is the world as you see it really the only way things are?

SteveB

Well-known member
There's an idea in psychology, which also has a development of thought in philosophy known as solipsism.
From Mirriam Webster
: a theory holding that the self can know nothing but its own modifications and that the self is the only existent thing also : extreme egocentrism





Solipsism and the Problem of Other Minds​


Solipsism is sometimes expressed as the view that “I am the only mind which exists,” or “My mental states are the only mental states.” However, the sole survivor of a nuclear holocaust might truly come to believe in either of these propositions without thereby being a solipsist. Solipsism is therefore more properly regarded as the doctrine that, in principle, “existence” means for me my existence and that of my mental states. Existence is everything that I experience — physical objects, other people, events and processes — anything that would commonly be regarded as a constituent of the space and time in which I coexist with others and is necessarily construed by me as part of the content of my consciousness. For the solipsist, it is not merely the case that he believes that his thoughts, experiences, and emotions are, as a matter of contingent fact, the only thoughts, experiences, and emotions. Rather, the solipsist can attach no meaning to the supposition that there could be thoughts, experiences, and emotions other than his own. In short, the true solipsist understands the word “pain,” for example, to mean “my pain.” He cannot accordingly conceive how this word is to be applied in any sense other than this exclusively egocentric one.

I think a perfect example of solipsism here on this forum is the inability of atheists to realize that others have a worldview which differs from theirs, and that our way of observing reality has absolutely nothing to do with them, or their views.....
Thus, their most commonly used phrase is-- strawmanning-- to accuse the other person of misrepresenting them.
Where I come from, this is a form of solipsism, which means that there can be no other views, than that of the atheist mindset.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
So you don't understand solipsism or atheism.

Solipsism is the view that one's own mental experience is all that exists, i.e. it is a denial of both the external world and of other minds. It has nothing to do with intolerance of different mindsets.

Atheism is the absence of belief in any god, and also has nothing to do with intolerance of different mindsets.

You are regularly accused of strawmanning because that is what you do. You are of course free to have your own opinions, but that does not entitle you to make blatantly false claims about what others have said to you.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
So you don't understand solipsism or atheism.

Solipsism is the view that one's own mental experience is all that exists, i.e. it is a denial of both the external world and of other minds. It has nothing to do with intolerance of different mindsets.

Atheism is the absence of belief in any god, and also has nothing to do with intolerance of different mindsets.

You are regularly accused of strawmanning because that is what you do. You are of course free to have your own opinions, but that does not entitle you to make blatantly false claims about what others have said to you.
But in the Final analysis, Since there IS a God, and He DOES have specific requirements for humans, then what "Atheists"/"Agnostics"/whomever think, believe, or strongly support, doesn't mean SPIT. The "Wisdom of FOOLS" is unimportant.
 

Electric Skeptic

Well-known member
There's an idea in psychology, which also has a development of thought in philosophy known as solipsism.
From Mirriam Webster
: a theory holding that the self can know nothing but its own modifications and that the self is the only existent thing also : extreme egocentrism





Solipsism and the Problem of Other Minds​


Solipsism is sometimes expressed as the view that “I am the only mind which exists,” or “My mental states are the only mental states.” However, the sole survivor of a nuclear holocaust might truly come to believe in either of these propositions without thereby being a solipsist. Solipsism is therefore more properly regarded as the doctrine that, in principle, “existence” means for me my existence and that of my mental states. Existence is everything that I experience — physical objects, other people, events and processes — anything that would commonly be regarded as a constituent of the space and time in which I coexist with others and is necessarily construed by me as part of the content of my consciousness. For the solipsist, it is not merely the case that he believes that his thoughts, experiences, and emotions are, as a matter of contingent fact, the only thoughts, experiences, and emotions. Rather, the solipsist can attach no meaning to the supposition that there could be thoughts, experiences, and emotions other than his own. In short, the true solipsist understands the word “pain,” for example, to mean “my pain.” He cannot accordingly conceive how this word is to be applied in any sense other than this exclusively egocentric one.

I think a perfect example of solipsism here on this forum is the inability of atheists to realize that others have a worldview which differs from theirs, and that our way of observing reality has absolutely nothing to do with them, or their views.....
Thus, their most commonly used phrase is-- strawmanning-- to accuse the other person of misrepresenting them.
Where I come from, this is a form of solipsism, which means that there can be no other views, than that of the atheist mindset.
I've never seen such a poor understanding of what solipism is.

