Israel/Palestine

[wiseones2cents]

The casual slur, followed by how he hurt your feelings first, then you didn't care about my opinion, now its multiple exclamation points and how you! are! about!! to lose! your jobs!!

Here's a thought: just try learning a bit of self control. Then you won't have all this drama.

Unless of course you WANT the drama. But this cannot be.

Are you still chirping? lol Do you still believe your opinion is relevant to me?

My feelings weren't hurt at all. He insulted me and Christianity.

What drama? Dealing with internet "Karens"? It's part of being on forums. LMAO!!!

 

[Algor]

Are you still chirping? lol Do you still believe your opinion is relevant to me?

You're still responding, exclamation points and all. So...

My feelings weren't hurt at all.

Oh, sure. Not at all. Totally believable.

He insulted me and Christianity.

Poor thing.

What drama? Dealing with internet "Karens"? It's part of being on forums. LMAO!!!

And still more exclamation points. Excitable fellow.

 

[wiseones2cents]

You're still responding, exclamation points and all. So...

For amusement!

Oh, sure. Not at all. Totally believable.

LOL. It is, my feelings are not hurt by random people on the internet I dont know.

Even if they say something about my parents.

It just demonstrates their lack of class.

Poor thing.

Poor thing was insulted by my Jew joke!

And still more exclamation points. Excitable fellow.

To express how hard I am laughing at your nonsense Karen!

Anyways, I'm off for vacation! See you guys in a week!!

 

[Algor]

For amusement!

Sounds a bit more frantic than that.

LOL. It is, my feelings are not hurt by random people on the internet I dont know.

Even if they say something about my parents.

Looks like that one went home.

It just demonstrates their lack of class.


Poor thing was insulted by my Jew joke!

That sort of gutter antisemitism is distasteful wherever one sees it. Not so much insulting as appalling. But you do you.

To express how hard I am laughing at your nonsense Karen!

Anyways, I'm off for vacation! See you guys in a week!!

One can still hope.

 

[DeSanto]

No, it really was. @DeSanto , I should have looked this up before but according to the Oxford English Dictionary 'Holocaust" seems to have started out in English with the Bible, in early middle English translations, but by the mid 19th century was being applied to mass slaughter especially by fire.
The OED cites as examples:
"1833 L. Ritchie Wanderings by Loire 104 Louis VII..once made a holocaust of thirteen hundred persons in a church.
1883 Cent. Mag. Jan. 472/2 Miss Lazarus has given time and talents to a five act drama in which she narrated one ‘hideous tale of sin’, full of the lurid glare of holocaust of innocent merchants, their wives and babes."
So its usage with reference to the Armenian genocide was apparently the first time it was applied to a genocide. It would make sense that the memorable extension to the Shoah then is probably because of the extensive Nazi use of burning, as Jewjitsu proposed.

Considering the history of Jews in Armenia at that time… the reference only peaks my interest more.

"Holocaust:" is not a term used in Jewish ritual: it's a term used mostly by Christians to describe Jewish ritual. Jews don't describe the sacrifices using the Greek terms much.

As suggested by its Greek origin (holos "whole", and kaustos "burnt") the word designates an offering entirely consumed by fire, in use among the Jews and some pagan nations of antiquity. As employed in the Vulgate, it corresponds to two Hebrew terms: (1) to holah, literally: "that which goes up", either to the altar to be sacrificed, or to heaven in the sacrificial flame; (2) Kalil, literally: "entire", "perfect", which, as a sacrificial term, is usually a descriptive synonym of holah, and denotes an offering consumed wholly on the altar.

The Jews were being offered us as whole burnt offering to the pagan gods of the Nazis. That's reality and history. Doesn't matter how the term touches us emotionally.

The theory is not that Nazi’s were offering Jews as a sacrifice. No. The theory is… it was a Jewish sacrifice and the term “Holocaust” is being used as a sort of shibboleth to denote it.

