Is there election without belief?

Tercon

Well-known member
These are your words.

1. I did not misrepresent anyone. Neither did the person you are accusing. He stated facts that you don't want to address.

2. Your statements about knowing 'how' God chooses, isn't clear at all. As the other Poster observed, your statements are without a Biblical basis.

He chooses by believing in and for all who believe, as if your faith and belief didn't originate in and with God, then He doesn't know you and nor you Him. You don't seem to understand the Bible at all, but find yourself tangled up in and with the same kind of religious nonsense the Pharisees found themselves.

3. No Biblical basis equals no Biblical understanding.

More misrepresenting what I believe and the Bible.

And why don't you try answering one question.
Here's one: if you don't attribute your faith and belief's origin to God, then just to what and whom do you attribute your faith and belief's origin?
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
He chooses by believing in and for all who believe, as if your faith and belief didn't originate in and with God, then He doesn't know you and nor you Him. You don't seem to understand the Bible at all, but find yourself tangled up in and with the same kind of religious nonsense the Pharisees found themselves.



More misrepresenting what I believe and the Bible.

And why don't you try answering one question.
Here's one: if you don't attribute your faith and belief's origin to God, then just to what and whom do you attribute your faith and belief's origin?

It's an interesting POV, but not biblical.

I do attribute my salvation to the biblical God and ONLY God.

You've been trying out your theory for months, but you haven't changed the mind of anyone whether Arminian or Calvinist. There is a reason for that.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
It's an interesting POV, but not biblical.

Not true and illogical. Show me a Bible verse that says that God doesn't believe and disbelieves. Or Biblical faith and belief didn't originate in and from God. You are deceived.

I do attribute my salvation to the biblical God and ONLY God.

If you don't believe in the Way Christ believes and makes God known and everything else known to occur, then how is your faith and belief of "the biblical God and ONLY God"?

You've been trying out your theory for months, but you haven't changed the mind of anyone whether Arminian or Calvinist. There is a reason for that.

All believers believe that God believes, that's how and why He is known to the believer, because outside or without belief there is nothing known to exist or occur to anyone. That's God's model and belief always existed and occurred in God. And to suggest otherwise is self-refuting.

There are two kinds of unbelievers. There is the atheist, who their mark of unbelief was chosen by themselves.
And then there is "the wolves", those who pretend to know God, but can't tell you how He is known outside or without belief, because they have rejected and deny His Way and means by which He makes Himself known to the believer.
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
Not true and illogical. Show me a Bible verse that says that God doesn't believe and disbelieves. Or Biblical faith and belief didn't originate in and from God. You are deceived.



If you don't believe in the Way Christ believes and makes God known and everything else known to occur, then how is your faith and belief of "the biblical God and ONLY God"?



All believers believe that God believes, that's how and why He is known to the believer, because outside or without belief there is nothing known to exist or occur to anyone. That's God's model and belief always existed and occurred in God. And to suggest otherwise is self-refuting.

There are two kinds of unbelievers. There is the atheist, who their mark of unbelief was chosen by themselves.
And then there is "the wolves", those who pretend to know God, but can't tell you how He is known outside or without belief, because they have rejected and deny His Way and means by which He makes Himself known to the believer.

Here we go. You have no scripture to prove your personal theology, so you start with the implication that anyone who doesn't share your theology is a wolf in sheep's clothing.

You are without biblical support.

Good luck with that.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Here we go. You have no scripture to prove your personal theology, so you start with the implication that anyone who doesn't share your theology is a wolf in sheep's clothing.
You are without biblical support.

Good luck with that.

I don't need luck silly, because the truth and reality of God is on my side.

You should be ashamed of yourself, you are misrepresenting God and the Bible, because I do have verses that say and also suggest that God believes and belief and faith originated in and with God.

And if you disbelieve that faith and belief originated in and with God, then how is it possible that your faith and belief is in or of God?

