Israel/Palestine

[DeSanto]

We make choices which save our souls.

Can you save someone else’s soul by choice?

I already answered.

Not to my satisfaction.

No, it's part of the conversation.

I’m not interested in that part of the conversation.

 

[Jewjitzu]

Can you save someone else’s soul by choice?

They saved theirs.

Not to my satisfaction.

I don't really care.

I’m not entertaining that part of the conversation.

Ok, well we're done.

 

[DeSanto]

They saved theirs.

You can’t know the state of their soul.

I don't really care.

Obviously.

Ok, well we're done.

Agreed.

 

[Jewjitzu]

You can’t know the state of their soul.

Obviously.

Agreed.

Bye

 

[Jewjitzu]

Are you still chirping? lol Do you still believe your opinion is relevant to me?

My feelings weren't hurt at all. He insulted me and Christianity.

What drama? Dealing with internet "Karens"? It's part of being on forums. LMAO!!!

This is hilarious 😆. Considering you initiated attacks against me and Judaism, attacked Jews in Toronto by saying that they frequent prostitutes, saying stealing is a Jewish heritage, etc.

You're upset because you've personally admitted being friends with prostitutes, etc., and then called out on it? Rotfl... yeah, you're hurt.

 

[Jewjitzu]

7 main heads and 10 sub heads! The 10 heads all want to join the beast.....

Revelation 17:11-13​

11 The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction. 12 The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour. 13 These have one purpose, and they give their power and authority to the beast.

Why are you quoting what you've said isn't inspired from post #258? Post in thread 'Israel/Palestine' https://forums.carm.org/threads/israel-palestine.13802/post-1086345

"I dont recognize the book of Revelations as Spirit inspired".

 

[tbeachhead]

Well, you like to think that.

He's in pretty good company.

Isaiah 53:Yet it was the LORD’s will to crush Him
and to cause Him to suffer;
and when His soul is made a guilt offering (asham (אָשָׁם)
He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days,
and the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.

For the salvation of their souls. It's not like they had a choice.

Then it's murder, not sacrifice...sorry. Their blood does not expiate or propitiate...it only produces blood-guilt on the murderers. The sacrificial system you have now abrogated and replaced since the expiatory death of your Messiah was designed to expiated the sins of the people.

 

[tbeachhead]

We make choices which save our souls.

You've become your own messiah, then, and you're saved in your own self-righteous. This is not Torah. This is convenient post-betrayal invention.

No, he followed the Father's will which means no choice. Your will be done. He wanted to pass the cup.

No one took his choice away...He made the decision, "Nevertheless, thy will, not mine be done." At any point he could have ended the ordeal and called legions of angels, but for the joy that was set before him (as it is written, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days,
and the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.}, He endured the cross. He knew the promise you ignore, and weighed the benefit with the cost and found the value in the benefit, even your salvation if you would see Him.

I already answered.

Yeah. You were wrong. Care to show how the slaughter of innocents saves souls?

 

[Jewjitzu]

He's in pretty good company.

Isaiah 53:Yet it was the LORD’s will to crush Him
and to cause Him to suffer;
and when His soul is made a guilt offering (asham (אָשָׁם)
He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days,
and the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.

An asham is only for specific sins and in some cases requires a requirement of a monetary debt. Jesus never did that, nor did his blood make it on to the altar at the temple per the commandments.

Then it's murder, not sacrifice...sorry. Their blood does not expiate or propitiate...it only produces blood-guilt on the murderers.

It pays for their sins. The wages of sin is death. In the process they repent and ask for forgiveness. As a result, the nation also seeks repentance and forgiveness.

The sacrificial system you have now abrogated and replaced since the expiatory death of your Messiah was designed to expiated the sins of the people.

The death of Messiah was never called for in Torah. Nor did Jesus place his blood on the altar. So, his sacrifice fell short.

 

[Jewjitzu]

You've become your own messiah, then, and you're saved in your own self-righteous. This is not Torah. This is convenient post-betrayal invention.

We are saved by obedience to the commandments. They bring life. Jesus relied on his parents righteousness on at least 3 commandments.

No one took his choice away...He made the decision, "Nevertheless, thy will, not mine be done."

You proved my point. He had zero choice over the Father's will.

At any point he could have ended the ordeal and called legions of angels,

Hearsay.

but for the joy that was set before him (as it is written, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days,
and the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.},

Was he married and had children? That's in the commandments.

He endured the cross. He knew the promise you ignore, and weighed the benefit with the cost and found the value in the benefit, even your salvation if you would see Him.

Sorry, but even Jesus cried for salvation, Heb 5:7, and grew in righteousness, Luke 2:52.

Yeah. You were wrong. Care to show how the slaughter of innocents saves souls?

Shown previously. I'll continue any discussion you want in the Judaism forum. Just create an OP and send me the link.

No need to rehash and discuss religious topics here.