 

[Algor]

As suggested by its Greek origin (holos "whole", and kaustos "burnt") the word designates an offering entirely consumed by fire, in use among the Jews and some pagan nations of antiquity. As employed in the Vulgate, it corresponds to two Hebrew terms: (1) to holah, literally: "that which goes up", either to the altar to be sacrificed, or to heaven in the sacrificial flame; (2) Kalil, literally: "entire", "perfect", which, as a sacrificial term, is usually a descriptive synonym of holah, and denotes an offering consumed wholly on the altar.

OK, this I did not know. Do you have a reference?

 

[DeSanto]

OK, this I did not know. Do you have a reference?

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Holocaust

As suggested by its Greek origin (holos 'whole', and kaustos 'burnt') the word designates an offering entirely consumed by fire, in use among the Jews and some pagan nations of antiquity. [Definition from 1910.]

www.newadvent.org

 

[Algor]

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Holocaust

As suggested by its Greek origin (holos 'whole', and kaustos 'burnt') the word designates an offering entirely consumed by fire, in use among the Jews and some pagan nations of antiquity. [Definition from 1910.]

www.newadvent.org

I think I am going to have to study the Vulgate. There's always more to things than meets the eye.

 

[Jewjitzu]

Being a sacrifice for your faith, this I think I can understand. But then who is the priest? I agree following a metaphor too far always gets one in trouble, but comparing the deaths of innocents to an act of worship is a bit much, no?

Israel is supposed to be a nation of priests.

Mountain out of a molehill, OK, I can see that.

Yep, I don't see why the other guy is asking these questions.

 

[Jewjitzu]

You still deceive yourself. You don't prove anything, but you illustrate what is blocking your ability to see, as Jesus, your Messiah explained. Unless you are born again, you will never be able to see.

Rotfl... you illustrate the vail over your eyes in accepting a god of flesh, Ex 34:17, masecah. Born again entails keeping the commandments.

No, my friend, and I do call you friend for your continued contribution. I have to go away during the school year, because I have less time on my hands. I left the Jewish forum because our conversations were becoming redundant, and neither of us want to waste time reiterating.

So why start up again? It's all been discussed. And no, we aren't friends in any sense.

Added to the fact that your posts always require more thought, more reflection and more time...a good thing, but I do not want our conversations to degrade to glib, meaningless repartee.

So just end it now.

Before the death of the testator, the will is a piece of paper, meaningless but for the promise it contains. Upon the death of the testator, the will is enacted upon. That's what happened when Jesus said, "It is finished." The Greek is actually what was said when a debt was paid or a contract completed: It can be translated "Paid in full."

And yet the debt wasn't paid or you wouldn't die.

Your part is to misunderstand. It wasn't always, but now the misunderstanding must be enforced. You were forewarned and the new covenant was foretold both by Jeremiah and Ezekiel...remarkably parallel promises, both equally ignored by your enforced misunderstanding.

No problem on my part.

Reputable historians and archaeologists disagree. You have no claim.

Rotfl... I haven't seen the evidence you're claiming.

Actually, your petty, churlish insults never work with me. Paul knew Judaism better than you do, since Rabbinical Judaism had to make things up from scratch when the temple and the priesthood were destroyed.

Paul wasn't a Pharisee but shows his true stripes working for the Sadducees and helping to kill others. This is fact.

You're only move is to insult which is your standard approach.

I just showed you it did...You're stuck back in de Nile.

Nope.

Still a trifling peevish, aren't you?...you're suggesting you have nothing to learn? Keep learning.

Nothing yet.

You're not Elijah. You're embarrassing yourself in your childish blasphemies. Why do you do that? It's like you're goading us to see if you can raise up more disrespect from me? Do you really want less respect? It only reveals your own insecurity.

You have zero comeback.

Then you're not Jewish and you have no understanding. Daniel understood, and he never divorced himself from the sin of his people. You have Ahaz and Menasseh to deal with and all the atrocities they committed. You're not exempt, and you have no sacrifice to cover but what your rabbis made up once you were forced to abrogate the law of sacrifices.

Actually, Daniel had no sacrifices when he was exiled and relied on prayers.

Philistine.

So what's your point? That Palestinians are Philistines?

Your handicaps are abundantly clear. it comes with being a curmudgeon.

