Jesus Christ in Us Is Why We Are Guiltless For Profaning the Sabbath

Hark

Well-known member
Below is Jesus being addressed by the Jews accusing His disciples of profaning the sabbath.

Jesus referred to 2 incidents in the O.T. where the saints had profaned the sabbath but were guiltless because they were in the temple.

Then Jesus explained why His disciples were guiltless because One greater than the temple was here; meaning because Jesus Christ was with them.

Matthew 12:1At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat. 2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. 3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; 4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? 5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? 6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. 7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

The law of keeping the sabbath was not done away with, but Jesus is testifying why we are guiltless for profaning the sabbath because Jesus fulfilled the law for us to be saved because by believing in Him is how we are saved so that we no longer need to keep the sabbath TO OBTAIN salvation by.

Look at the new reality in Christ Jesus where our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit & Jesus Christ is in us and with us always for why we are guiltless.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

It is a known requirement for Jews in keeping the sabbath to stone to death Jews breaking the sabbath. So are sabbath keepers really keeping the sabbath? No.

Are sabbath keepers relying on others to provide services and goods on the sabbath day? That is also forbidden back then. They were not allowed to have servants work on the sabbath.

But the Good News is your justification is not by keeping the sabbath because Jesus Christ has saved us without the deeds of the law.

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

That is why Paul was saying not to judge any man by a day or the sabbath day for the Lord Jesus Christ in us is able to make us stand. Hallelujah !

Rromans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. 7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. 8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

Colossians 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

So those who keep the sabbath day can keep it for honoring the Lord on that day, but not for obtaining salvation by, les you deny Him as your Saviour. You are not to be keeping it as the Jews have been keeping it, les you be brought into bondage to fear. But recognize what Jesus Christ has done having saved you; He is in you!
 

ontheBeam

Member
Hi Hark, I am a bit confused to say the least. First might I ask if you are a Seventh-day Adventist? SDAs would heartedly disagree with some your post. Surely Jesus forgives our sins, no problem with that.

You refer to David's desecration of God's house and was guiltless, Jesus defending the disciples for picking grain on Sabbath and the priests working on Sabbath. There isn't even any forgiveness asked concerning the breaking of the law. Jesus made an excuse for picking the grain and telling the Pharisees that He gave them mercy over sacrifice. They all broke ceremonial laws and may I suggest that had they broken laws dealing with morality, Jesus could not have sluffed it off. There is no excuse for stealing from someone.

You wrote that the Sabbath was not done away. How about new moons, festivals, sacrificing animals, cutting sideburns, blending wool with flax and all of the remainder of the 613 laws that dealt with the Israelites? You wrote that the good news is our justification is not by keeping the Sabbath because Jesus has saved us without the deeds of the Law. I fully agree with your statement.

You continue to quote scripture that exonerate Sabbath observers because it is impossible to observe as per the law.

So, my confusion comes as to why would anyone feel the need to observe a day that causes them not to be able to earn a living doing work that is pleasing, prohibit shopping, eating in restaurants, traveling and all the other things other Christians do freely without any guilt? Where there is no law there is no sin.
 

Hark

Well-known member
Hi Hark, I am a bit confused to say the least. First might I ask if you are a Seventh-day Adventist?
No. I am relying on Jesus Christ as my Good Shepherd to help me serve Him in testifying of Him in seeking His glory rather than any glory of a church.
SDAs would heartedly disagree with some your post.
And we may find SDA disagreeing with each other too, but Jesus is the one that confirms His words to us to be pruned so we can be more fruitful.

John 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Surely Jesus forgives our sins, no problem with that.
Yes, but still trying to keep the sabbath day holy as in the O.T. cannot be done now as the Jews did under the Old Covenant because they are required to keep the sabbath by stoning to death any one breaking the sabbath. If anyone thinks God will give grace to keep trying when they is no way they can keep it the way the Jews did as the nation of Israel, then they make God a minister of sin under His grace which God forbids.