And now apart from law hath the righteousness of God been manifested, testified to by the law and the prophets, and the righteousness of God [is] through the faith of Jesus Christ to all, and upon all those believing, -- for there is no difference, for all did sin, and are come short of the glory of God -- being declared righteous freely by His grace through the redemption that [is] in Christ Jesus, whom God did set forth a mercy seat, through the faith in his blood, for the shewing forth of His righteousness, because of the passing over of the bygone sins in the forbearance of God -- for the shewing forth of His righteousness in the present time, for His being righteous, and declaring him righteous who [is] of the faith of Jesus. (Romans 3:21-26)

we by nature Jews, and not sinners of the nations, having known also that a man is not declared righteous by works of law, if not through the faith of Jesus Christ, also we in Christ Jesus did believe, that we might be declared righteous by the faith of Christ, and not by works of law, wherefore declared righteous by works of law shall be no flesh.' (Galatians 2:15-17)

the law, then, [is] against the promises of God? -- let it not be! for if a law was given that was able to make alive, truly by law there would have been the righteousness, but the Writing did shut up the whole under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ may be given to those believing. And before the coming of the faith, under law we were being kept, shut up to the faith about to be revealed, (Galatians 3:21-23)

yes, indeed, and I count all things to be loss, because of the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, because of whom of the all things I suffered loss, and do count them to be refuse, that Christ I may gain, and be found in him, not having my righteousness, which [is] of law, but that which [is] through faith of Christ -- the righteousness that is of God by the faith, to know him, and the power of his rising again, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being conformed to his death, if anyhow I may attain to the rising again of the dead. (Philippians 3:8-12)

And having the same spirit of the faith, according to that which hath been written, `I believed, therefore I did speak;' we also do believe, therefore also do we speak; knowing that He who did raise up the Lord Jesus, us also through Jesus shall raise up, and shall present with you, for the all things [are] because of you, that the grace having been multiplied, because of the thanksgiving of the more, may abound to the glory of God; (2 Corinthians 4:1-15)

And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. (1 John 4:16)

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. (1 John 5:1)

Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? (1 John 5:5)

He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. (1 John 5:10)

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. (1 John 5:13)

Now without it is impossible to please God, for the one who draws near to Him must believe that He exists and rewards those who seek Him. (Hebrews 11:6)

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.(Acts 16:31)

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. (John 3:16)

and the righteousness of God [is] through the faith of Jesus Christ to all, and upon all those believing, -- for there is no difference, (Romans 3:22)

and to him who is not working, and is believing upon Him who is declaring righteous the impious, his faith is reckoned -- to righteousness: even as David also doth speak of the happiness of the man to whom God doth reckon righteousness apart from works: `Happy they whose lawless acts were forgiven, and whose sins were covered; happy the man to whom the Lord may not reckon sin.' [Is] this happiness, then, upon the circumcision, or also upon the uncircumcision -- for we say that the faith was reckoned to Abraham -- to righteousness? how then was it reckoned? he being in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision; and a sign he did receive of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith in the uncircumcision, for his being father of all those believing through uncircumcision, for the righteousness also being reckoned to them, and father of circumcision to those not of circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of the faith, that [is] in the uncircumcision of our father Abraham. (Romans 4:5-12)

And he hath believed in Jehovah, and He reckoneth it to him (Abraham) – righteousness. (Genesis 15:6)

And having the same spirit of the faith, according to that which hath been written, `I believed, therefore I did speak;' we also do believe, therefore also do we speak; (2 Corinthians 4:13)

having known also that a man is not declared righteous by works of law, if not through the faith of Jesus Christ, also we in Christ Jesus did believe, that we might be declared righteous by the faith of Christ, and not by works of law, wherefore declared righteous by works of law shall be no flesh.' (Galatians 2:16)

but the Writing did shut up the whole under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ may be given to those believing. (Galatians 3:22)

let no one despise thy youth, but a pattern become thou of those believing in word, in behaviour, in love, in spirit, in faith, in purity; (1 Timothy 4:11-13)

By faith Enoch was translated -- not to see death, and was not found, because God did translate him; for before his translation he had been testified to -- that he had pleased God well, and apart from faith it is impossible to please well, for it behoveth him who is coming to God to believe that He is, and to those seeking Him He becometh a rewarder. (Hebrews 11:5-7)

who through him do believe in God, who did raise out of the dead, and glory to him did give, so that your faith and hope may be in God. (1 Peter 1:21)
 
Top