You're showing your same worthless arguments.

 

[Jewjitzu]

Don't understand why you have to lie...but I observe that you must.

You need to be careful calling someone a liar because you must prove intent, which I haven't done.

Jacob said, Gen 32:30"So Jacob named the place Peniel, saying, 'Indeed, I have seen God face to face, and yet my life was spared.'" He calls Him אֱלֹהִים֙.

Yep, being that men, i.e., Exodus 7:1, Ex 21:6, 22:8-9; and angels, i.e., Psalm 8:5, are called God, there's zero problem on my part.

Just did. Jacob was smarter than you, and he did not call a man or an angel God. You just deny what he actually said, because your religion demands that you be blind to God's claims and His Law.

So your god lost in a wrestling match. Rotfl...

I don't have to find where God makes sukkoth with Israel. Not for your sake. And I'll go to the Jewish forum when I can give it the time your threads deserve. I hate glib non-answers to the deeper issues you keep raising.

Then don't raise them here.

Because this is what that looks like. Kindness and respect are lost on you...your religion does not require it.

You keep raising your same complaints which have been answered previously. Just move on.

 

[Algor]

Israel is supposed to be a nation of priests.

I think my issue is that while they may be offering themselves, someone else is doing the killing. It's metaphor, so it's slippery and subjective as to how it hits one, I guess.

Yep, I don't see why the other guy is asking these questions.

I think the metaphor just hits people different ways, depending on how they encounter the terms. I'm sure you have run across some pretty awful takes on it: I know I have.

 

[Jewjitzu]

I think my issue is that while they may be offering themselves, someone else is doing the killing. It's metaphor, so it's slippery and subjective as to how it hits one, I guess.

Ok, but the NT presents Jesus as the High Priest presenting himself as a sacrifice so why would it be hard to accept my idea?

I think the metaphor just hits people different ways, depending on how they encounter the terms. I'm sure you have run across some pretty awful takes on it: I know I have.

Yep.

 

[Algor]

Ok, but the NT presents Jesus as the High Priest presenting himself as a sacrifice so why would it be hard to accept my idea?

That particular NT rhetorical inversion never really resonated with me.

 

[Jewjitzu]

That particular NT rhetorical inversion never really resonated with me.

Ok, no problem.

 

[tbeachhead]

You need to be careful calling someone a liar because you must prove intent, which I haven't done.

You write posts like this, and pretend to lose your own understanding of the Hebrew language, and you don't want me to notice? I never use the term until the friend I'm debating prevaricates. And you did say twice here, and too often to remember in other conversations we've had, "Jacob didn't call him 'God'" whom he called God, and I showed you the verse, with the Hebrew He used for God, Elohim. No OT patriarch would use that plural term for a man, singular.

Yep, being that men, i.e., Exodus 7:1, Ex 21:6, 22:8-9; and angels, i.e., Psalm 8:5, are called God, there's zero problem on my part.

So...you're suggesting that each time the word Elohim is used, it refers to men, and accidentally to God once in a while, but it's really indistinguishable? Shama Israel YHWH our man, YHWH is one? Kind of blasphemous, don't you think? Are you willing to admit that El is a title, not a name? Can you agree that title doesn't designate species or being, but rank and authority? And to that you respond with a string of unquoted verse numbers?

But fine...OK. I'll do your work for you, because obfuscation using chapter and verse without the words they represent works confusion adequately for you and you hope no one will take the time to call you on it. Your contextual gymnastics are worth the time to examine for a laugh.
Ex 7:1The LORD answered Moses, “See, I have made you [like] God (אֱלֹהִ֖ים) to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet. God YHWH made Moses God to Pharaoh...he's delegating divine authority to Moses OVER and above the authority Pharaoh has, to overrule him and command. Moses is being given divine power.

Exodus 21:6 5But if the servant declares, ‘I love my master and my wife and children; I do not want to go free,’ 6then his master is to bring him before the judges (הָ֣אֱלֹהִ֔ים). And he shall take him to the door or doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he shall serve his master for life. Here you'e not even being honest...The contest Is clear...the is not Elohim, but Ha Elohim. He's using the definite article to specify an actual plural: THE judges, folks who have been given the authority to judge.

