Jesus expected His follows to be keeping the Sabbath until He returned

[Him]

In Matt 24:20-31 Jesus speaks of the Sabbath being kept BY HIS FOLLOWS (US) through the destruction of the Temple in 70AD up to His Second coming. VERSES 23 THROUGH 31 TALK OF THIS. AND VERSE 20'S WARNING THAT our FLIGHT DUE TO THE PERSECUTION PRIOR NOT BE IN THE WINTER NOR OR THE SABBATH DAY IS CONNECTED TO THIS.
How do we know? By His use of the words For, And, Then, For, Behold, Wherefore, and For in all the verses leading up to it. All of which connect what is about to be said to what was previously said.

Are the Apostles around today to experience the tribulation and see the second coming of our Lord? Have the elect been gathered together?

No, so this warning to pray that our flight not be in the winter nor Sabbath Day IS FOR US ALSO or those who will be blessed to see that glorious day. His second coming.

Matt 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Matt 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Matt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Matt 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Matt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Matt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matt 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other

 

[Stephen]

Matt 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

This passage is recorded in three places (Matthew 24:15-22, Luke 21:20-24, and Mark 13:14-20). Studying the differences and similarities can reveal a lot more about what Christ's intent was with this prophecy. I don't think his intent was to impose a sabbath onto Christians. (I'm not saying a sabbath isn't a good idea, I'm just saying Christ isn't imposing it here).

In this case Matthew is the only one that speaks of the Sabbath, while Luke and Mark omit the detail. Matthew is also the only one to note that this is a covenant curse fulfillment, in verse 28 Christ says "Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather". He's drawing this from the Jewish specific covenant curses for disobedience (Deut 28:26 and Deut 28:49).

As Peter notes in Acts 2:17-21, that generation was living in the time period when verse 29 would be fulfilled (i.e. "the sun will be darkened. . . the powers of heaven will be shaken.") which would fulfill Joel 2:28-32.

As you note, Christ is speaking of the destruction of the temple, and the steps are clearly laid out by Christ and history confirms his accuracy. However, the flight occurred at a specific period of history (AD 68-70) from a specific place (Jerusalem and Judea). Christians aren't fleeing Jerusalem, and don't have to worry that their flight be not in winter and neither on the sabbath. As I see it, Christians are sitting on the semicolon at the end of verse 29 waiting for the end of the trampling of Jerusalem and the times of the Gentiles to be fulfilled (see Luke 21:24).

Getting into verse 30, we see another Jewish specific detail (i.e. "all the tribes of the earth will mourn"). Luke and Mark omit this. This is a reference to the prophecy in Zechariah about Israel mourning for the pierced one as they did for Josiah (see Zech 12:10-14). The Zechariah prophecy only applies to Israel, the tribes will be mourning, the nations on the other hand will be going to war.

I suggest that Matthew's record of the event is geared towards a Jewish specific audience with a lot of Old Testament references that are lost on Gentiles (see also the Matthew specific flood reference in verse 37-40). The Jews would be concerned with the sabbath as the law had not yet rolled up and blown away (Heb 8:13), however Mark's audience and Luke's audience were not to be concerned with these things.

 

[Gary Mac]

In Matt 24:20-31 Jesus speaks of the Sabbath being kept BY HIS FOLLOWS (US) through the destruction of the Temple in 70AD up to His Second coming. VERSES 23 THROUGH 31 TALK OF THIS. AND VERSE 20'S WARNING THAT our FLIGHT DUE TO THE PERSECUTION PRIOR NOT BE IN THE WINTER NOR OR THE SABBATH DAY IS CONNECTED TO THIS.
How do we know? By His use of the words For, And, Then, For, Behold, Wherefore, and For in all the verses leading up to it. All of which connect what is about to be said to what was previously said.

Are the Apostles around today to experience the tribulation and see the second coming of our Lord? Have the elect been gathered together?