I'd say I've never seen such a poor understanding of what atheism is, too, except on this forum I've seen some very poor understandings indeed of what atheism.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
I've never seen such a poor understanding of what solipism is.

I'd say I've never seen such a poor understanding of what atheism is, too, except on this forum I've seen some very poor understandings indeed of what atheism.
Yeah, it's just Steve looking for a new way of blaming anyone but himself for his inability to respond to others without misrepresenting them.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
I've never seen such a poor understanding of what solipism is.

I'd say I've never seen such a poor understanding of what atheism is, too, except on this forum I've seen some very poor understandings indeed of what atheism.
Atheism is so poorly understood because atheists resent answering probative questions which don't agree with the pre-approved list, nobody but atheists know about.
So, the fact you don't understand solipsism isn't really a problem for me either.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
Atheism is so poorly understood because atheists resent answering probative questions which don't agree with the pre-approved list, nobody but atheists know about.
So, the fact you don't understand solipsism isn't really a problem for me either.
Atheism and solipsism are poorly understood by you because you don't listen or take the time to learn.
 

Electric Skeptic

Well-known member
Atheism is so poorly understood because atheists resent answering probative questions which don't agree with the pre-approved list, nobody but atheists know about.
Blatantly and obviously false. Atheism is poorly understood by SOME because they have no interest whatsoever in learning about it; they just want to attack it and atheism.

There is no "pre-approved list", nor can you find any question that atheists "resent" answering.
So, the fact you don't understand solipsism isn't really a problem for me either.
The fact that you baselessly imagine that I don't understand solipism isn't a problem for me at all.
 

Komodo

Well-known member
There's an idea in psychology, which also has a development of thought in philosophy known as solipsism.
From Mirriam Webster
: a theory holding that the self can know nothing but its own modifications and that the self is the only existent thing also : extreme egocentrism





Solipsism and the Problem of Other Minds​


Solipsism is sometimes expressed as the view that “I am the only mind which exists,” or “My mental states are the only mental states.” However, the sole survivor of a nuclear holocaust might truly come to believe in either of these propositions without thereby being a solipsist. Solipsism is therefore more properly regarded as the doctrine that, in principle, “existence” means for me my existence and that of my mental states. Existence is everything that I experience — physical objects, other people, events and processes — anything that would commonly be regarded as a constituent of the space and time in which I coexist with others and is necessarily construed by me as part of the content of my consciousness. For the solipsist, it is not merely the case that he believes that his thoughts, experiences, and emotions are, as a matter of contingent fact, the only thoughts, experiences, and emotions. Rather, the solipsist can attach no meaning to the supposition that there could be thoughts, experiences, and emotions other than his own. In short, the true solipsist understands the word “pain,” for example, to mean “my pain.” He cannot accordingly conceive how this word is to be applied in any sense other than this exclusively egocentric one.

I think a perfect example of solipsism here on this forum is the inability of atheists to realize that others have a worldview which differs from theirs, and that our way of observing reality has absolutely nothing to do with them, or their views.....
Thus, their most commonly used phrase is-- strawmanning-- to accuse the other person of misrepresenting them.
Where I come from, this is a form of solipsism, which means that there can be no other views, than that of the atheist mindset.
If you accuse "the other person" of misrepresenting you, you are acknowledging the existence of "other persons." But according to the passage you are quoting, a solipsist does not and cannot do that; he does not believe "that there could be thoughts, experiences, and emotions... other than his own." If there are no thoughts, experiences and emotions other than his own, then there are no persons other than himself, since to be a person is to have thoughts, experiences and emotions. So it makes no sense to say that accusing "other people" (even falsely!) of strawmanning is "a form of solipsism."

Now it's possible you are just using the word "solipsism" in its second dictionary sense: "extreme egotism." A "solipsist" in this sense would acknowledge other people's thoughts, but act as if only his own thoughts have any value. Is this what you're doing here? If so, why did you bother quoting at length from the passage that used "solipsism" in the first dictionary sense, a denial of other people and their thoughts?

Moreover, there's no reason why the particular accusation, "you are strawmanning," counts as evidence of such egotism. If an extreme egotist is determined to disparage other people's thoughts, wouldn't they be more likely to say "you're ignorant" or "you have no Discernment" rather than "you're strawmanning"? An accusation of "strawmanning" is much narrower; it just means "in this case, you have misrepresented me," not "you are incapable of understanding me."

