Jesus atoned for the sins of the whole world

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TomFL

Guest
civic said:
It’s hard to argue against Calvins own words in John 1:29. As a Calvinist I must be honest and agree with you Tom.

Im not saying one cannot disagree with him there but it’s what he taught on John 1:29.

And this coming from one who believes in limited atonement .

hope this helps !!!
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Yes many will argue Calvin was a 4 pointer

There were 4 pointers even at Dort
 
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TomFL

Guest
Carbon said:
I believe Calvin was referring to all people of the world, from every tribe, tongue and nation. Not just the Jews, as the Jews thought.
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It does not appear that way

see also


OCTOBER 5, 2006​

One of My Favorite Calvin Quotes: On Romans 5:18​



He makes this favor common to all, because it is propounded to all, and not because it is in reality extended to all; for though Christ suffered for the sins of the whole world, and is offered through God's benignity indiscriminately to all, yet all do not receive him.—John Calvin on Romans 5:18
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In the Torrance edition:
Paul makes grace common to all men, not because it in fact extends to all, but because it is offered to all. Although Christ suffered for the sins of the world, and is offered by the goodness of God without distinction to all men, yet not all receive Him.
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John Calvin, “The Epistles of Paul the Apostle to the Romans and to the Thessalonians,” trans. R. MacKenzie, in Calvin's New Testament Commentaries, ed. D. W. Torrance and T. F. Torrance, 12 vols. (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1994–96), 8:117–18.

1) Calvin says that the gospel call is an "offer."

Some may object to the notion that the gospel is an "offer" or an "invitation," but not Calvin. He understood the conditionality of the gospel call and/or man's responsibility to believe. Though Christ died for you, he must be voluntarily "received" through faith in order to be justified.

2) Calvin says that the gospel is offered "through God's benignity [or goodness]."

God's offer of Christ to all that hear the gospel call is grounded in his goodness, kindness and love (or benignity). In other words, according to Calvin, it's a well-meant or sincere offer.

3) Calvin says that God benignantly offers Christ "indiscriminately to all."

It's not merely the case that we, in our ignorance of who is elect and who is not, are to offer Christ indiscriminately to all, but that God himself offers Christ through our gospel call in an indiscriminate fashion (to both elect and non-elect). God is not ignorant of his chosen ones, but he still offers Christ to all indiscriminately, i.e. even to the non-elect.

See this R. B. Kuiper quote for more on this subject.

4) Calvin says that Christ suffered "for the sins of the whole world."

Some may try to escape what Calvin is saying here, but the honest mind can see that the "all" who "do not receive him" are a subset of the "world." Calvin does not equate the "world" with the elect scattered abroad here. He clearly says that Christ suffered for the sins of some who do not receive him (i.e. the non-elect). One can find other quotes from Calvin where he says that Christ died for some who finally perish.

It does not follow that he thinks that Christ suffered for all with an equal intent to save all, so let not that straw man be erected. There are more options other than 1) Christ suffered only for the salvation of the elect or 2) Christ suffered for all with an equal intent to save all. The tertium quid is 3) Christ intended to suffer for the whole world sufficiently, but he especially (unequal intention) suffered for the elect. This is why Charles Hodge says in his Systematic Theology that, "it has in all ages been customary with Augustinians to say that Christ died 'sufficienter pro omnibus, efficaciter tantum pro electis;' sufficiently for all, efficaciously only for the elect. There is a sense, therefore, in which He died for all, and there is a sense in which He died for the elect alone." Richard Baxter rightly says in his work on Universal Redemption that:
When God saith so expressly that Christ died for all [2 Cor. 5: 14–15], and tasted death for every man [Heb. 2: 9], and is the ransom for all [1 Tim. 2: 6], and the propitiation for the sins of the whole world [1 Jn. 2: 2], it beseems every Christian rather to explain in what sense Christ died for all, than flatly to deny it.
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One of My Favorite John Calvin (1509–1564) Quotes: On Romans 5:18

One of My Favorite John Calvin (1509–1564) Quotes: On Romans 5:18
theologicalmeditations.blogspot.com theologicalmeditations.blogspot.com
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Carbon

Carbon

Well-known member
civic said:
That could be but he did not articulate that like he does elsewhere .
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“And when he says, the sin Of The World, he extends this favor indiscriminately to the whole human race; that the Jews might not think that he had been sent to them alone.”
 