No, so this warning to pray that our flight not be in the winter nor Sabbath Day IS FOR US ALSO or those who will be blessed to see that glorious day. His second coming.

Matt 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Matt 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Matt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Matt 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Matt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Matt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matt 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other

Everyone who has from God that what Jesus had from Him Keep the sabbath holy. It is our day of from all our works that God commands of us.

Most work for God one day a week and even in that they only do it about half a day. As for me and as for Jesus we work 6 days a week doing the will of God and take one day off for ourselves but he kept his day off holy as well. I Luke to go fishing or golf, or what ever it is that I enjoy, but if one is of God as Jesus was of God our sabbath is holy naturally.

Religious minds see a sabbath as going to some religious organization, sing three songs, say a prayer, preach 52 life changing message a year, pray a repetitious prayer, have an alter call, sing a song then go eat. Taking off six days a week from doing Gods work and working for Him only one one day a week where they can gather pat each other on the back and call each other brother or sister. .

Most dont have a clue what the sabbath is. Even God took one day off from His work. All they see from religious minds is sitting in that pew that will get them into heaven.

Jesus and his disciples was accused of breaking the sabbath for the same reason some of you will accuse me of.

 

[YeshuaFan]

In Matt 24:20-31 Jesus speaks of the Sabbath being kept BY HIS FOLLOWS (US) through the destruction of the Temple in 70AD up to His Second coming. VERSES 23 THROUGH 31 TALK OF THIS. AND VERSE 20'S WARNING THAT our FLIGHT DUE TO THE PERSECUTION PRIOR NOT BE IN THE WINTER NOR OR THE SABBATH DAY IS CONNECTED TO THIS.
How do we know? By His use of the words For, And, Then, For, Behold, Wherefore, and For in all the verses leading up to it. All of which connect what is about to be said to what was previously said.

Are the Apostles around today to experience the tribulation and see the second coming of our Lord? Have the elect been gathered together?

No, so this warning to pray that our flight not be in the winter nor Sabbath Day IS FOR US ALSO or those who will be blessed to see that glorious day. His second coming.

Matt 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Matt 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Matt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Matt 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Matt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Matt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matt 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other

Speaking to national israel of the last days!

 

[YeshuaFan]

Everyone who has from God that what Jesus had from Him Keep the sabbath holy. It is our day of from all our works that God commands of us.

Most work for God one day a week and even in that they only do it about half a day. As for me and as for Jesus we work 6 days a week doing the will of God and take one day off for ourselves but he kept his day off holy as well. I Luke to go fishing or golf, or what ever it is that I enjoy, but if one is of God as Jesus was of God our sabbath is holy naturally.

Religious minds see a sabbath as going to some religious organization, sing three songs, say a prayer, preach 52 life changing message a year, pray a repetitious prayer, have an alter call, sing a song then go eat. Taking off six days a week from doing Gods work and working for Him only one one day a week where they can gather pat each other on the back and call each other brother or sister. .

Most dont have a clue what the sabbath is. Even God took one day off from His work. All they see from religious minds is sitting in that pew that will get them into heaven.

Jesus and his disciples was accused of breaking the sabbath for the same reason some of you will accuse me of.

sabbath never was kept until Yahweh gave it to the nation of Israel under the Mosaic law as the sign of their Covenant with God!

 

[Gary Mac]

sabbath never was kept until Yahweh gave it to the nation of Israel under the Mosaic law as the sign of their Covenant with God!

God never has changed, same Spirit in Adam that He was in Abraham, Moses, Jesus 120 and all today who has received God as their own mind. It is man that changes the laws for a god adding rules and regulations for a belief instead of God actually manifest in them as He did in these we read of. . Even God took a day off for Himself.

 

[Gary Mac]

Speaking to national israel of the last days!

My God and the God Jesus obeyed and became like speaks to all the same, sadly few who will listen to Him.

 

[YeshuaFan]

My God and the God Jesus obeyed and became like speaks to all the same, sadly few who will listen to Him.

