Jesus atoned for the sins of the whole world

David1701

David1701

Well-known member
Johnnybgood said:
Calvin says the whole human race.

What say the Calvinist who do not know the scriptures like Calvin ?

Was he wrong and you are right ? 😂
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Do you see that proviso, at the end of your quote?

"...there is nothing to hinder him from obtaining reconciliation in Christ, provided that he comes to him by the guidance of faith."

Faith is a gift from God, and not everyone has it.

Phil. 1:29 (Webster) For to you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

2 Thess. 3:2 (EMTV) and that we may be delivered from evil and wicked men; for not all have faith.
 
J

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
David1701 said:
Do you see that proviso, at the end of your quote?

"...there is nothing to hinder him from obtaining reconciliation in Christ, provided that he comes to him by the guidance of faith."

Faith is a gift from God, and not everyone has it.

Phil. 1:29 (Webster) For to you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

2 Thess. 3:2 (EMTV) and that we may be delivered from evil and wicked men; for not all have faith.
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World is the subject not faith
 
David1701

David1701

Well-known member
Johnnybgood said:
World is the subject not faith
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The biblical understanding of faith, and how it works, has a great impact on the correct interpretation of the quoted passage as a whole. The "world" is the general scope (i.e. Jews and Gentiles in general, not every individual, since the faith proviso has a necessarily limiting effect on the number of individuals).
 
F

fltom

Well-known member
David1701 said:
Do you see that proviso, at the end of your quote?

"...there is nothing to hinder him from obtaining reconciliation in Christ, provided that he comes to him by the guidance of faith."

Faith is a gift from God, and not everyone has it.

Phil. 1:29 (Webster) For to you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

2 Thess. 3:2 (EMTV) and that we may be delivered from evil and wicked men; for not all have faith.
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Faith is a response to God given truth not a gift

Salvation (eternal life) however is the gift

Romans 6:23 (KJV)
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Philippians 1:29 (ESV)
29 For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake,

and it is by the word faith is granted

Romans 10:17 (ESV)
17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
 
Theo1689

Theo1689

Well-known member
Johnnybgood said:
Self proclaimed scholar ?

Which Theological Seminary did you get your Masters or Doctorate?
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Apparently you don't understand the meaning of "scholar".

And why are you going all the way back to a post I made 9 months ago?
Are you that desperate to get fodder to whine about?
 
Chalcedon

Chalcedon

Well-known member
Chalcedon said:
Maybe etymology is beyond his scope/pay grade.
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Yes the calvinist definition came from the reformation, not the Bible.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon

STRONGS NT 2434: ἱλασμός

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance

propitiation, sin offering

Atonement, i.e. (concretely) an expiator -- propitiation.

ἱλασμός, ἱλασμοῦ, ὁ (ἱλάσκομαι);

1. an appeasing, propitiating, Vulg.propitiatio (Plutarch, de sera num. vind. c. 17; plural joined with καθαρμοι, Plutarch, Sol. 12; with the genitive of the object τῶν θεῶν, the Orphica Arg. 39; Plutarch, Fab. 18; θεῶν μῆνιν ἱλασμοῦ καί χαριστηριων δεομένην, vit. Camill. 7 at the end; ποιεῖσθαι ἱλασμόν, of a priest offering an expiatory sacrifice, 2 Macc. 3:33).

2. in Alex. usage the means of appeasing, a propitiation: Philo, alleg. leg. 3: § 61; προσοίσουσιν ἱλασμόν, for חַטָּאת, Ezekiel 44:27; περί τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν, of Christ, 1 John 2:2; 1 John 4:10 (κριός τοῦ ἱλασμοῦ, Numbers 5:8; (cf. ἡμέρα τοῦ ἱλασμοῦ, Leviticus 25:9); also for סְלִיחָה, forgiveness, Psalm 129:4 (); Daniel 9:9, Theod.). (Cf. Trench, § lxxvii.)

What is expiation or atonement?


