. I have such limited time to respond lately...