Jesus Christ in Us Is Why We Are Guiltless For Profaning the Sabbath

JonHawk

Active member
JonHawk said:

For the law is fulfilled in Christ, granting righteousness to everyone who believes in Him as Savior.​


Because Christ fulfilled the law and imputes us with His righteousness is the very reason why we don't violate the sabbath rest.

Only Christ Jesus can show you how you are opposing yourself. The second statement opposes and is hypocritical to the first statement in bold
Actually Christ offers the rest that you hypocritically oppose. “My Presence will go with you, and I will give you rest.”

Failure of the Wilderness Wanderers

And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. Heb 3

Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. For we who have believed do enter that rest. Heb 4

 

Hark

Well-known member
JonHawk said:

For the law is fulfilled in Christ, granting righteousness to everyone who believes in Him as Savior.​


Because Christ fulfilled the law and imputes us with His righteousness is the very reason why we don't violate the sabbath rest.


Actually Christ offers the rest that you hypocritically oppose. “My Presence will go with you, and I will give you rest.”

Failure of the Wilderness Wanderers

And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. Heb 3

Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. For we who have believed do enter that rest. Heb 4

Believing in Jesus Christ that you are saved is how you enter into that rest.

Believing you still need to keep the next sabbath day to obtain salvation by the deeds of the law is hardly resting in Jesus Christ that you are saved.
 

JonHawk

Active member
Believing in Jesus Christ that you are saved is how you enter into that rest.
Yes, we have already addressed this:

JonHawk:
These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
Believing you still need to keep the next sabbath day to obtain salvation by the deeds of the law is hardly resting in Jesus Christ that you are saved.
Why don't you stop babbling? You're made alive in Christ or you're dead in your sins and trespasses.
 

JonHawk

Active member
Actually Christ offers the rest that you hypocritically oppose. “My Presence will go with you, and I will give you rest.”

Failure of the Wilderness Wanderers

And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. Heb 3

Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. For we who have believed do enter that rest. Heb 4

Believing in Jesus Christ that you are saved is how you enter into that rest.
Yes, we have already addressed this:

JonHawk:
These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ
Believing you still need to keep the next sabbath day to obtain salvation by the deeds of the law is hardly resting in Jesus Christ that you are saved.
Why don't you stop babbling? You're made alive in Christ or you're dead in your sins and trespasses.

if you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and that God raised him from the dead, you are saved.
That is right because that seal of adoption, the Holy Spirit, is not going anywhere, ( Ephesians 4:30 )

On their part He is [profaned], but on your part He is glorified.
 

Hark

Well-known member
Yes, we have already addressed this:

JonHawk:
These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

Why don't you stop babbling? You're made alive in Christ or you're dead in your sins and trespasses.
Why don't you address His words in Matthew 12:1-7 for why His disciples were guiltless for profaning the sabbath?
 

JonHawk

Active member
Yes, we have already addressed this:

JonHawk:
These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ

Why don't you stop babbling? You're made alive in Christ or you're dead in your sins and trespasses.

On their part He is [profaned], but on your part He is glorified.
Why don't you address His words in Matthew 12:1-7 for why His disciples were guiltless for profaning the sabbath?
"Yet I say to you that in this place there is One greater than the temple."

So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.
 

JonHawk

Active member
As He says also in Hosea:
“I will call them My people, who were not My people, And her beloved, who was not beloved.”
“And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them,
‘You are not My people,’ There they shall be called sons of the living God.”
For He will finish the work and cut it short in righteousness, Because the Lord will make a short work upon the earth.

So the keeping of the sabbath is not lord over man.

And as Isaiah said before:
“Unless the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, We would have become like Sodom,
And we would have been made like Gomorrah.” Romans 9:25-30
 

Icyspark

Active member
Below is Jesus being addressed by the Jews accusing His disciples of profaning the sabbath.

Jesus referred to 2 incidents in the O.T. where the saints had profaned the sabbath but were guiltless because they were in the temple.

Then Jesus explained why His disciples were guiltless because One greater than the temple was here; meaning because Jesus Christ was with them.

Matthew 12:1At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat. 2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. 3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; 4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? 5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? 6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. 7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

The law of keeping the sabbath was not done away with, but Jesus is testifying why we are guiltless for profaning the sabbath because Jesus fulfilled the law for us to be saved because by believing in Him is how we are saved so that we no longer need to keep the sabbath TO OBTAIN salvation by.

Look at the new reality in Christ Jesus where our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit & Jesus Christ is in us and with us always for why we are guiltless.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

It is a known requirement for Jews in keeping the sabbath to stone to death Jews breaking the sabbath. So are sabbath keepers really keeping the sabbath? No.