 

[tbeachhead]

An asham is only for specific sins and in some cases requires a requirement of a monetary debt. Jesus never did that, nor did his blood make it on to the altar at the temple per the commandments.

His blood made it to the heavenly altar, the real one, after which pattern Moses built the tabernacle in the desert.

I didn't write Isaiah or inspire him...Jesus' soul was made an asham according to the Word of the Living God.

It pays for their sins. The wages of sin is death. In the process they repent and ask for forgiveness. As a result, the nation also seeks repentance and forgiveness.

You made that up. I cannot, by getting murdered, repentant or not, expiate my own sins. Blood guilt is ascribed to those who shed innocent blood, but each one that perished still has to face his maker. What you claim is found no where in Torah. And where, since Daniel, has the nation sought repentance and found it, and turned back to the God of the Word? Your god is not the God of Moses...but the god of Aaron while Moses was on the mountain.

The death of Messiah was never called for in Torah. Nor did Jesus place his blood on the altar. So, his sacrifice fell short.

A soul being made ashram would argue against your claim...That's the blood laid down. The soul is in the blood, as you know, and that is repeated to establish the truth.

 

[Jewjitzu]

His blood made it to the altar after which pattern Moses built the tabernacle in the desert.

I didn't write Isaiah or inspire him...Jesus' soul was made an asham according to the Word of the Living God.

You made that up. I cannot, by getting murdered, repentant or not, expiate my own sins. That is no where in Torah. And where, since Daniel, has the nation sought repentance and found it, and turned back to the God of the Word? Your god is not the God of Moses...but the god of Aaron while Moses was on the mountain.


A soul being made ashram would argue against you claim...That's the blood laid down. The soul is in the blood, as you know, and that is repeated to establish the truth.

Create an OP in the Judaism forum and we can talk about anything you want.

 

[tbeachhead]

We are saved by obedience to the commandments. They bring life.

And they bring condemnation to all in disobedience to one. The wages of sin is death. "The soul who sins is the one who will die. "

Jesus relied on his parents righteousness on at least 3 commandments.

Actually, God foreknew their propensity to obedience. See what Gabriel said to Mary.

You proved my point. He had zero choice over the Father's will.

Love compelled Him...what Adam lacked in love, the Last Adam had and responded. The choice is always there, and He spoke of the choice when He spoke of the angels at His command. At any point He could have refused the joy that was set before him. Your point is moot.

Hearsay.

Of course. He said so, and I heard Him.

Was he married and had children? That's in the commandments.

He was betrothed and faithful...He has a Bride. There will be offspring at the entrance of His Word into the heart of the Bride.

That's in the prophets

Sorry, but even Jesus cried for salvation, Heb 5:7,

You keep pretending that you understand, and you're so removed from understanding.
"During the days of Jesus’ earthly life, He offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the One who could save Him from death, and He was heard because of His reverence." He was the Word. He became the Word made Flesh, and He humbled Himself and became as Adam, subject to the principles of Creation that He wrote. He walked with God in the cool of the day, and knowing what had to come to restore Law to Life, he participated in all the emotions of the process. He was heard and He was raised from death to life, overcoming death. "I will ransom them from the power of Sheol; I will redeem them from Death. Where, O Death, are your plagues? Where, O Sheol, is your sting?" He didn't have to "cry for salvation." He had to pray as all saints pray, and petition as mediator, as Moses petitioned and as Moses said He would. Jesus didn't need to pray for salvation, He IS salvation. He is JahoShua, as you well know.

and grew in righteousness, Luke 2:52.

Of course he did. Righteousness is accumulated...it doesn't just happen. It's a collection of deeds. Why do you not understand this?

Shown previously.

Except it wasn't. Abels's blood cried out...it put blood guilt on Cain. It didn't save anyone.

 

[Jewjitzu]

And they bring condemnation to all in disobedience to one. The wages of sin is death. "The soul who sins is the one who will die. "

Actually, God foreknew their propensity to obedience. See what Gabriel said to Mary.
Love compelled Him...what Adam lacked in love, the Last Adam had and responded. The choice is always there, and He spoke of the choice when He spoke of the angels at His command. At any point He could have refused the joy that was set before him. Your point is moot.


Of course. He said so, and I heard Him.
He was betrothed and faithful...He has a Bride. There will be offspring at the entrance of His Word into the heart of the Bride.

That's in the prophets
You keep pretending that you understand, and you're so removed from understanding.
"During the days of Jesus’ earthly life, He offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the One who could save Him from death, and He was heard because of His reverence." He was the Word. He became the Word made Flesh, and He humbled Himself and became as Adam, subject to the principles of Creation that He wrote. He walked with God in the cool of the day, and knowing what had to come to restore Law to Life, he participated in all the emotions of the process. He was heard and He was raised from death to life, overcoming death. "I will ransom them from the power of Sheol; I will redeem them from Death. Where, O Death, are your plagues? Where, O Sheol, is your sting?" He didn't have to "cry for salvation." He had to pray as all saints pray, and petition as mediator, as Moses petitioned and as Moses said He would. Jesus didn't need to pray for salvation, He IS salvation. He is JahoShua, as you well know.