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TomFL

Guest
civic said:
If we isolated that verse and his comments from the rest of his commentaries one could conclude that for sure.
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See also Calvin's comments of Rom 5:18

Jesus atoned for the sins of the whole world

It’s hard to argue against Calvins own words in John 1:29. As a Calvinist I must be honest and agree with you Tom. Im not saying one cannot disagree with him there but it’s what he taught on John 1:29. And this coming from one who believes in limited atonement . hope this helps !!! Yes many...
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Chalcedon

Chalcedon

Well-known member
Carbon said:
“And when he says, the sin Of The World, he extends this favor indiscriminately to the whole human race; that the Jews might not think that he had been sent to them alone.”
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Are you saying the whole human race is not all inclusive ?

Here is a definition I found : all of the living human inhabitants of the earth

PS- I always think it’s a good idea to clarify the meaning of words / phrases so we can be on the same page in these discussions so that things are not misunderstood.

hope this helps !!!
 
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TomFL

Guest
ReverendRV said:
By saying Calvin is a 4-Pointer, he takes an anti-Conpatibalism approch to Calvin's Commentary; like he does with Scripture...
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There is nothing free about determined desires that may truly be seen as free will
 
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TomFL

Guest
civic said:
That could be but he did not articulate that like he does elsewhere .
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There are even quotes from Edwards

Universal Redemption,” Edwards wrote:
UNIVERSAL REDEMPTION. In some sense, redemption is universal of all mankind: all mankind now have an opportunity to be saved otherwise than they would have had if Christ had not died. A door of mercy is in some sort opened for them. This is one benefit actually consequent on Christ’s death; but the benefits that are actually consequent on Christ’s death and are obtained by Christ’s death, doubtless Christ intended to obtain by his death. It was one thing he aimed at by his death; or which is the same thing, he died to obtain it, as it was one end of his death.52
Likewise Edwards wrote,
Christ’s incarnation, his labors and sufferings, his resurrection, etc., were for the salvation of such as are not elected, in Scripture language, in the same sense as the means of grace are for their salvation; in the same sense as the instruction, counsels, warnings and invitations that are given them, are for their salvation.53
Whosoever Will (pp. 76-77). B&H Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

52 J. Edwards [1743], “Book of Minutes on the Arminian Controversy” Gazeteer Notebook, in Works of Jonathan Edwards Online, vol. 37, Documents on the Trinity, Grace and Faith (Jonathan Edwards Center at Yale University, 2008), 10–11. 53 J. Edwards [1743], Works of Jonathan Edwards Online, vol. 27, “Controversies”

53 J. Edwards [1743], Works of Jonathan Edwards Online, vol. 27, “Controversies”
 
Carbon

Carbon

Well-known member
TomFL said:
There are even quotes from Edwards

Universal Redemption,” Edwards wrote:
UNIVERSAL REDEMPTION. In some sense, redemption is universal of all mankind: all mankind now have an opportunity to be saved otherwise than they would have had if Christ had not died. A door of mercy is in some sort opened for them. This is one benefit actually consequent on Christ’s death; but the benefits that are actually consequent on Christ’s death and are obtained by Christ’s death, doubtless Christ intended to obtain by his death. It was one thing he aimed at by his death; or which is the same thing, he died to obtain it, as it was one end of his death.52
Likewise Edwards wrote,
Christ’s incarnation, his labors and sufferings, his resurrection, etc., were for the salvation of such as are not elected, in Scripture language, in the same sense as the means of grace are for their salvation; in the same sense as the instruction, counsels, warnings and invitations that are given them, are for their salvation.53
Whosoever Will (pp. 76-77). B&H Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

52 J. Edwards [1743], “Book of Minutes on the Arminian Controversy” Gazeteer Notebook, in Works of Jonathan Edwards Online, vol. 37, Documents on the Trinity, Grace and Faith (Jonathan Edwards Center at Yale University, 2008), 10–11. 53 J. Edwards [1743], Works of Jonathan Edwards Online, vol. 27, “Controversies”

53 J. Edwards [1743], Works of Jonathan Edwards Online, vol. 27, “Controversies”
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Easy Tom you make make civic an Arminian
 
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