Jesus is God

 

[Gary Mac]

Jesus is God

Jesus is your god but the same God Jesus obeyed and prayed to and sent him to show us what it is to be of God, Gods example for us to follow and be like, is Spirit and is my God for He manifested Himself in me Just as He did in Jesus in Matt 3:16. Jesus didn't know Him either until He reveals Himself in Jesus. You can read how Jesus God did come to him. Jesus referred to this incarnation as born again.


A lot of you guys worship a man as a god instead to the One Jesus did and said he could do noting at all without His God who sent him.

 

[En Hakkore]

In Matt 24:20-31 Jesus speaks of the Sabbath being kept BY HIS FOLLOWS (US) through the destruction of the Temple in 70AD up to His Second coming. VERSES 23 THROUGH 31 TALK OF THIS. AND VERSE 20'S WARNING THAT our FLIGHT DUE TO THE PERSECUTION PRIOR NOT BE IN THE WINTER NOR OR THE SABBATH DAY IS CONNECTED TO THIS.
How do we know? By His use of the words For, And, Then, For, Behold, Wherefore, and For in all the verses leading up to it. All of which connect what is about to be said to what was previously said.

Are the Apostles around today to experience the tribulation and see the second coming of our Lord? Have the elect been gathered together?

No, so this warning to pray that our flight not be in the winter nor Sabbath Day IS FOR US ALSO or those who will be blessed to see that glorious day. His second coming.

While your first respondent and I disagree on the interrelation of the gospels to each other and to early traditions about Jesus, we agree (1) that the absence of "or on a Sabbath" in the parallel text of Mark is a significant datum, and (2) that both texts, as well as Luke's parallel section, concern the siege of Jerusalem and destruction of the temple in 70 CE.

With respect to the first point, "or on a Sabbath" is Matthew's addition to Mark, who was one of his literary sources:

Pray that it may not be in winter. (Mark 13:18)

Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. (Matt 24:20)

Matthew is writing for and from the perspective of a law-observant Christian community... the matter of potentially having to flee on a particular day (ie. the Sabbath) when travel is restricted is naturally a concern for him --- the same cannot be said for Mark, who is writing for and from the perspective of a Gentile Christian community for whom observance of the law is irrelevant. One could, of course, reverse the polarity of the difference by suggesting Mark used Matthew as a source and omitted this irrelevant bit... arguments for Markan posteriority, however, are generally weak and I do not recommend pursuing that angle as a potential solution to the so-called 'Synoptic Problem'. Luke, it should be noted, has no parallel whatsoever for this sentence, arguably because he wants to protect Jesus from any charge of being ignorant about when the siege of Jerusalem would take place, which was in the spring and summer of 70 CE rather than during winter... this implies, of course, that Luke knows when it did occur and is writing retrospectively (ie. post-70 CE).

This takes us to the second point, which is that the context for the imperative to pray is the siege of Jerusalem and subsequent destruction of the temple. All three of these gospels agree that Jesus' discourse is precipitated by the disciples privately (Mark and Matthew) or those gathered at the temple publicly (Luke) asking him for further clarification about his prediction that the stones of the temple would be thrown down (Matt 24:1-3; Mark 13:1-4; Luke 21:5-7). The flight made explicit by Matthew is that of 24:16, which is to be in response to seeing the Romans' seizure of the temple (24:15; cf. Mark 13:14)... his comments concerning the Sabbath cannot be indiscriminately applied beyond the event being referred to --- the author may very well envision such within an ongoing law-observant form of Christianity, but the dominant tradition for the past two millennia has been that followers of Jesus are free from such concerns --- they can follow the law if they want to, but they are not compelled to.

