Jesus didnt kill himself

granpa

Member
Luke 22:

And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed,

Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.


It was not Jesus will that he die on the cross. He was forced to do so by the Father.

The Father sacrificed the Son. The Son did not sacrifice himself.
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
17 "Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again.
18 "No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father." (Joh 10:17-18 NKJ)
 

Chalcedon

Well-known member
17 "Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again.
18 "No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father." (Joh 10:17-18 NKJ)
Amen it was the plan from before the foundation of the world as the Lamb who was slain. Rev 13:8.
 

granpa

Member
17 "Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again.
18 "No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father." (Joh 10:17-18 NKJ)
that was John 10. The book of John has 21 chapters. I seriously doubt Jesus was talking about the cross at that point
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
that was John 10. The book of John has 21 chapters. I seriously doubt Jesus was talking about the cross at that point
Two chapters later, he did speak of the cross:
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
John 12:33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.
 

Timtofly

Member
8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide Himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
 

Fenuay

Well-known member
I seriously doubt that was about to cross either
The scripture clearly states "signifying what death He should die.". Did Christ dies another death that you know of and the scriptures don't mention?
 

granpa

Member
The scriptures are wrong or there was more than one Jesus or there are many different kinds of deaths that people die.

Take your pick
 

Fenuay

Well-known member
The scriptures are wrong or there was more than one Jesus or there are many different kinds of deaths that people die.

Take your pick
None of those have anything to do with this plain scripture. Jesus didn't die many different kinds of deaths He died ONE. The scriptures are not wrong. There is not more than one Jesus that was sacrificed for mankind. What religion are you?
 
If the Son had not given Himself over to the will of the Father, He could have chosen (as was His prerogative) to refuse to give His life an offering for sin.

Instead, He willingly chose to die a substitutionary death. The Father did not sacrifice His Son - He laid His life down willingly as He said He would. Being co-equal with the Father eliminates Him being forced by the Father to die for man if He chose not to!
 

granpa

Member
If the Son had not given Himself over to the will of the Father, He could have chosen (as was His prerogative) to refuse to give His life an offering for sin.

Instead, He willingly chose to die a substitutionary death. The Father did not sacrifice His Son - He laid His life down willingly as He said He would. Being co-equal with the Father eliminates Him being forced by the Father to die for man if He chose not to!
He did refuse
Luke 22:

And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed,

Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.


It was not Jesus will that he die on the cross. He was forced to do so by the Father.

The Father sacrificed the Son. The Son did not sacrifice himself.
 

granpa

Member
None of those have anything to do with this plain scripture. Jesus didn't die many different kinds of deaths He died ONE. The scriptures are not wrong. There is not more than one Jesus that was sacrificed for mankind. What religion are you?
All 3 are perfectly reasonable explanations
 

granpa

Member
what are you saying? Are you saying that it is impossible to be a Christian and use critical thinking skills at the same time?
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Luke 22:

And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed,

Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.


It was not Jesus will that he die on the cross. He was forced to do so by the Father.

The Father sacrificed the Son. The Son did not sacrifice himself.

I guess you didn't even bother to read your own post.

"nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done."
 

Fenuay

Well-known member
what are you saying? Are you saying that it is impossible to be a Christian and use critical thinking skills at the same time?
I'm saying if you don't believe the Bible and you believe that Scripture was a different Jesus then you are not Christian. You are not using critical thinking skills. You are distorting the Bible. How do you believe you are Christian when you are arguing against the Bible and Christ?
 

granpa

Member
I'm saying if you don't believe the Bible and you believe that Scripture was a different Jesus then you are not Christian. You are not using critical thinking skills. You are distorting the Bible. How do you believe you are Christian when you are arguing against the Bible and Christ?
woof woof woof
 
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