"Atonement" is to attain forgiveness for some sin or transgression, e.g. "I atoned for betraying my friend". It is something that you do. "Expiation" means to clear away the record, to make it as if it never existed. It is not something you can do - you cannot expiate your own sins

hope this helps !!!
 
J

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
Johnnybgood said:
1 John 2 says - He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

I found this from Albert Barnes who is a Calvinist.


But also for the sins of the whole world - The phrase "the sins of" is not in the original, but is not improperly supplied, for the connection demands it. This is one of the expressions occurring in the New Testament which demonstrate that the atonement was made for all people, and which cannot be reconciled with any other opinion. If he had died only for a part of the race, this language could not have been used. The phrase, "the whole world," is one which naturally embraces all people; is such as would be used if it be supposed that the apostle meant to teach that Christ died for all people; and is such as cannot be explained on any other supposition. If he died only for the elect, it is not true that he is the "propitiation for the sins of the whole world" in any proper sense, nor would it be possible then to assign a sense in which it could be true. This passage, interpreted in its plain and obvious meaning, teaches the following things:

(1) that the atonement in its own nature is adapted to all people, or that it is as much fitted to one individual, or one class, as another;

(2) that it is sufficient in merit for all; that is, that if anymore should be saved than actually will be, there would be no need of any additional suffering in order to save them;

(3) that it has no special adaptedness to one person or class more than another; that is, that in its own nature it did not render the salvation of one easier than that of another.

It so magnified the law, so honored God, so fully expressed the divine sense of the evil of sin in respect to all people, that the offer of salvation might be made as freely to one as to another, and that any and all might take shelter under it and be safe. Whether, however, God might not, for wise reasons, resolve that its benefits should be applied to a part only, is another question, and one which does not affect the inquiry about the intrinsic nature of the atonement. On the evidence that the atonement was made for all, see the 2 Corinthians 5:14 note, and Hebrews 2:9
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I see no one was capable of arguing against this with any success.
 
J

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
Chalcedon said:
Yes the calvinist definition came from the reformation, not the Bible.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon

STRONGS NT 2434: ἱλασμός

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance

propitiation, sin offering

Atonement, i.e. (concretely) an expiator -- propitiation.

ἱλασμός, ἱλασμοῦ, ὁ (ἱλάσκομαι);

1. an appeasing, propitiating, Vulg.propitiatio (Plutarch, de sera num. vind. c. 17; plural joined with καθαρμοι, Plutarch, Sol. 12; with the genitive of the object τῶν θεῶν, the Orphica Arg. 39; Plutarch, Fab. 18; θεῶν μῆνιν ἱλασμοῦ καί χαριστηριων δεομένην, vit. Camill. 7 at the end; ποιεῖσθαι ἱλασμόν, of a priest offering an expiatory sacrifice, 2 Macc. 3:33).

2. in Alex. usage the means of appeasing, a propitiation: Philo, alleg. leg. 3: § 61; προσοίσουσιν ἱλασμόν, for חַטָּאת, Ezekiel 44:27; περί τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν, of Christ, 1 John 2:2; 1 John 4:10 (κριός τοῦ ἱλασμοῦ, Numbers 5:8; (cf. ἡμέρα τοῦ ἱλασμοῦ, Leviticus 25:9); also for סְלִיחָה, forgiveness, Psalm 129:4 (); Daniel 9:9, Theod.). (Cf. Trench, § lxxvii.)

What is expiation or atonement?


"Atonement" is to attain forgiveness for some sin or transgression, e.g. "I atoned for betraying my friend". It is something that you do. "Expiation" means to clear away the record, to make it as if it never existed. It is not something you can do - you cannot expiate your own sins

hope this helps !!!
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Yes what he said ☝️
 
J

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
Chalcedon said:
As you noticed the passage does not say He purchased every single person but that He purchased people from every tribe and nation. That is a big difference. So in the above passage the ones purchased are limited in scope. This verse cannot in its context support that every single person who has ever lived had their sins purchased by His blood. There are better verses that can be used to support that argument such as in 1 John 2:1-2 and John 1:29. And even those verses as you have noticed are debated even among Calvinists.

hope this helps !!!
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Hmmm 🤔
 
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