Is Voodoo Practiced in the Vatican?

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
Here's a source for you from one of your own Roman Catholic Apologists: Robert Sungenis, reacting to Roman Catholic Pope John Paul II's ecumenical "gathering," written in an article for Catholic Apologetics International, in which he wrote:

"If the pope believes a world religion can pray for physical and spiritual blessings as a mutual concern with Catholics, then it appears he must also believe that the pagan has an established, not just incidental, relationship with God, to the point where God would hear the prayers of a pagan the same as he would hear the prayers of any faithful Catholic. Moreover, it suggests that God is not the least bit disturbed by the pagan's worship of false gods and sinful lifestyle, nor the least bit disturbed that the Catholic is not discouraging the pagan from his false worship and lifestyle."

Robert Sungenis, "A No, No to Assisi - Another Loyal Son Protests," Catholic Apologetics International, June 14, 2002.
He's welcome to hold that view. But I'm not talking about the pope praying alongside people of other faiths, I'm taking about that voodoo incident you mentioned. Can I see source evidence for that, please?
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
He's welcome to hold that view. But I'm not talking about the pope praying alongside people of other faiths, I'm taking about that voodoo incident you mentioned. Can I see source evidence for that, please?
Stop stalling and just answer the questions asked: - Is this what JP II's supposed predecessor Peter would have done? What about Jesus - how did that honor Him?
 

balshan

Well-known member
He's welcome to hold that view. But I'm not talking about the pope praying alongside people of other faiths, I'm taking about that voodoo incident you mentioned. Can I see source evidence for that, please?
Really so you are saying it is okay to pray to Buddha, the Muslim God, the Voodoo gods etc. Praying alongside means you are praying with them. This has been a major problem with the RCC it is syncretize with other religions.

By the way answer questions instead of belittling other posters or asking a diverting question.
 

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
Stop stalling and just answer the questions asked: - Is this what JP II's supposed predecessor Peter would have done? What about Jesus - how did that honor Him?
I don't even know that he did that. Where's the evidence (apart from a book you cited from authors that can't stand JPII from the outset)?
 

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
Really so you are saying it is okay to pray to Buddha, the Muslim God, the Voodoo gods etc. Praying alongside means you are praying with them. This has been a major problem with the RCC it is syncretize with other religions.

By the way answer questions instead of belittling other posters or asking a diverting question.
I'm not saying that at all. How does "praying alongside" equate to "praying with"? Does that mean when you work alongside others, you support what they do?

Can you evidence where the Catholic Church has syncretised Christian beliefs with other religions?
 

balshan

Well-known member
I'm not saying that at all. How does "praying alongside" equate to "praying with"? Does that mean when you work alongside others, you support what they do?

Can you evidence where the Catholic Church has syncretised Christian beliefs with other religions?
Of course it is when you pray alongside you are accepting who they pray to. You are saying we are the same, no difference between who you are praying to. There is centuries of evidence.
 

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
Of course it is when you pray alongside you are accepting who they pray to.
Why? I don't think that follows at all. The way you would know if someone accepts other gods, would be to ask them: "Do you accept other gods?"
You are saying we are the same, no difference between who you are praying to. There is centuries of evidence.
Can you cite some evidence, please, of the Catholic Church syncretising Christian beliefs with other religions?
 

balshan

Well-known member
Why? I don't think that follows at all. The way you would know if someone accepts other gods, would be to ask them: "Do you accept other gods?"

Can you cite some evidence, please, of the Catholic Church syncretising Christian beliefs with other religions?
Show us where it isn't. Praying to the dead, Praying to the goddess, inclusion of Greek philosphy, the Jesuits accepted practices merged into Catholicism to win souls to God,

Religion was, however, not taught, but imposed using violence. For the Indians, it was a matter of survival to embrace Catholic religion, so they started incorporating elements of Christianity into their traditional beliefs, creating a new syncretic system. By adopting Christian god, demoting other gods as saints, and practising indigenous rituals under the disguise of Christianity, they were able to avoid the wrath of Spaniards, yet hold on to their native spirituality and cultural identity...
n indigenous couple makes a prostration at the sacred hill Pascual Abaj in Chichicastenango in the Guatemalan Highlands. They walked back and forth on their knees between fire and the ancient sacrificial stones left by the Mayan ancestors. Like the majority of modern Mayas, they identified themselves as Christians, yet they come here twice a year to show their gratitude to the gods other than the Christian god. S

In fact, the latter paragraphs of the article find on this link refers to pagan worship in the Vatican district:


In fact, syncretism caused the Jewish people to go into exile. They added pagan Gods to their worship. They probably started praying alongside their pagan friends.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
That's okay, I was just about to sacrifice a chicken to my pagan mother goddess anyway. I wonder if I can use KFC instead; at least that way, I don't have to clean up the blood.
AS you probably already know, here in Texas. there are many pockets of "Santaria" which is a mixture of Roman Catholicism, and Mexican Voodoo Blood Cult practice.
 

balshan

Well-known member
Why? I don't think that follows at all. The way you would know if someone accepts other gods, would be to ask them: "Do you accept other gods?"