Of course he did. Righteousness is accumulated...it doesn't just happen. It's a collection of deeds. Why do you not understand this?


Except it wasn't. Abels's blood cried out...it put blood guilt on Cain. It didn't save anyone.

Like I said, post in the Judaism forum.

 

[wiseones2cents]

Well, being that God isn't visible, He's never been seen. Even the NT attests to that.

What's ridiculous is that the holes you perceive are the ones you have in your religion. No one has seen your god ever.

Yet the NT states that if you have seen Jesus(and God's will)you have seen our GOD. I'd assume if you don't believe, you are blind to GOD's Spirit, and thus I will ask again.

When was the last time your god sent a messenger or performed a miracle on your behalf? Or did ANYTHING?

Actually, Tanakh prophesied the destruction of the temple. At best, Jesus borrowed.

Yes Jesus did use the teaches of the Tanakh, but also said in 3 days He will raise up and rebuild a temple not made of human hands.

 

[wiseones2cents]

Freedom of choice. Similar to Christians that say they're Christians but don't act it.

Its not the same. We are talking about the only religion supposedly at the time of Adam. And his ancestors chose not to serve him and serve other gods? Hmmmm Doesn't sound like your god was doing a very good job.

That's what Abraham understood but God provided the ram which was always the plan.

Nonsense!! Do people actually buy this stuff you preach? They should ask for a refund. LMAO! The verse is understood that people would previously sacrifice their first borns to your god.

See above.


I never said otherwise.

Yawn. You cant reason with brainwashed people.

 

[wiseones2cents]

No, you're confused again.


You're confusing verses again.


See above.

So who was this mortal man that had the authority to change Abraham's name and give him the land of Israel? According to you, he wasn't an angel. Therefore what race did he belong to?

Rotfl... you started by criticizing and then I pointed out the hypocrisy in your stance. Yeah, you're a hypocrite.

Try again. I am far from a hypocrite.

Actually, history shows the Romans killed Jesus. They flogged him too. Why don't you call the RCC anti since they killed your guy?

They did so at the behest of the Jews. Pilate tried to free Him. Plus most Romans today are now Christians. How can I call them anti?

No surprise.

There is nothing wrong with bacon.lol Most likely pork was a "pagan" meal, and the northern Vikings(white race) were more into sheep, better suited for their climate, so they wanted people to buy sheep.

Did he give it away free, or are you whistling Dixie? Jews give lots of things away including help when catastrophes occur around the world. I don't hear Canadians doing that much.

Ya the Pharisees also gave alot to charity, but Jesus suggested they gave less than everyone else (per capita). Like the USA. It gives the most in aid to foreign countries but one of the least per capita. The USA also steals the most resources worldwide. I'd assume so did the Pharisees with their strict laws.

Rotfl... I've never had to pay for sex. You though have admitted you're on a friendly basis.

I doubt that very much. Yes, I know prostitutes and drug dealers and many other people I grew up with. I dont hang around with them though, but I did as a teenager, and still run into them from time to time.

Sorry, I had a typo previously. You're admitting Palestinians have zero archeological evidence of history in the region. Just modern day immigrants from Jordan, etc.

I do not know the historical heritage of the Palestinians and how long they have been there. After Israel(and the temple) was destroyed it was left abandoned for many centuries, until the Muslims' built it up.

I gave references already in the NT. You also forget Jesus went to hell when he died preaching the gospel to those being tormented, the book of Revelations, the weaping and gnashing of teeth, etc.

Or do you throw out everything that isn't convenient for you in the NT?

Jesus did not go to hell nor hades(purgatory). He told the thief on the cross that repented, that they would both be in heaven that same day.

Even His body was not left to decay.

Ok, then bother someone else.

Nope. Not until you admit the Palestinians have just as much a right to live there as you do and this is all a bunch of nonsense.

 

[wiseones2cents]

Yep, no man but God wanted him dead, correct? Your will be done?

Jesus did have a choice and He chose to serve GOD. That's like saying GOD wants martyrs and revolutionaries dead. NO! The god of this world wants them dead. GOD understands that these people must die in order for natural social evolution(revolution) to occur.

And what part does the Grace(Spirit) of GOD play in Judaism in regards to following the commandments?

 

[wiseones2cents]

Why are you quoting what you've said isn't inspired from post #258? Post in thread 'Israel/Palestine' https://forums.carm.org/threads/israel-palestine.13802/post-1086345

"I dont recognize the book of Revelations as Spirit inspired".

Just like Jesus, trying to speak to them in terms they understand.