Jesus: egalitarian or elitist?

The Pixie

Well-known member
To be clear, I am talking about what Jesus advocated for this world, not the next.

My understanding is that Jesus stood up for the poor and the oppressed.

"Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God"

I was guessing he stood for equality; all people should be treated equally, regardless of their race, their social class, etc.

However, when I said Jesus believed in a world where all are equal, another poster said:

Jesus believed no such thing. As Steve said, your ignorance of the Bible is astounding.
So I am wondering where in the Bible Jesus explained his elitism. I have to admit I am indeed ignorant of those verses.

I am also curious how US Christians fit Jesus' elitism with "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal..."
 

stiggy wiggy

Well-known member
LOL. So you think Jesus thought the Pharisee equal to the publican? Judas equal to Mary? Most of His parables depict the differences in people.

All are CREATED equal.

And you thought this bit of stupidity worthy of its own new OP?
 
Last edited:

SteveB

Well-known member
To be clear, I am talking about what Jesus advocated for this world, not the next.

My understanding is that Jesus stood up for the poor and the oppressed.

"Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God"

I was guessing he stood for equality; all people should be treated equally, regardless of their race, their social class, etc.

However, when I said Jesus believed in a world where all are equal, another poster said:


So I am wondering where in the Bible Jesus explained his elitism. I have to admit I am indeed ignorant of those verses.

I am also curious how US Christians fit Jesus' elitism with "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal..."
Here's a description of the elitism of Jesus.


Phi 2:5-11 WEB 5 Have this in your mind, which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, existing in the form of God, didn’t consider equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself, becoming obedient to the point of death, yes, the death of the cross. 9 Therefore God also highly exalted him, and gave to him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, those on earth, and those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

He's as elitist as it gets.

So elitist that he set aside his glory and elite life, came to earth and lived a life of the everyman.

He could have chosen an elitist family, which had good genes and be a handsome man.
Instead we read

When we see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

He wasn't entirely attractive, could vanish in a crowd when he turned around and walked away, so he wasn't a tall man.

Nothing to set him apart from anyone else.

His own friends didn't recognize him when he was raised from the dead. He told them- it's me! Do you have any food or drink?

So...
Yeah. He's an elitist alright.
 

The Pixie

Well-known member
Here's a description of the elitism of Jesus.


Phi 2:5-11 WEB 5 Have this in your mind, which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, existing in the form of God, didn’t consider equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself, becoming obedient to the point of death, yes, the death of the cross. 9 Therefore God also highly exalted him, and gave to him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, those on earth, and those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

He's as elitist as it gets.

So elitist that he set aside his glory and elite life, came to earth and lived a life of the everyman.

He could have chosen an elitist family, which had good genes and be a handsome man.
Instead we read

When we see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

He wasn't entirely attractive, could vanish in a crowd when he turned around and walked away, so he wasn't a tall man.

Nothing to set him apart from anyone else.

His own friends didn't recognize him when he was raised from the dead. He told them- it's me! Do you have any food or drink?

So...
Yeah. He's an elitist alright.
Okay, so taking that as sarcasm, I think you actually agree with me that Jesus was an egalitarian. Thanks.
 

The Pixie

Well-known member
LOL. So you think Jesus thought the Pharisee equal to the publican?
So explain the world order Jesus advocated. Who did he say should be the ruling elite? The Pharisees or the publicans? Is there a whole system of caste? Where do Pharisees and the publicans fit into it?

Judas equal to Mary?
I think even egalitarians recognise that criminals are to be punished.

But perhaps you mean Jesus believed in nepotism, and his immediate family should be the ruling elite?

Most of His parables depict the differences in people.
They were set in a world with big difference between the strata of society; slaves, Jews, Roman citizens, etc. I would guess his parables refl;ect the real world, not the society he advocated.

All are CREATED equal.
So now you say egalitarian?

And you thought this bit of stupidity worthy of its own new OP?
Absolutely right your stupidity is worthy of its own thread.

We will see how much you squirm as you duck and dodge around the question in the OP: Where in the Bible does Jesus explain his elitism?

Exactly who does he say should be the ruling elite? Who should form the masses, the workers? What other social castes does Jesus advocate? So come on, stiggy, show this for the stupidity it is.
 

Tiburon

Well-known member
To be clear, I am talking about what Jesus advocated for this world, not the next.

My understanding is that Jesus stood up for the poor and the oppressed.

"Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God"

I was guessing he stood for equality; all people should be treated equally, regardless of their race, their social class, etc.

However, when I said Jesus believed in a world where all are equal, another poster said:


So I am wondering where in the Bible Jesus explained his elitism. I have to admit I am indeed ignorant of those verses.

I am also curious how US Christians fit Jesus' elitism with "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal..."
I love that.
"Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God" Jesus expands his fan base with empty promises.
 

stiggy wiggy

Well-known member
So explain the world order Jesus advocated. Who did he say should be the ruling elite?

He didn't say anything about a ruling elite or a world order. If you'd familiarize yourself with scripture instead of just ignorantly mouthing off about it, you'd know that.

But perhaps you mean Jesus believed in nepotism, and his immediate family should be the ruling elite?

Wrong again. Strike 2!

So now you say egalitarian?

STEEERIKE 3! Take the walk of shame to the dugout and have a seat.


We will see how much you squirm as you duck and dodge around the question in the OP: Where in the Bible does Jesus explain his elitism?