Luke's version is both more explicit than the other two gospels about the siege context and different with respect to the timing of the flight... it is to take place when armies have surrounded Jerusalem, at a time when fleeing from the city itself might still be possible:

When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. Then those in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those inside the city must leave it, and those out in the country must not enter it; for these are days of vengeance, as a fulfillment of all that is written. (Luke 21:20-22)

It is here that Luke places, in parallel to Matthew and Mark, the woe to those who are pregnant or nursing infants in those days (21:23a; cf. Matt 24:19; Mark 13:17), skips over the troubling comment concerning winter (or Sabbath, which was as irrelevant for his Gentile community as it was for Mark's) and continues on:

For there will be great distress on the earth and wrath against this people; they will fall by the edge of the sword and be taken away as captives among all nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. (Luke 21:23b-24)

Luke introduces an indeterminate "times of the Gentiles" to account for the delay of Jesus' return in the wake of the temple's destruction, which had been the expectation of Mark and Matthew (cf. Matt 24:19; Mark 13:24). Whatever the historical kernel is in Jesus' apocalyptic discourse, Luke's overall interpretation has been vindicated since Christians are still here, nearly two thousand years later, waiting... while other warnings and encouragement may apply for the contemporary believer -- for example, Matt 24:44; Mark 13:33; Luke 21:28, 34-36 -- the imperative to pray concerning the timing of Jerusalem's fall to the Romans (ie. that it might not occur on the Sabbath) is not among them as that event is in the distant past.

Hope this helps...

Kind regards,
Jonathan

 

[Gary Mac]

For over 2000 years people have been looking for a man to come as a god. Fact is the One they really should be seeking is at their door this day knocking. All this about times and days and weeks and years are products of mans religious minds. For if one will open that door to the One who is at it knocking this day He will come to you and sup with you and be in you.

Rev 3:20. “Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come IN TO him, and will sup with him, and he with me.”

These who refuse to let Him in them and seek another to come as a god will never know the God Who came to that man Jesus and will come to all who will receive Him. He did in Jesus in Matt 3:16, He did in Adam who came to him and opened His knowledge in Adam, Gen 3:22 and became like Him. Abraham received the same from God, Moses received the same from God, Mary received the same, Jesus received the same Matt 3:16, 120 received the same in an upper room, and so did I. He in me and I inHim are one, see Jesus prayer to the One who does come as He came to Jesus and the rest of these no different at all.


20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

People just dont believe Him that He will for whatever reason, but I know the reason and so does the Father. They cant relate to where Jesus was in the Father that they may be where he was in the Father. But He will come to all who will and be in that same state of mind Jesus was in, in the Father.

People say they follow the way of Christ yet deny the One who does come and anoints them with His same mind, or Spirit as it is called, to walk as He does and perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect just as Jesus was perfected in Him.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Jesus is your god but the same God Jesus obeyed and prayed to and sent him to show us what it is to be of God, Gods example for us to follow and be like, is Spirit and is my God for He manifested Himself in me Just as He did in Jesus in Matt 3:16. Jesus didn't know Him either until He reveals Himself in Jesus. You can read how Jesus God did come to him. Jesus referred to this incarnation as born again.


A lot of you guys worship a man as a god instead to the One Jesus did and said he could do noting at all without His God who sent him.

Jesus is God becoming human

 

[Gary Mac]

Jesus is God becoming human

Your god is, but the God Jesus prayed to and obeyed, and worshiped and said he could do noting without his God, is Spirit and sent Jesus to introduce you to his God.

This Spirit God who came to that man Jesus in Matt 3:16 and opens up Who He is is Spirit. You can read it in Matt 3:16. And is the One that you do not know from lack in having the same from Him as Jesus received in himself. The One you reject in favor of a god of flesh and the reason you do. not know the One of Spirit Jesus knew.

BTW, God always has been Spirit, always Be Spirit. He is the same Spirit then as today and will be the same tomorrow. Through your own will to create your own gods of flesh that you can relate by flesh and not by Spirit, you miss this One Who is a Spirit that Jesus received. Try reading how the One of Spirit came and opened up Who He is and His heaven to Jesus. Matt3:16, and did the same in Abraham, Moses, 120, and even Adam was the first to receive from God His Spirit and became like Him as all these others received from Him. Gen 3:22.