Can you cite some evidence, please, of the Catholic Church syncretising Christian beliefs with other religions?
Praying alongside means all the various forms of gods are in front of you and you are praying to them. There is no subtle difference, I am only kneeing next to the others but I am not praying the same. Why do RCs keep fooling themselves with the word games. If you are praying together, you are accepting their gods.
 

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
Show us where it isn't. Praying to the dead, Praying to the goddess, inclusion of Greek philosphy, the Jesuits accepted practices merged into Catholicism to win souls to God,
Ancient and modern Jews still pray for the dead - that's not uniquely pagan - and when we pray to saints, they are alive with God and interceding for us (again, I'm not sure how that's pagan). What goddess? Catholics only believe in one God. How is the inclusion of Greek philosophy pagan? The doctrine of the Trinity is understood through Greek philosophy and the NT is in Greek (a pagan language?). Doesn't all truth come from God, or does it have to be Jewish truth? We can talk about the Jesuits if you wish, but one order of the Catholic Church is different from the entire Catholic Church (where the claim is being made).
Religion was, however, not taught, but imposed using violence. For the Indians, it was a matter of survival to embrace Catholic religion, so they started incorporating elements of Christianity into their traditional beliefs, creating a new syncretic system. By adopting Christian god, demoting other gods as saints, and practising indigenous rituals under the disguise of Christianity, they were able to avoid the wrath of Spaniards, yet hold on to their native spirituality and cultural identity.
n indigenous couple makes a prostration at the sacred hill Pascual Abaj in Chichicastenango in the Guatemalan Highlands. They walked back and forth on their knees between fire and the ancient sacrificial stones left by the Mayan ancestors. Like the majority of modern Mayas, they identified themselves as Christians, yet they come here twice a year to show their gratitude to the gods other than the Christian god. S
Okay. But your claim is that the Catholic Church is syncrenistic, not that some quasi-Catholics are also following another religion.
In fact, the latter paragraphs of the article find on this link refers to pagan worship in the Vatican district:


In fact, syncretism caused the Jewish people to go into exile. They added pagan Gods to their worship. They probably started praying alongside their pagan friends.
The Amazon synod didn't worship a pagan goddess. Again, please show me evidence.

Lots of claims are being made in a very general fashion without any real hard evidence. If what you're saying is so obviously true, we should have statements by popes or photos (or some kind of visual evidence) of them syncretising and worship/practicing paganism.
 

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
Praying alongside means all the various forms of gods are in front of you and you are praying to them. There is no subtle difference, I am only kneeing next to the others but I am not praying the same. Why do RCs keep fooling themselves with the word games. If you are praying together, you are accepting their gods.
I'm sorry but you're just wrong. If you want to know what gods someone accepts, you have to ask them or listen to them, you can't infer that from someone praying in the presence of someone else. If your Muslim friend met you and said, "Can we say a short prayer together for my sick daughter," if you both said, "God, take care of her," do you think that would mean that you accept everything the Qu'ran reveals about the Muslim God? I don't think so.
 

leonard03782

Active member
Of course it is when you pray alongside you are accepting who they pray to. You are saying we are the same, no difference between who you are praying to. There is centuries of evidence.
Why? I don't think that follows at all. The way you would know if someone accepts other gods, would be to ask them: "Do you accept other gods?"

Can you cite some evidence, please, of the Catholic Church syncretising Christian beliefs with other religions?
2 COR 6:

14
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
 

leonard03782

Active member
Why? I don't think that follows at all. The way you would know if someone accepts other gods, would be to ask them: "Do you accept other gods?"

Can you cite some evidence, please, of the Catholic Church syncretising Christian beliefs with other religions?
How about the trusted and favorite pope-ism that "we all believe in the same god under different names"?
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
Why? I don't think that follows at all. The way you would know if someone accepts other gods, would be to ask them: "Do you accept other gods?"

Can you cite some evidence, please, of the Catholic Church syncretising Christian beliefs with other religions?
There are scores of examples of this that have been produced here in this CARM forum over the years, which have accurately revealed that a mixture of paganism and Christianity produced the Roman Catholic Church. What the RCC has always done is to "suppress the truth in unrighteousness" so they are without excuse for their pagan beliefs and actions, and are guilty of deception.
jonathan, it's obvious that in your heart of hearts you do know God (even if it be in condemnation), and you are persuaded by His revelations of Himself. But now you are saying anything you can to keep truths from sight in this thread, and to keep from dealing honestly with your Maker and Judge, as well as with the posters and lurkers here on CARM. You try rationalization and any number of intellectual games indoctrinated by the Roman Catholic Church, trying to convince yourself and others, that the subject of this thread (as well as many others) is not to be believed. You really work hard at habitually deceiving yourself (perhaps unconsciously), and others as well, which seems to be your goal.
 

mica

Well-known member
I'm sorry but you're just wrong. If you want to know what gods someone accepts, you have to ask them or listen to them, you can't infer that from someone praying in the presence of someone else. If your Muslim friend met you and said, "Can we say a short prayer together for my sick daughter," if you both said, "God, take care of her," do you think that would mean that you accept everything the Qu'ran reveals about the Muslim God? I don't think so.
yes one can. at least a believer usually can. If a Muslim is praying to Allah, he isn't praying to the God of scripture.

you also do think that the RCC/CC is His church, that water baptism makes one a Christian, that Mary is sinless and ever virgin, Peter was a pope, etc.
 
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