Exodus 22:8-9 8“If the thief is not caught, then the owner of the house shall appear before the judges (הָ֣אֱלֹהִ֔ים), to determine whether he laid his hands on his neighbor’s property. 9“For every breach of trust, whether it is for ox, for donkey, for sheep, for clothing, or for any lost thing about which one says, ‘This is it,’ the case of both parties shall come before the judges; he whom the judges condemn shall pay double to his neighbor. Again...not god, but judges...with the delegated authority to judge.

And finally Psalm 8: 4what is man that You are mindful of him,
or the son of man that You care for him?
5You made him a little lower than the angels; (מֵאֱלֹהִ֑ים)
You crowned him with glory and honor.
6You made him ruler of the works of Your hands;
You have placed everything under his feet:
Made in His image and in His likeness the son of Adam is everything LIKE Elohim but not Elohim...a diminished version. You know the Hebrew. You know the words...and He gave Him Glory, Honor...a ruler over the work of God's hands...Everything under his feet. God delegated divine authority to Adam his designated steward...

So your god lost in a wrestling match. Rotfl...

So your ancestor wrestled all night with a man expecting a divine blessing, and was flabbergasted that he survived.

He was a little simple-minded, wasn't he, your ancestor?

Then don't raise them here.

I'll raise them wherever I want to. It highlights your own denial. You're admitting by your denial that God did not come and dwell with your people in a tent of curtains, that David was wrong when he told Nathan that, that God did not travel as a pillar of smoke by day and a pillar of fire by night over the tabernacle? Why is this so difficult for you? When Solomon built the house, you suggest He did not come in in glory to dwell there, and cause the priests to lose their ability to stand? And when your people sinned, that Glory did not leave the House of His dwelling, and Ezekiel was hallucinating? The priests went year after year behind a curtain that hid nothing but a box, no threat to the priest's life at all going in.

The people who meticulously guarded the Word of the Lord for centuries had a God Who tabernacled with them...until they denied Him, and crucified their own Messiah...making a heart the tabernacle of His dwelling for all Who receive.

You keep raising your same complaints which have been answered previously. Just move on.

You keep hoping your cliche responses will be ignored or left unanswered. Keep on hoping.

 

[Jewjitzu]

You write posts like this, and pretend to lose your own understanding of the Hebrew language, and you don't want me to notice? I never use the term until the friend I'm debating prevaricates.

Once again calling me a liar. 3 strikes and you're out.

And you did say twice here, and too often to remember in other conversations we've had, "Jacob didn't call him 'God'" whom he called God, and I showed you the verse, with the Hebrew He used for God, Elohim. No OT patriarch would use that plural term for a man, singular.

Rotfl... show us where the man that Jacob wrestled with him was called the God by him, my God, etc.? It isn't there.

Moses was called God, Ex 7:1, as well as Abraham, Gen 23:6, and Esau by Jacob himself in Gen 33:10. I guess all of these folks are God too, but that would increase your godhead beyond 3. Rotfl...

You've missed a few things.

So...you're suggesting that each time the word Elohim is used, it refers to men, and accidentally to God once in a while, but it's really indistinguishable?

Do you understand context? I never said everytime the term elohim is used refers to man. Try to keep up.

Shama Israel YHWH our man, YHWH is one? Kind of blasphemous, don't you think?

Why go down rabbit roles with your own statements? Yes, your statements were blasphemous. Ironically, you're agreeing that the idea of Jesus is God is....

Rotfl... checkmate!

Are you willing to admit that El is a title, not a name? Can you agree that title doesn't designate species or being, but rank and authority? And to that you respond with a string of unquoted verse numbers?

Either el or elohim refers to a title referring to rank or authority, power. Men and angels are given authority by Him.

But fine...OK. I'll do your work for you, because obfuscation using chapter and verse without the words they represent works confusion adequately for you and you hope no one will take the time to call you on it. Your contextual gymnastics are worth the time to examine for a laugh.
Ex 7:1The LORD answered Moses, “See, I have made you [like] God

There is no like in the Hebrew.