There is One that you do not know.

 

[Him]

While your first respondent and I disagree on the interrelation of the gospels to each other and to early traditions about Jesus, we agree (1) that the absence of "or on a Sabbath" in the parallel text of Mark is a significant datum, and (2) that both texts, as well as Luke's parallel section, concern the siege of Jerusalem and destruction of the temple in 70 CE.

With respect to the first point, "or on a Sabbath" is Matthew's addition to Mark, who was one of his literary sources:

Pray that it may not be in winter. (Mark 13:18)

Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. (Matt 24:20)

Matthew is writing for and from the perspective of a law-observant Christian community... the matter of potentially having to flee on a particular day (ie. the Sabbath) when travel is restricted is naturally a concern for him --- the same cannot be said for Mark, who is writing for and from the perspective of a Gentile Christian community for whom observance of the law is irrelevant. One could, of course, reverse the polarity of the difference by suggesting Mark used Matthew as a source and omitted this irrelevant bit... arguments for Markan posteriority, however, are generally weak and I do not recommend pursuing that angle as a potential solution to the so-called 'Synoptic Problem'. Luke, it should be noted, has no parallel whatsoever for this sentence, arguably because he wants to protect Jesus from any charge of being ignorant about when the siege of Jerusalem would take place, which was in the spring and summer of 70 CE rather than during winter... this implies, of course, that Luke knows when it did occur and is writing retrospectively (ie. post-70 CE).

This takes us to the second point, which is that the context for the imperative to pray is the siege of Jerusalem and subsequent destruction of the temple. All three of these gospels agree that Jesus' discourse is precipitated by the disciples privately (Mark and Matthew) or those gathered at the temple publicly (Luke) asking him for further clarification about his prediction that the stones of the temple would be thrown down (Matt 24:1-3; Mark 13:1-4; Luke 21:5-7). The flight made explicit by Matthew is that of 24:16, which is to be in response to seeing the Romans' seizure of the temple (24:15; cf. Mark 13:14)... his comments concerning the Sabbath cannot be indiscriminately applied beyond the event being referred to --- the author may very well envision such within an ongoing law-observant form of Christianity, but the dominant tradition for the past two millennia has been that followers of Jesus are free from such concerns --- they can follow the law if they want to, but they are not compelled to.

Luke's version is both more explicit than the other two gospels about the siege context and different with respect to the timing of the flight... it is to take place when armies have surrounded Jerusalem, at a time when fleeing from the city itself might still be possible:

When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. Then those in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those inside the city must leave it, and those out in the country must not enter it; for these are days of vengeance, as a fulfillment of all that is written. (Luke 21:20-22)

It is here that Luke places, in parallel to Matthew and Mark, the woe to those who are pregnant or nursing infants in those days (21:23a; cf. Matt 24:19; Mark 13:17), skips over the troubling comment concerning winter (or Sabbath, which was as irrelevant for his Gentile community as it was for Mark's) and continues on:

For there will be great distress on the earth and wrath against this people; they will fall by the edge of the sword and be taken away as captives among all nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. (Luke 21:23b-24)

Luke introduces an indeterminate "times of the Gentiles" to account for the delay of Jesus' return in the wake of the temple's destruction, which had been the expectation of Mark and Matthew (cf. Matt 24:19; Mark 13:24). Whatever the historical kernel is in Jesus' apocalyptic discourse, Luke's overall interpretation has been vindicated since Christians are still here, nearly two thousand years later, waiting... while other warnings and encouragement may apply for the contemporary believer -- for example, Matt 24:44; Mark 13:33; Luke 21:28, 34-36 -- the imperative to pray concerning the timing of Jerusalem's fall to the Romans (ie. that it might not occur on the Sabbath) is not among them as that event is in the distant past.

Hope this helps...