He doesn't since He has none. So much for your moronic prediction of ducking and dodging and squirming, buzz word boy.

Exactly who does he say should be the ruling elite? Who should form the masses, the workers? What other social castes does Jesus advocate?

While you're stupidly asking Jesus' positions on subjects He never mentioned, tell us Marx's position on boxers versus briefs.
 

The Pixie

Well-known member
He didn't say anything about a ruling elite or a world order. If you'd familiarize yourself with scripture instead of just ignorantly mouthing off about it, you'd know that.
I think Jesus was an egalitarian, so I did not think there was anything in there about a ruling elite.

You are the one saying Jesus is an elitist. I am trying to understand what your position is here.

I earlier said:
Where in the Bible does Jesus explain his elitism?
He doesn't since He has none.
And there it is.

Once again stiggy does an about face, and says the opposite of what he first said.

See, stiggy, this thread was worth while. The comment you made on the communism thread was simply not true. This thread has shown that.

The truth is that you agree with me that Jesus, like Marx, advocated egalitarism.
 

stiggy wiggy

Well-known member
You are the one saying Jesus is an elitist.

Then why did you fail so miserably showing me saying that?

Let me make it easier for you, little boy. Fill in the blank:

"Stiggy said that Jesus is an elitist when he said, '___________________________'."


Once again stiggy does an about face, and says the opposite of what he first said..

Let me make it easier for you. Fill in the blanks:

"Stiggy said, '___________________,' and then said the opposite when he said, '____________________'."

You never learn, do you?
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
So I am wondering where in the Bible Jesus explained his elitism. I have to admit I am indeed ignorant of those verses.

I am also curious how US Christians fit Jesus' elitism with "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal..."

I think a strong case can be made that Jesus believed everyone was equally valuable to God and should be treated with respect by others.

There is a place of judgment reserved for God alone for those who disrespect him, but that is never our place to take.
 

The Pixie

Well-known member
Then why did you fail so miserably showing me saying that?
It is right there in the OP. I said Jesus advocated equality for all. You said: "Jesus believed no such thing. As Steve said, your ignorance of the Bible is astounding."

If you were misrepresented in the OP, why do you not say that in your first post on this thread? Clearly because that was before you changed your mind.

The background to this is the discussion on Marx. I said they were similar because both believed everyone is equal, and you said, quite clearly, that I was wrong. "Jesus believed no such thing. As Steve said, your ignorance of the Bible is astounding."

And now you have changed your mind, and want to pretend you did not say it. Now, apparently, you agree with me.

I am not surprised - you do this all the time; it is your shtick. It was so utterly predictable that I started the thread to highlight it.
 

The Pixie

Well-known member
I think a strong case can be made that Jesus believed everyone was equally valuable to God and should be treated with respect by others.

There is a place of judgment reserved for God alone for those who disrespect him, but that is never our place to take.
I know. It was never really in any doubt.

stiggy said something that was clearly not true, but happened to be convenient to him in our discussion on Marx, and I was really just calling him out on it.
 

stiggy wiggy

Well-known member
It is right there in the OP. I said Jesus advocated equality for all. You said: "Jesus believed no such thing. As Steve said, your ignorance of the Bible is astounding."

Correct. But you forgot your screwup and your new task. Here it is again for you to dodge:

Fill in the blank:

"Stiggy said that Jesus is an elitist when he said, '___________________________'."


If you were misrepresented in the OP, why do you not say that in your first post on this thread? Clearly because that was before you changed your mind.

Fill in these blanks:

"Stiggy said, '__________________________,' and then changed his mind by saying, '___________________'."

You're just getting your butt handed to you all kinds of ways, aren't ya, small man?

The background to this is the discussion on Marx. I said they were similar because both believed everyone is equal, and you said, quite clearly, that I was wrong. "Jesus believed no such thing. As Steve said, your ignorance of the Bible is astounding."

Correct.


And now you have changed your mind, and want to pretend you did not say it.

Where did I say I did not say it? In fact, I'll say it again:

Jesus believed no such thing. As Steve said, your ignorance of the Bible is astounding.

More and more egg is piling up on that face of yours. Both of them.
 

The Pixie

Well-known member
And yet you fumblingly, bumblingly can't produce where I allegedly did.
And yet it is right there in the OP.

The fact is, you stated clearly that Jesus does not believe in equality for all, and now you have changed you mind, and want to pretend you did not.

It is not egg on my face. It is not me who is being two faced either. That would be you in both cases.

Don't worry about it, stiggy. No one expects you to keep your story straight from one day to the next.
 

stiggy wiggy

Well-known member
And yet it is right there in the OP.

The fact is, you stated clearly that Jesus does not believe in equality for all, and now you have changed you mind, and want to pretend you did not



Fill in the blank:

"Stiggy said that Jesus does not believe in equality for all, when he said, '___________________________'."


The Pixie said:
If you were misrepresented in the OP, why do you not say that in your first post on this thread? Clearly because that was before you changed your mind.

Fill in these blanks:

"Stiggy said, '__________________________,' and then changed his mind by saying, '___________________'."


We all know why you're ducking, dodging and squirming from your task. You're lying about what I said and have been caught with your pants draped around your shoes, little man.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Okay, so taking that as sarcasm, I think you actually agree with me that Jesus was an egalitarian. Thanks.
Another classic case of confirmation bias.

How do you guys do this so easily! Is this just a case of intellectual laziness or cowardice?
 
Top