(אֱלֹהִ֖ים) to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet. God YHWH made Moses God to Pharaoh...he's delegating divine authority to Moses OVER and above the authority Pharaoh has, to overrule him and command. Moses is being given divine power.

And so Moses acts as God before Pharaoh.

Exodus 21:6 5But if the servant declares, ‘I love my master and my wife and children; I do not want to go free,’ 6then his master is to bring him before the judges (הָ֣אֱלֹהִ֔ים). And he shall take him to the door or doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he shall serve his master for life. Here you'e not even being honest...The contest Is clear...the is not Elohim, but Ha Elohim. He's using the definite article to specify an actual plural: THE judges, folks who have been given the authority to judge.

You've made my point. Judges are referred to as "The God" because they judge as God.

Exodus 22:8-9 8“If the thief is not caught, then the owner of the house shall appear before the judges (הָ֣אֱלֹהִ֔ים), to determine whether he laid his hands on his neighbor’s property. 9“For every breach of trust, whether it is for ox, for donkey, for sheep, for clothing, or for any lost thing about which one says, ‘This is it,’ the case of both parties shall come before the judges; he whom the judges condemn shall pay double to his neighbor. Again...not god, but judges...with the delegated authority to judge.

Judges are called the God. See above. I'm sure you're familiar with Psalm 89:6?

And finally Psalm 8: 4what is man that You are mindful of him,
or the son of man that You care for him?
5You made him a little lower than the angels; (מֵאֱלֹהִ֑ים)

Angels are referred to as God.

You crowned him with glory and honor.
6You made him ruler of the works of Your hands;
You have placed everything under his feet:
Made in His image and in His likeness the son of Adam is everything LIKE Elohim but not Elohim...a diminished version. You know the Hebrew. You know the words...and He gave Him Glory, Honor...a ruler over the work of God's hands...Everything under his feet. God delegated divine authority to Adam his designated steward...

Angels and men act as God and for God.

So your ancestor wrestled all night with a man expecting a divine blessing, and was flabbergasted that he survived.

A malach, messenger, acts as God and can bestow blessings for God as well.

You're admitting your god lost a wrestling match and limited in the flesh.

He was a little simple-minded, wasn't he, your ancestor?

Rotfl... more like your understanding is.

I'll raise them wherever I want to. It highlights your own denial. You're admitting by your denial that God did not come and dwell with your people in a tent of curtains, that David was wrong when he told Nathan that, that God did not travel as a pillar of smoke by day and a pillar of fire by night over the tabernacle?

God uses blessings, acts of nature, angels acting as Him, to denote His presence. It isn't a physical presence. Keep studying.

Why is this so difficult for you? When Solomon built the house, you suggest He did not come in in glory to dwell there, and cause the priests to lose their ability to stand?

Your own example has Solomon admitting that neither heaven, earth, nor the temple contains God. Why is that so difficult for you?

And when your people sinned, that Glory did not leave the House of His dwelling, and Ezekiel was hallucinating? The priests went year after year behind a curtain that hid nothing but a box, no threat to the priest's life at all going in.

The glory, honor, kavod, isn't His physical presence. You're stuck on a physical idea, a veil of flesh, Ex 34:17, masecah.

The people who meticulously guarded the Word of the Lord for centuries had a God Who tabernacled with them...until they denied Him, and crucified their own Messiah...making a heart the tabernacle of His dwelling for all Who receive.

See above.

You keep hoping your cliche responses will be ignored or left unanswered. Keep on hoping.

You keep hoping you're advancing your position. You ain't.

 

[tbeachhead]

Rotfl... you illustrate the vail over your eyes in accepting a god of flesh,

How little you know.

27“Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh. Is anything too difficult for Me?" That's the God of all flesh we serve...the one you abandoned for your forced invention after you slaughtered your Messiah as the Tenakh foretold.

Ex 34:17, masecah.

"7maintaining loving devotion to a thousand generations,a
forgiving iniquity, transgression, and sin.
Yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished;
He will visit the iniquity of the fathers
on their children and grandchildren
to the third and fourth generations.” Huh? That's what random chapter/verse does: nothing

Born again entails keeping the commandments.[]/quote]No it doesn't...That's a side effect.