So I have to wonder how the people "where [you] come from" managed to come up with such odd ideas.
 
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The Pixie

Well-known member
Atheism is so poorly understood because atheists resent answering probative questions which don't agree with the pre-approved list, nobody but atheists know about.
So, the fact you don't understand solipsism isn't really a problem for me either.
How much effort does it really take to understand "there is no god"? That is literally all there is to atheism. If you think that that is poorly understood, that just reflects your own ability to comprehend.
 

Mr Laurier

Well-known member
There's an idea in psychology, which also has a development of thought in philosophy known as solipsism.
From Mirriam Webster
: a theory holding that the self can know nothing but its own modifications and that the self is the only existent thing also : extreme egocentrism





Solipsism and the Problem of Other Minds​


Solipsism is sometimes expressed as the view that “I am the only mind which exists,” or “My mental states are the only mental states.” However, the sole survivor of a nuclear holocaust might truly come to believe in either of these propositions without thereby being a solipsist. Solipsism is therefore more properly regarded as the doctrine that, in principle, “existence” means for me my existence and that of my mental states. Existence is everything that I experience — physical objects, other people, events and processes — anything that would commonly be regarded as a constituent of the space and time in which I coexist with others and is necessarily construed by me as part of the content of my consciousness. For the solipsist, it is not merely the case that he believes that his thoughts, experiences, and emotions are, as a matter of contingent fact, the only thoughts, experiences, and emotions. Rather, the solipsist can attach no meaning to the supposition that there could be thoughts, experiences, and emotions other than his own. In short, the true solipsist understands the word “pain,” for example, to mean “my pain.” He cannot accordingly conceive how this word is to be applied in any sense other than this exclusively egocentric one.

I think a perfect example of solipsism here on this forum is the inability of atheists to realize that others have a worldview which differs from theirs, and that our way of observing reality has absolutely nothing to do with them, or their views.....
Thus, their most commonly used phrase is-- strawmanning-- to accuse the other person of misrepresenting them.
Where I come from, this is a form of solipsism, which means that there can be no other views, than that of the atheist mindset.
You have a gift for getting everything wrong.
Solipsism is the trick creationists use to try to get non-creationists to deny observable reality.
 

Mr Laurier

Well-known member
Atheism is so poorly understood because atheists resent answering probative questions which don't agree with the pre-approved list, nobody but atheists know about.
So, the fact you don't understand solipsism isn't really a problem for me either.
This is a pile of lies.
Atheism is well understood by everyone who does not force themselves to not understand. No atheist has ever resented "probative" questions. Nor does any atheist have a "pre-approved list".
The fact that we all understand solipsism, and recognize it as the dishonest tactic that it is.... is a serious problem for you.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
This is a pile of lies.
Atheism is well understood by everyone who does not force themselves to not understand. No atheist has ever resented "probative" questions. Nor does any atheist have a "pre-approved list".
The fact that we all understand solipsism, and recognize it as the dishonest tactic that it is.... is a serious problem for you.
I'm not the one who is constantly seeking to justify ignorance of the whole of reality, when it's so readily able to be learned.
 

Mr Laurier

Well-known member
I'm not the one who is constantly seeking to justify ignorance of the whole of reality, when it's so readily able to be learned.
You are the one trying to pretend that someone else is though.
Alas for you, the strawman you create is far too obvious. Nobody buys it.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
And yet you ignore the points you don't like.
And I'm sure you have examples ready, right? I mean, you wouldn't just throw an accusation like this out there with zero support, right?

You seem to be taking a long time drafting that apology too...
 

Tercon

Well-known member
I've never seen such a poor understanding of what solipism is.

I'd say I've never seen such a poor understanding of what atheism is, too, except on this forum I've seen some very poor understandings indeed of what atheism.
Yeah, it's just Steve looking for a new way of blaming anyone but himself for his inability to respond to others without misrepresenting them.
we have never seen such a poor understanding of the truth and reality, atheist think their atheism exists in reality, when in reality it is only beliefs that can be known to exist you sillies.
 

Electric Skeptic

Well-known member
we have never seen such a poor understanding of the truth and reality, atheist think their atheism exists in reality, when in reality it is only beliefs that can be known to exist you sillies.
Completely irrelevant to the thread. Try to stay on topic.
 
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