There is forgiveness when some SDA are not keeping it to obtain salvation by when they are already saved. To judge others as sinning is to judge others by the law and thus they be judged by the law and they cannot really keep what the Jews were commanded to do as a nation.
You refer to David's desecration of God's house and was guiltless, Jesus defending the disciples for picking grain on Sabbath and the priests working on Sabbath. There isn't even any forgiveness asked concerning the breaking of the law. Jesus made an excuse for picking the grain and telling the Pharisees that He gave them mercy over sacrifice. They all broke ceremonial laws and may I suggest that had they broken laws dealing with morality, Jesus could not have sluffed it off. There is no excuse for stealing from someone.
Jesus referred to the temple for why the O.T. saints were being in were how they were guiltless. Then Jesus refers to One bring greater than the Temple was here thus inferring Himself for why His disciples were guiltless.
You wrote that the Sabbath was not done away. How about new moons, festivals, sacrificing animals, cutting sideburns, blending wool with flax and all of the remainder of the 613 laws that dealt with the Israelites? You wrote that the good news is our justification is not by keeping the Sabbath because Jesus has saved us without the deeds of the Law. I fully agree with your statement.
The law of keeping the Sabbath was not done away with BUT that law along with the ceremonial laws were also nailed to the cross as laws we are not to judge others by for Jesus Christ fulfilled the law with His righteousness whereby faith in Him apart from the law justifies us. So the law will not justify us.. but Jesus Christ has done it. Jesus Christ is the Good News to man and that is Whom we are to represent rather than ourselves us as SDA or any other church by.
You continue to quote scripture that exonerate Sabbath observers because it is impossible to observe as per the law.
Because neither of us are not to judge whether they honor the Lord that day or not. It works both ways.
So, my confusion comes as to why would anyone feel the need to observe a day that causes them not to be able to earn a living doing work that is pleasing, prohibit shopping, eating in restaurants, traveling and all the other things other Christians do freely without any guilt? Where there is no law there is no sin.
It is when someone observes a day or regard a day and yet judges another for not observing that day nor honor that day as unto the Lord is when it becomes sin that they will have to answer to the Lord for because He is able to make them stand. No one should be judging any one by any day. That is the liberty in Christ. It would be better for SDA to stop representing themselves as SDA when we are called to be representing Jesus Christ. A lot of churches are in need of doing this; not just the SDA. Most churches are identified by the city they are in for location only when you consider the early churches in the N.T.
 

ontheBeam

Member
Every person on this Earth should have the privilege to worship corporately when and where they please. The blood of tens of thousands have been spilt to guarantee this freedom. Millions of us would do the same.

Love and respect should be the lens we see through. We should and thankfully do have the right to questions the beliefs of others. We cannot learn in a vacuum and may need to see new light. Debating the issues is fruitful.

I really did enjoy reading your posts on the Sabbath issue. I was a SDA for forty years. We were taught that the SDA church is the only true church and if we didn't "keep" Sabbath we would be lost. Thankfully I have, through the power of the Holy Spirit, led me to scripture that is has given me much insight as to how Jesus wants me to live.
 

pythons

Active member
A Christian living post Resurrection profaning the Sabbath would be like a Christian profaning the Feast of Weeks or Booths - its not possible for a Christian to profane these things.
 

Hark

Well-known member
A Christian living post Resurrection profaning the Sabbath would be like a Christian profaning the Feast of Weeks or Booths - its not possible for a Christian to profane these things.
Can you keep the sabbath the way the Jews did as a nation when they were also required to stone Jews breaking the sabbath day in order for the nation to keep the sabbath day? yet there is no careful instructions to Christians on how to keep the sabbath now in the N.T. without stoning sabbath day breakers.

What we do find in teaching Gentile converts are these instructions rather than the law of Moses.

Acts 15:3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren. 4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them. 5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them. 13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: 14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. 15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, 16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: 17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. 18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. 19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Important to note verse 21 above that this is about what those who preach Moses in the synagogue on the sabbath day; not about when Christians did. No Christian would be able to hold their services in Jewish synagogues & I doubt the Jews would give them permission either.

If there be any doubt...they would be careful to teach the Gentiles that law of Moses to keep in the following verses below.

22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas and Silas, chief men among the brethren: 23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia. 24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: 25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; 29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

No mention of keeping or observing the sabbath day to Gentile believers. It is not taught anywhere for the church to do in the N.T.

We do find when they are to do their collection and it was on the first day of the week; Sunday.

1 Corinthians 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. 2 Upon the first day of the week
let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

This was an order for all churches so that there be no special collection for missionaries that they support when they come to visit. They were to agree to an amount that would be set aside from the bounty collected for what the church as a whole agree to in supporting missionaries in the field. This was to abstain from the appearance of covetousness from both the visiting missionaries and the leaders of the church asking for donations.
 

Formersda

Active member
Under the old covenant there was no mercy, there was no circumstances that would allow you to break the Law.

