James 2:24 - for the 50 millionth time

Redeemed

Well-known member
Refineries yes. I freelanced as a schedular for turnarounds. Retired in 2014. Do I know you?
You only know me from here, but 4 or 5 years ago we talked quite a bit on the old forum the handle I used then was McCafferty1. From our conversations I got a pretty good understanding of where you're coming from.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
You only know me from here, but 4 or 5 years ago we talked quite a bit on the old forum the handle I used then was McCafferty1. From our conversations I got a pretty good understanding of where you're coming from.
I hope it was good? LOL
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Hello Dberrie. My answers to your quotes in red.

Paul's point was Abraham didn't live under the Law of "works"(Mosiac Law)--but rather--under the gospel of Jesus Christ. - There was no "gospel of Christ" in Abraham's day.
Hi Uncle:

If it wasn't the gospel of Jesus Christ--was it the gospel at all?

Galatians 3:8---King James Version
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
 

UncleAbee

Active member
Hi Uncle:

If it wasn't the gospel of Jesus Christ--was it the gospel at all?

Galatians 3:8---King James Version
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
I am not sure how Abraham would have understood any of this. God told Abraham that "all nations would be blessed through him" but Abraham likely had no idea what this meant.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Yup--and here is the proof:

James 2:24---New American Standard Bible
24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
Do you not remember how we discussed this on the Lutheran boards last year? One of many times?

"I believe that statement to be deceptive--in the sense it's an attempt to mask the Lutheran theology which has men inheriting eternal life(my definition of saved) INDEPENDENT of any works."
BJBear:
That view is based upon the world view of the pagan philosophers rather than true Christian doctrine found in the Judeo-Christian Scriptures. It is a view which understands love to be a self centered love, for example, love the good if you get something good out of it. And it is a view that exemplifies distributed justification, that is, to the extent that a man is just is the extent to which he is justified.

The true Christian doctrine found in the Judeo-Christian Scriptures is that God is agape, that is, love in a particular Christian sense that is not self centered. We love, agape, God because he first loved, agape, us. That love, agape, which he created in us is the love with which the believers in the true Christ love, agape, our neighbor. It works because that is the nature of agape. It does not work out of self interest or gain or the compulsion of law.

Jacob was not writing of Christian faith which works through love, agape, when he wrote of a faith without works. Since that is not true Christian faith he asked if such a faith can save him? The obvious answer is no as the love of God in the true Christ Jesus, the agape of God in the true Christ Jesus, saves through faith alone.

The true Christian doctrine found in the Judeo-Christian Scriptures regarding the justification from God is that it is declarative based upon the Sacrifice, the sacrifice of the true Jesus, through faith alone.

Did you not understand what BJ wrote to you back then? And why do you ignore all of the Bible verses I have put down on here that show that we cannot save ourselves by our works and it is only by grace/faith in Christ Jesus our Lord we can be saved?


Posts nos. 15, 16 and 18.

Why do you continually ignore these, as if they did not exist and as if they do not put James 2:24 in proper perspective?
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Do you remember a poster named Brown Cat, who posted this on the Mormon forum, 5 years ago?

"You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."
One of our regular posters can be relied upon to quote this verse often when he participates in this forum. It’s one of his chief proof texts against Sola Fide, or the belief that a person’s salvation is given solely through his or her trusting faith in Jesus Christ. To emphasize his point he will highlight the word “not” in bold and red text. But this is not the main thrust of this verse nor in the immediate context and not in the larger theme of James’ epistle. In contrast, I will highlight the first two words in blue.


"You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."
The first two words are barely given any attention and this is unfortunate. Watch a person long enough and in time the reality of how strongly he or she holds their beliefs and convictions will be displayed. Also note that “Genuineness” is a keyword that describes the entire letter as the Theopedia entry for the epistle of James aptly notes:


The epistle of James is generally divided into three sections:

• Genuine Religion (1:1-27)
• Genuine Faith (2:1 - 3:12)
• Genuine Wisdom (3:13 - 5:20)

James wrote to Jewish Christians who had been scattered throughout the Mediterranean world because of persecution. In their hostile surroundings they were tempted to let intellectual agreement pass for true faith. This letter can have rich meaning for us as we are reminded that genuine faith transforms lives. We are encouraged to put our faith into action. It is easy to say we have faith, but true faith will produce loving actions towards others.
(Emphasis mine)

Taken in its entirety James' letter is warning his primary audience, (the Jewish believers scattered as result of Saul's and Agrippa's persecutions) and to the larger audience which includes us, of the necessity of insuring that the faith we have is real and powerful and not merely intellectual assent. (cf. 2 Corinthians 13:5; 2 Peter 1:10)

What James is saying here is that the only way a person will perceive the presence of a saving faith is through the professed believer’s actions that give visible and tangible evidence of that special kind of faith. Hence, the opening of the sentence, “you see”.

Now what does James mean by “justified”? It seems best to me to understand this with in two ways. First, I take it to mean made just and righteous before God since he previously mentioned saving faith earlier in the letter. Second, it can also well mean that a person’s claim to saving faith is justified or not in the eyes of his or her associates who witness this person’s manner of life.

Do you not know that another meaning of "justified" is "proven"?
 
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