So why start up again? It's all been discussed. And no, we aren't friends in any sense.

Breaks your heart, doesn't it, to have a discussion with someone who knows the Tenakh, and calls you on your error according to your false claims.

So just end it now.

You wish...just stop posting, and I'll have no answer to what you didn't post.

And yet the debt wasn't paid or you wouldn't die.

It's appointed unto man once to die, and then the judgment. Unless a seed falls into the ground and dies, it abides alone.

But the death of which you speak here is the death Abraham and Isaac also died...and our God, the God of Abraham and Isaac is not the God of the dead. That's why the saints of old slept and were taken to their fathers.

No problem on my part.

Well that's true. You have no problem misunderstanding. You do your part well.

Rotfl... I haven't seen the evidence you're claiming.

You cannot, blind man. It was foretold.

Paul wasn't a Pharisee but shows his true stripes working for the Sadducees and helping to kill others. This is fact.

The Pharisees and the Sadducees worked directly with the Romans, their enemies, to stop Messiah, and protect their power. This is fact. Your claim, your denial, is a non-starter.

You're only move is to insult which is your standard approach.

You're projecting. My only move is to refer to history, and underline the weakness of your claim. I do not have to blaspheme, as you are continuously driven to do: "Rabbinical Judaism had to make things up from scratch when the temple and the priesthood were destroyed." That is historic fact.

Nope.
Nothing yet.

Clearly.

I still have found no alternative to hope. Faith does come by hearing the Word...you're still breathing. You still have a chance to get it.

You have zero comeback.

There is no reasonable comeback to blasphemies and churlishness. Why would I want one? That seems to be your only goal.

Actually, Daniel had no sacrifices when he was exiled and relied on prayers.

Daniel had the promise of a return...and a priesthood and a David bloodline. You have none of the above. Using Daniel as an excuse for invention is a coy, interesting diversion. Where is the ark of the covenant/

So what's your point? That Palestinians are Philistines?

What's yours? The etymology is meaningless? I'm not saying bloodlines didn't mingle. I'm saying the Philistines exist in two languages despite your claims.

You're showing your same worthless arguments.

Since you only have this, and this at your most lucid, my arguments still rise above yours.

 

[Jewjitzu]

How little you know.

27“Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh. Is anything too difficult for Me?" That's the God of all flesh we serve...the one you abandoned for your forced invention after you slaughtered your Messiah as the Tenakh foretold.

How little you grasp. The God of flesh isn't flesh. Jesus himself says so in Mat 16:17, agreeing with Isaiah 40:18,25; 46:5; where likeness, Hebrew damah, is the root for blood, physicality, and adam/man.

"7maintaining loving devotion to a thousand generations,a
forgiving iniquity, transgression, and sin.
Yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished;
He will visit the iniquity of the fathers
on their children and grandchildren
to the third and fourth generations.” Huh? That's what random chapter/verse does: nothing

Yep, His actions of blessings and curses don't require His physical presence.

Maybe fix the rest of your post so that it can be replied to???

 

[tbeachhead]

Once again calling me a liar. 3 strikes and you're out.

Stop being dishonest with your language. You know the error in your own words. You know Hebrew better than I do.

Rotfl... show us where the man that Jacob wrestled with him was called the God by him, my God, etc.? It isn't there.

What's your point?

I showed you where Jacob wrestled...the guy walked away after blessing him, and Jacob said, "Wow! I just wrestled with God and didn't even die." Limping from that day on, he called Him God...after He walked away. Either you don't understand how language works, or...strike four.

Moses was called God, Ex 7:1,

I've already done this. You just couldn't read. God is wont to appoint and delegate. Moses was given authority over Pharaoh, as Messiah's disciples have authority over snakes and scorpions.

Abraham, Gen 23:6, and Esau by Jacob himself in Gen 33:10. I guess all of these folks are God too, but that would increase your godhead beyond 3. Rotfl...