In legal terminology here in the UK to be convicted of a crime you must satisfy 2 requirements, 1) The Actus Reas (the guilty act) 2) The Mens rea (the guilty mind).
With the mens rea there are defences to the act ie: direct intent or indirect intent.
If you go to the story in Numbers 15:32-36 of the man caught gathering sticks on the Sabbath and was stoned was convicted only by the guilty act, there was no defence to his act. That’s how the mosaic covenant was, death.

Jesus though in his sermon on the mount gave the mens rea (guilty mind) for instance Matthew 5:27,28 “You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY’, (Actus Reas), but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. (Mens Rea).

The New Covenant puts more of an onus on us, as to what our intents are rather than what we do.
John 15:12 “This is my commandant, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.”
This is one of the toughest commandments that we love everyone even if they are not of your own family.
Therefore, if we love our fellow image bearers of God we will not kill, steal commit adultery etc.

The New Covenant is love not doing.

By following the Old Covenant you will be judged according (Hebrews 10:26-28) to it and there are no ifs nor buts, you either broke the law or you didn’t. It didn’t matter if you thought dark thoughts that was not part of the Law.
Peter states in the Jerusalem council (Acts 15:10) that the yoke their fathers found unbearable, Jesus says put My yoke upon you and I will give you rest. The yoke is the Law.

Jesus paid for our sins once and for all on the cross when He cried “It is finished”. If that wasn’t a full atonement He would have to be sacrificed over and over each time one of us sins. Because only human blood can pay for human sins, the animals that where sacrificed never made up the atonement only Christ.

It was God who hung on that cross and satisfied the atonement.
 

pythons

Active member
Can you keep the sabbath the way the Jews did as a nation when they were also required to stone Jews breaking the sabbath day in order for the nation to keep the sabbath day? yet there is no careful instructions to Christians on how to keep the sabbath now in the N.T. without stoning sabbath day breakers.

What we do find in teaching Gentile converts are these instructions rather than the law of Moses.

Acts 15:3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren. 4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them. 5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them. 13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: 14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. 15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, 16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: 17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. 18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. 19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Important to note verse 21 above that this is about what those who preach Moses in the synagogue on the sabbath day; not about when Christians did. No Christian would be able to hold their services in Jewish synagogues & I doubt the Jews would give them permission either.

If there be any doubt...they would be careful to teach the Gentiles that law of Moses to keep in the following verses below.

22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas and Silas, chief men among the brethren: 23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia. 24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: 25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; 29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

No mention of keeping or observing the sabbath day to Gentile believers. It is not taught anywhere for the church to do in the N.T.

We do find when they are to do their collection and it was on the first day of the week; Sunday.

1 Corinthians 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. 2 Upon the first day of the week
let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

This was an order for all churches so that there be no special collection for missionaries that they support when they come to visit. They were to agree to an amount that would be set aside from the bounty collected for what the church as a whole agree to in supporting missionaries in the field. This was to abstain from the appearance of covetousness from both the visiting missionaries and the leaders of the church asking for donations.

I'm pretty much in lock-step with what you've said!

I'd also add that Acts 15 makes it really clear that an individuals desire to possess & exercise "religious authority" in the Church isn't sated by their "self-identification" as a religious authority. "

"Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment".

Your point as to the Collection is also spot-on as gathering together for Christian assembly was an Apostolic Order....
....Which was confirmed again here:

Hebrews 10,25
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Its obvious that by the time Paul said what he did to the Corinthians, all the Churches of Galatia, etc...
...Christians were already assembling "themselves" together on the 1st day of the week.
 

Hark

Well-known member
Under the old covenant there was no mercy, there was no circumstances that would allow you to break the Law.
Yet Jesus gave 2 examples when the saints had broken the law profaning the sabbath but were guiltless for being in the Temple. Then Jesus segue to the present defense of His disciples in how they are guiltless because One greater than the Temple was here per Matthew 12:1-7 in the OP. So you pretty much have to read the OP again for how we are all guiltless for profaning the sabbath now.
In legal terminology here in the UK to be convicted of a crime you must satisfy 2 requirements, 1) The Actus Reas (the guilty act) 2) The Mens rea (the guilty mind).
With the mens rea there are defences to the act ie: direct intent or indirect intent.
If you go to the story in Numbers 15:32-36 of the man caught gathering sticks on the Sabbath and was stoned was convicted only by the guilty act, there was no defence to his act. That’s how the mosaic covenant was, death.

Jesus though in his sermon on the mount gave the mens rea (guilty mind) for instance Matthew 5:27,28 “You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY’, (Actus Reas), but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. (Mens Rea).