Are sabbath keepers relying on others to provide services and goods on the sabbath day? That is also forbidden back then. They were not allowed to have servants work on the sabbath.

But the Good News is your justification is not by keeping the sabbath because Jesus Christ has saved us without the deeds of the law.

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

That is why Paul was saying not to judge any man by a day or the sabbath day for the Lord Jesus Christ in us is able to make us stand. Hallelujah !

Rromans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. 7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. 8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

Colossians 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

So those who keep the sabbath day can keep it for honoring the Lord on that day, but not for obtaining salvation by, les you deny Him as your Saviour. You are not to be keeping it as the Jews have been keeping it, les you be brought into bondage to fear. But recognize what Jesus Christ has done having saved you; He is in you!

Hi Hark,

The title of your opening post starts with: "Jesus Christ in Us . . ."

In 2 Corinthians 13:5 Paul says, "Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course you fail the test?"

How do you know Jesus Christ is in you? How does one fail Paul's admonition to discover if "Jesus is in you"?

God bless!
 

Hark

Well-known member
Hi Hark,

The title of your opening post starts with: "Jesus Christ in Us . . ."

In 2 Corinthians 13:5 Paul says, "Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course you fail the test?"

How do you know Jesus Christ is in you? How does one fail Paul's admonition to discover if "Jesus is in you"?

God bless!
Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith., ....26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

The fact that you believe in Jesus Christ & that God has raised him from the dead means you are saved & have the promise of the Holy Spirit in you by faith in Jesus Christ; not as the world receives spirits by seeing spirits.

Since no man can come to the Son unless the Father draws him ( John 6:44 ) and it is the Father that reveals the Son for us to be able to believe in Him to be saved ( Matthew 11:25-27 ), then our believing in Him is a work of God too ( John 3:18-21 ).

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
 

Icyspark

Active member
Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith., ....26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

The fact that you believe in Jesus Christ & that God has raised him from the dead means you are saved & have the promise of the Holy Spirit in you by faith in Jesus Christ; not as the world receives spirits by seeing spirits.

Since no man can come to the Son unless the Father draws him ( John 6:44 ) and it is the Father that reveals the Son for us to be able to believe in Him to be saved ( Matthew 11:25-27 ), then our believing in Him is a work of God too ( John 3:18-21 ).


John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.


Hi Hark,

As far as I can see, none of the above texts you've shared provide an answer as to how to know whether "Jesus Christ is in you." Your premise appears to be that if "you believe in Jesus Christ & that God has raised him from the dead" that "you are saved." Apparently Paul disagrees with this premise as he explicitly indicates to his audience that they need to "Examine [themselves] to see whether [they] are in the faith." He says that in this self examination that they are to determine whether "Jesus Christ is in you." How is it that a someone who believes in Jesus Christ and that God raised Him from the dead can fail this self exam?

God bless!
 

Hark

Well-known member
Hi Hark,

As far as I can see, none of the above texts you've shared provide an answer as to how to know whether "Jesus Christ is in you." Your premise appears to be that if "you believe in Jesus Christ & that God has raised him from the dead" that "you are saved." Apparently Paul disagrees with this premise as he explicitly indicates to his audience that they need to "Examine [themselves] to see whether [they] are in the faith." He says that in this self examination that they are to determine whether "Jesus Christ is in you." How is it that a someone who believes in Jesus Christ and that God raised Him from the dead can fail this self exam?

God bless!
You missed it.

Since no man can come to the Son unless the Father draws him ( John 6:44 ) and it is the Father that reveals the Son for us to be able to believe in Him to be saved ( Matthew 11:25-27 ), then our believing in Him is a work of God too ( John 3:18-21 ).

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

The fact that a believer believes, is a work of the Father otherwise, the believer would never had been able to believe in Him to be saved. That is why Galatians 3:14,26 applies that we are children of God by faith in Jesus Christ, that the promise of the Holy Spirit dwells in us by faith.

So if a believer doubts his salvation or having the Holy Spirit in him, the fact that he believes in Jesus Christ proves that He does dwell in him since his salvation when he had come to & believed in Jesus Christ..
 

Icyspark

Active member
You missed it.

Since no man can come to the Son unless the Father draws him ( John 6:44 ) and it is the Father that reveals the Son for us to be able to believe in Him to be saved ( Matthew 11:25-27 ), then our believing in Him is a work of God too ( John 3:18-21 ).

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

The fact that a believer believes, is a work of the Father otherwise, the believer would never had been able to believe in Him to be saved. That is why Galatians 3:14,26 applies that we are children of God by faith in Jesus Christ, that the promise of the Holy Spirit dwells in us by faith.