No Abraham was called NESI Elohim, a Prince of God. The Hittites recognized his authority from God. And NO ONE was as weak minded as Jacob, expecting to die wrestling with any of them. In Jacob's case, he was groveling UNDER the fear of his brother, and speaking hyperbolically, using the title to humble himself. Why do you have to do this as if I hadn't read the passages?

You've missed a few things.

That could be...but certainly not in a single one of your posts. You're forced to deny context and seek to nullify the Tenach to maintain your own error.

Do you understand context? I never said everytime the term elohim is used refers to man. Try to keep up.

See above...you don't have to say it to seek to enforce the claim.

Why go down rabbit roles with your own statements? Yes, your statements were blasphemous. Ironically, you're agreeing that the idea of Jesus is God is....

Rotfl... checkmate!

The Rabbit hole is yours with the deliberate misunderstanding. El is a title...Elohim applied in the singular is translated "God" correctly. Elohim in context of "ha Elohim refers to high justices...you knew it and made the false claim anyway. Own the hole you dug

Either el or elohim refers to a title referring to rank or authority, power. Men and angels are given authority by Him.

Yep...And Elohim singular, Who wrestled all night with Jacob is not a man, contrary to your delusional claim.

There is no like in the Hebrew.

Exactly...You've proven my point. There is like in weak English translations, because they do not understand the concept of delegated authority.

And so Moses acts as God before Pharaoh.

I said that.

You've made my point. Judges are referred to as "The God" because they judge as God.

Sigh...You're acting like you do not know Hebrew and I have to teach you: Ha elohim...is masculine PLURAL. NO ONE reads this in the singular. These are THE judges...plural. Totally different t context.

Judges are called the God. See above.

Nonsense...it's masculine plural...and every time a verb is used, it, too is masculine plural.

I'm sure you're familiar with Psalm 89:6?

Of course...Who among the sons of the elim can be compared to YHWH.

You have to define "the sons of the elim." Michael Heiser did a pretty good job at that.The sons of the els.

Angels are referred to as God.

Not in that psalm they are not...they're not mentioned. But your interpretation is noted. It's not biblical, but it's a decent guess...

Angels and men act as God and for God.

If they've been delegated that duty. Certainly not all men and not all angels.

A malach, messenger, acts as God and can bestow blessings for God as well.

If he's sent with that, and at that point, he carries the authority of God as Moses did before Pharaoh. God can delegate. He is El Elohe.

You're admitting your god lost a wrestling match and limited in the flesh.

Your admitting your patriarch was duped by a guy, and feared for no reason.

I'm actually observing that my God can do as He pleases, appears as He wishes, wrestles whom He will and He's not limited by my the artificial limits of my religion like yours is.

Rotfl... more like your understanding is.

He got duped by a man...who had no more power to bless or change names than you do.

God uses blessings, acts of nature, angels acting as Him, to denote His presence. It isn't a physical presence. Keep studying.

God is so much that you cannot allow Him to be. He does so much more than your religion allows. He makes the Law, not your religion, riddled with enforced tradition and error.

Your own example has Solomon admitting that neither heaven, earth, nor the temple contains God. Why is that so difficult for you?

You're confusing residing with containing. The Holy Spirit takes up residence in the heart of a believer in your Messiah. What heart can contain Him?What came into the Holy of Holies, and dwelt there? What did Ezekiel see leaving? There is no Shekineh that dwells? More imagination? Once again, you're obfuscating what happened that day, and what Ezekiel witnessed when your people turned from God and made up a religion the first time.

The glory, honor, kavod, isn't His physical presence. You're stuck on a physical idea, a veil of flesh, Ex 34:17, masecah.

Nope...I'm stuck on reading. You're stuck on physical...The shekineh cloud was a cloud, and it took up residence...and the priests had to wear bells behind the veil to signal when they got killed in the presence.

See above.

Not an answer. Look above.

You keep hoping you're advancing your position. You ain't.

Nah. I don't have any hope for you...but your error has and deserves a response. There are those who once believed what you've been told, and the inventions necessitated after your Messiah was murdered as foretold. They have looked on the Messiah you pierced and fulfilled the prophecy you have yet to understand.