The New Covenant puts more of an onus on us, as to what our intents are rather than what we do.
John 15:12 “This is my commandant, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.”
This is one of the toughest commandments that we love everyone even if they are not of your own family.
Therefore, if we love our fellow image bearers of God we will not kill, steal commit adultery etc.

The New Covenant is love not doing.

By following the Old Covenant you will be judged according (Hebrews 10:26-28) to it and there are no ifs nor buts, you either broke the law or you didn’t. It didn’t matter if you thought dark thoughts that was not part of the Law.
Peter states in the Jerusalem council (Acts 15:10) that the yoke their fathers found unbearable, Jesus says put My yoke upon you and I will give you rest. The yoke is the Law.
Does not apply when Jesus had referred to 2 examples in scripture for when the saints had actually profaned the sabbath but were guiltless just by being in the Temple. So it is best to reread the OP to understand how that can be for why we are now guiltless for profaning the sabbath.
Jesus paid for our sins once and for all on the cross when He cried “It is finished”. If that wasn’t a full atonement He would have to be sacrificed over and over each time one of us sins. Because only human blood can pay for human sins, the animals that where sacrificed never made up the atonement only Christ.

It was God who hung on that cross and satisfied the atonement.
Yet it is written that we had received the atonement from God through the Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
 

Formersda

Active member
Does not apply when Jesus had referred to 2 examples in scripture for when the saints had actually profaned the sabbath but were guiltless just by being in the Temple. So it is best to reread the OP to understand how that can be for why we are now guiltless for profaning the sabbath.
Yes it does apply to the Law. show me where the old covenant showed mercy.
Yet it is written that we had received the atonement from God through the Lord Jesus Christ.
Jesus is God Col 1:15

I was actually referring to the old covenant not the new one.
 

Hark

Well-known member
I'm pretty much in lock-step with what you've said!

I'd also add that Acts 15 makes it really clear that an individuals desire to possess & exercise "religious authority" in the Church isn't sated by their "self-identification" as a religious authority. "

"Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment".

Your point as to the Collection is also spot-on as gathering together for Christian assembly was an Apostolic Order....
....Which was confirmed again here:

Hebrews 10,25
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Its obvious that by the time Paul said what he did to the Corinthians, all the Churches of Galatia, etc...
...Christians were already assembling "themselves" together on the 1st day of the week.
For some strange reason, I had not read your earlier reply correctly. Why I was so compelled to respond with more truths, God only knows.

I apologize, even though how He had led me to reply was still in agreement with what you had posted in spite of my shortcoming. Praise Him !

Thank you for sharing and confirming the word in scripture. :)
 

Hark

Well-known member
Yes it does apply to the Law. show me where the old covenant showed mercy.
Jesus talked about it in the OP per Matthew 12:1-7
Jesus is God Col 1:15
I agree but this was from God the Father through Jesus Christ as Christ is God also.

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
I was actually referring to the old covenant not the new one.
Okay. Thanks for the clarification.
 

Formersda

Active member
Jesus talked about it in the OP per Matthew 12:1-7

I agree but this was from God the Father through Jesus Christ as Christ is God also.

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Okay. Thanks for the clarification.
I am fully aware of who Jesus is in the atonement but I was also reiterating Jesus is God, as my background from Adventism really down plays who Jesus really is.
 

Hark

Well-known member
I am fully aware of who Jesus is in the atonement but I was also reiterating Jesus is God, as my background from Adventism really down plays who Jesus really is.
Okay. Thank you for sharing, but you kind of threw me when you said there was no mercy under the Old Covenant when Jesus did cite a few examples where mercy was given because of them being in the Temple.
 

Formersda

Active member
Okay. Thank you for sharing, but you kind of threw me when you said there was no mercy under the Old Covenant when Jesus did cite a few examples where mercy was given because of them being in the Temple.
Yes there where those examples but only David was able to do it there has been no other instance. On the whole the old covenant was harsh
 

Hark

Well-known member
Yes there where those examples but only David was able to do it there has been no other instance. On the whole the old covenant was harsh
No. Not only David.

Matthew 12:1At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat. 2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. 3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; 4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? 5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? 6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. 7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
 

Formersda

Active member
No. Not only David.

Matthew 12:1At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat. 2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. 3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; 4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? 5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? 6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. 7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
It was only David and his men who ate the shewbread
 

Formersda

Active member
Not quite right, because Jesus cited another example regarding the priests in verse 5 and not just David and the men that were with him in verse 4..
For the priests it was a command Lev 24:5-8, Jesus wasn’t excusing them because of mercy they were commanded to change and make the show bread on the sabbath therefore they were guiltless. They would have been guilty if they hadn’t followed that command.
 
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