So if a believer doubts his salvation or having the Holy Spirit in him, the fact that he believes in Jesus Christ proves that He does dwell in him since his salvation when he had come to & believed in Jesus Christ..


Hi Hark,

I'm not seeing that you're specifically addressing what Paul wrote and my questions relating to said writings. So maybe it's not me that's missing it?

Let's look again at what I wrote:

In 2 Corinthians 13:5 Paul says, "Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course you FAIL the test?"

One thing I would suggest in order to address this text would be to look at what it means to have Jesus Christ in you.

In Romans 8 Paul writes about life through the Spirit.

Romans 8:1-4
1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Ok, so my belief, based on what Paul wrote above in 2 Corinthians is that IF Christ is in you then there is no condemnation. The IF is not a given and as we continue to read what Paul has to say in Romans this iffy postulation is borne out. That's why Paul indicates that Christians shouldn't just assume that they are "in the faith" but they need to do a self exam to discover IF that is indeed true. Paul is pretty clear in saying that it is possible to FAIL the self exam.

Continuing to verses 5-8

5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.

My take away from these verses is that living by the flesh is bad. Living by the flesh is incompatible with living by the Spirit. Do you agree? I think Jesus agrees with this thought when He said there is no harmony between Christ and Belial or between a believer and an unbeliever. He also indicated that we are to "see to it, then, that the light within you is not darkness." That seems to be very similar to Paul's premise.

Let's continue now to a bunch of ifs in Paul's counsel to us.

9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, IF indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And IF anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But IF Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. 11 And IF the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.

Again, it is not a given that just because you claim that the Spirit lives within you doesn't mean that's the case.

So how can we know IF the Spirit is living in us?

12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For IF you live according to the flesh, you will die; but IF by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

Paul answers my question by contrasting living by the flesh with living by the Spirit. IF the Spirit is living within you then you will "put to death the misdeeds of the body" and "you will live." You don't get to claim that the Spirit (or Jesus Christ) is living within you while at the same time you are embracing "the misdeeds of the body."

I pray this helps.
 

Hark

Well-known member
Hi Hark,

I'm not seeing that you're specifically addressing what Paul wrote and my questions relating to said writings. So maybe it's not me that's missing it?

Let's look again at what I wrote:

One thing I would suggest in order to address this text would be to look at what it means to have Jesus Christ in you.

In Romans 8 Paul writes about life through the Spirit.

Romans 8:1-4
1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Ok, so my belief, based on what Paul wrote above in 2 Corinthians is that IF Christ is in you then there is no condemnation. The IF is not a given and as we continue to read what Paul has to say in Romans this iffy postulation is borne out. That's why Paul indicates that Christians shouldn't just assume that they are "in the faith" but they need to do a self exam to discover IF that is indeed true. Paul is pretty clear in saying that it is possible to FAIL the self exam.
Romans 8:1-4 does not have an "if" for you to apply that to what you are trying to say. Paul is warning that there is no condemnation to those abiding in Christ by not walking after the flesh but after the Spirit. But there is condemnation to those in Christ for walking after the flesh in defiling the temple of God ( 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 ) by reaping corruption ( Galatians 6:7-8 ).

Continuing to verses 5-8

5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.

My take away from these verses is that living by the flesh is bad. Living by the flesh is incompatible with living by the Spirit. Do you agree? I think Jesus agrees with this thought when He said there is no harmony between Christ and Belial or between a believer and an unbeliever. He also indicated that we are to "see to it, then, that the light within you is not darkness." That seems to be very similar to Paul's premise.

Let's continue now to a bunch of ifs in Paul's counsel to us.

9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, IF indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And IF anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But IF Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. 11 And IF the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.

Again, it is not a given that just because you claim that the Spirit lives within you doesn't mean that's the case.
Note that the use of the " if " can be applied in separating believers from unbelievers.
So how can we know IF the Spirit is living in us?

12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For IF you live according to the flesh, you will die; but IF by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

Paul answers my question by contrasting living by the flesh with living by the Spirit. IF the Spirit is living within you then you will "put to death the misdeeds of the body" and "you will live." You don't get to claim that the Spirit (or Jesus Christ) is living within you while at the same time you are embracing "the misdeeds of the body."

I pray this helps.
Only believers have the promise of the Holy Spirit in them, and so the " if " is referring to those professing to be believers but lying about it as there will be mockers that walk after the flesh, but there can be believers that err, using liberty for occasions for the flesh Only God knows.

As it is, verses 12 & 13 by the use of the " if " is talking about the consequence in how saved believers sow to the flesh or sow to the Spirit. Those who sow to the flesh can die a physical death and at the time of the rapture " if " they are still unrepentant ( 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 )
 
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