Kind regards,
Jonathan

No. Your post fails to address the point of the OP. And that is the fact that Jesus said those words in Matthews hearing. And when Jesus said, pray that your flight not be in the winter nor on the Sabbath day he said this in context to the the destruction of the temple and also in respect to the tribulation prior to His second coming as the OP brings out.

 

[En Hakkore]

No. Your post fails to address the point of the OP.

Actually I did address it... a matter to which I will return below.

And that is the fact that Jesus said those words in Matthews hearing.

We disagree on both parts of your supposed "fact" --- (1) we do not have in the gospel you quote (or any other, for that matter) the ipsissima verba of Jesus, and (2) the gospel is not and does not claim to be an eyewitness account by a disciple of Jesus named Matthew.

And when Jesus said, pray that your flight not be in the winter nor on the Sabbath day he said this in context to the the destruction of the temple and also in respect to the tribulation prior to His second coming as the OP brings out.

The key claim here is "and also in respect to the tribulation prior to His second coming" --- if all you had was (the gospel attributed to) Matthew, you might have a case. As I noted previously, this author anticipated Jesus' return in the wake of the temple's destruction... I cited verse 29 (there is a typo in my earlier response at this point that reads 24:19), wherein the author connected the suffering that ensues once the temple is desolated with the coming of the 'Son of Man':

Immediately after the suffering of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see 'the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven' with power and great glory. (Matt 24:29-31)

The problem is that you've built your argument exclusively on the Matthean version, which in light of the past two thousand years of human history, has been shown to have erred in connecting the destruction of the temple with the anticipated return of Jesus. By ignoring parallels to the discourse in Mark and, particularly, Luke --- neither of these texts have reference to the Sabbath --- you have offered a tendentious case for perpetual Sabbath-observance among Christians. Luke, as I previously pointed out, inserts an indeterminate 'times of the Gentles' between the temple's destruction and the 'second coming'. By looking at both the gospel traditions and Christian praxis holistically, as well as understanding that the community behind the Matthean gospel was a minority law-observant one, the exegete should recognize the Sabbath comment as limited both in time (70 CE) and context (a community of law-observant Christians).

I have here simply restated the critique I previously offered, highlighting and elaborating slightly on aspects you seem to have overlooked... contrary to your accusation above, I did address the point of the OP, which obviously I don't agree with and therefore undercut it in the ways summarized above.

Kind regards,
Jonathan

 

[CrowCross]

In Matt 24:20-31 Jesus speaks of the Sabbath being kept BY HIS FOLLOWS (US) through the destruction of the Temple in 70AD up to His Second coming. VERSES 23 THROUGH 31 TALK OF THIS. AND VERSE 20'S WARNING THAT our FLIGHT DUE TO THE PERSECUTION PRIOR NOT BE IN THE WINTER NOR OR THE SABBATH DAY IS CONNECTED TO THIS.
How do we know? By His use of the words For, And, Then, For, Behold, Wherefore, and For in all the verses leading up to it. All of which connect what is about to be said to what was previously said.

Are the Apostles around today to experience the tribulation and see the second coming of our Lord? Have the elect been gathered together?

No, so this warning to pray that our flight not be in the winter nor Sabbath Day IS FOR US ALSO or those who will be blessed to see that glorious day. His second coming.

Matt 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Matt 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Matt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Matt 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Matt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Matt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matt 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other

This is still future.

Just for the record Sabbath "day" is not in the original. It only says Sabbath....That changes how the verse should be interpreted. Not much, but it changes it.

Even today "religious" Jews don't travel on a Sabbath...from what I've read their limit was only 2 miles.
Considering the Jews who do not believe in Christ Jesus to this day feel it a moral obligation not to travel on the Sabbath, Jesus seems to be telling them their "legalistic" belief on Sabbath travel won't remove them far enough away from the danger.

 

[Him]

This is still future.

Just for the record Sabbath "day" is not in the original. It only says Sabbath....That changes how the verse should be interpreted. Not much, but it changes it.

Even today "religious" Jews don't travel on a Sabbath...from what I've read their limit was only 2 miles.
Considering the Jews who do not believe in Christ Jesus to this day feel it a moral obligation not to travel on the Sabbath, Jesus seems to be telling them their "legalistic" belief on Sabbath travel won't remove them far enough away from the danger.

In the Greek Sabbath it is singular. Matthew uses it 2 times. The text in question, and verse 12:2
And in verse 28:1 it is plural
Keep in mind in verse 28:1 thee definite article is not used there either in the Greek.
And what of Luke 6:1,6 no definite article there either.
And what of John 7:22,23?

Acts 13:14?

One also needs to keep in mind who Jesus is speaking to. He is speaking to His Apostles. This who would be founding, teaching His church through Him to observe all things whatsoever He commanded them. Matt 28:20

A church which would be around for quit some after all of them are gone.

 

[Gary Mac]

Actually I did address it... a matter to which I will return below.


We disagree on both parts of your supposed "fact" --- (1) we do not have in the gospel you quote (or any other, for that matter) the ipsissima verba of Jesus, and (2) the gospel is not and does not claim to be an eyewitness account by a disciple of Jesus named Matthew.


The key claim here is "and also in respect to the tribulation prior to His second coming" --- if all you had was (the gospel attributed to) Matthew, you might have a case. As I noted previously, this author anticipated Jesus' return in the wake of the temple's destruction... I cited verse 29 (there is a typo in my earlier response at this point that reads 24:19), wherein the author connected the suffering that ensues once the temple is desolated with the coming of the 'Son of Man':

Immediately after the suffering of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see 'the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven' with power and great glory. (Matt 24:29-31)

The problem is that you've built your argument exclusively on the Matthean version, which in light of the past two thousand years of human history, has been shown to have erred in connecting the destruction of the temple with the anticipated return of Jesus. By ignoring parallels to the discourse in Mark and, particularly, Luke --- neither of these texts have reference to the Sabbath --- you have offered a tendentious case for perpetual Sabbath-observance among Christians. Luke, as I previously pointed out, inserts an indeterminate 'times of the Gentles' between the temple's destruction and the 'second coming'. By looking at both the gospel traditions and Christian praxis holistically, as well as understanding that the community behind the Matthean gospel was a minority law-observant one, the exegete should recognize the Sabbath comment as limited both in time (70 CE) and context (a community of law-observant Christians).

I have here simply restated the critique I previously offered, highlighting and elaborating slightly on aspects you seem to have overlooked... contrary to your accusation above, I did address the point of the OP, which obviously I don't agree with and therefore undercut it in the ways summarized above.

Kind regards,
Jonathan

If one sees with a mind that is of Spirit as Jesus saw of God from His Spirit be in him and his own Spirit, one will see we are the temple of God, the place He resides.

For those who only see a temple that is of brick and stone adorned with votive gifts, there is no way they can relate to the temple of God, His abode, His heaven, the place God resides, for man really is the temple pf God.

Jesus was exactly clear in Luke 17:20-21, the kingdom fo God doesnt come with observation, it is within you.

Sadly as with these who are waiting for God to come as a man live in that old temple made of stone and brick. And as long as that old temple stands, there is no way that new one os Spirit that we are can arise.

 

[Gary Mac]

This is still future.

Just for the record Sabbath "day" is not in the original. It only says Sabbath....That changes how the verse should be interpreted. Not much, but it changes it.

Even today "religious" Jews don't travel on a Sabbath...from what I've read their limit was only 2 miles.
Considering the Jews who do not believe in Christ Jesus to this day feel it a moral obligation not to travel on the Sabbath, Jesus seems to be telling them their "legalistic" belief on Sabbath travel won't remove them far enough away from the danger.

It is only future for those who has not met God that He manifests Himself in you this day.

 

[CrowCross]

It is only future for those who has not met God that He manifests Himself in you this day.

yeah, whatever.