Jesus is found in Zechariah 12

imJRR

Active member
101G and Roger Thornbill - A question: Could you each please explain how and where your postings and discussion relates to comparing the beliefs and teachings of the JWs to that of Christian beliefs and teachings?

What belief and/or teaching of the JWs do your posts address?
 

Roger Thornhill

Well-known member
101G and Roger Thornbill - A question: Could you each please explain how and where your postings and discussion relates to comparing the beliefs and teachings of the JWs to that of Christian beliefs and teachings?

What belief and/or teaching of the JWs do your posts address?
My post refutes the conclusion of the OP.
 

imJRR

Active member
The Bible says Paradise is in the third heaven or where God dwells:



1st Heaven is Rakia to a Jew it is the atmospheric heaven found in Jer 8:7, 10:13

Isa 55:10. it is were the birds fly clouds, made on 2nd day



2nd heaven shamayim to a Jew it is the starry heaven found in Jer 44:17,25; Psalm 8:3



3rd heaven shemi Hashamayim it is the heaven where God dwells found in 1 Kings 8:27, Deut. 26:15, 2 Chron 6:33 Eccl. 5:2



This passage below says Paradise is in the third heaven



2 Corth 12:

1 It is doubtless not profitable for me to boast. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord: 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I know such a man—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows—4 how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Rev 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate. 7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Revelation 22
1: And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb.
In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

REV 22: 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.



The First Heaven: Earth Atmosphere Rakia to a Jew


“The fountains of the deep and the windows of heaven were also stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained.” (Genesis 8:2)

“Then the LORD's anger will burn against you, and he will shut the heavens so that it will not rain and the ground will yield no produce....”(Deuteronomy 11:17)

“The LORD will open the heavens, the storehouse of his bounty, to send rain on your land in season and to bless all the work of your hands.” (Deuteronomy 28:12)

"O LORD, when you went out from Seir, when you marched from the land of Edom, the earth shook, the heavens poured, the clouds poured down water.” (Judges 5:4)

“When the heavens are shut up and there is no rain because they have sinned against you …” (1 Kings 8:35)

"Yet he has not left himself without testimony: He has shown kindness by giving you rain from heaven and crops in their seasons...” (Acts 14:17)


The Second Heaven: Outer Space shamayim to a Jew

“Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.” (Genesis 15:5)

“In the heavens he has pitched a tent for the sun... It rises at one end of the heavens and makes its circuit to the other...” (Psalm 19:4, 6)

“They will be exposed to the sun and the moon and all the stars of the heavens which they have loved and served....” (Jeremiah 8:2)

“The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light.” (Isaiah 13:10)


The Third Heaven: God's Dwelling Place shemi Hashamayim to a Jew


“To the LORD your God belong the heavens, even the highest heavens, the earth and everything in it.” (Deuteronomy 10:14)

“… and their prayer came up to His holy dwelling place, to heaven.” (2 Chronicles 30:27)

"But will God really dwell on earth? The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you.” (1 Kings 8:27)

(phrase repeated numerous times in following verses) “then hear from heaven, your dwelling place...” (1 Kings 8:30)

“The One enthroned in heaven laughs; The LORD scoffs at them.” (Psalm 2:4)

“Unto you I lift up my eyes, O You who dwell in the heavens.” (Psalm 123:1)

“In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.” (Matthew 5:16)

And I might add, he beginning of the Lord's prayer, "Our Father, Who art IN HEAVEN..."


the word “Paradise” (Gk. paradeisos) clearly means “heaven.” In 2 Cor. 12:4 it is the place to which Paul was caught up in his revelation of heaven, and in Rev. 2:7 it is the place where we find the tree of life—which is clearly heaven in Rev. 22:2, 14.

Grudem, Wayne A.. Bible Doctrine (p. 258). Zondervan Academic. Kindle Edition.

Repeating Request:

Clarification Request: Could you please explain how this post and your original post relate to JW belief and teaching?

What JW beliefs and teachings does what you've written in the two posts address? It would be helpful if this was clearly spelled out. Please try to be specific in answering. Thank you.
 

The Prophet

Active member
Repeating Request:

Clarification Request: Could you please explain how this post and your original post relate to JW belief and teaching?

What JW beliefs and teachings does what you've written in the two posts address? It would be helpful if this was clearly spelled out. Please try to be specific in answering. Thank you.
Where do you think JWs teach Paradise is?
 

101G

Well-known member
101G and Roger Thornbill - A question: Could you each please explain how and where your postings and discussion relates to comparing the beliefs and teachings of the JWs to that of Christian beliefs and teachings?

What belief and/or teaching of the JWs do your posts address?
I'm sorry that I did not see this post before. been a little busy in other forums. but my POSTING, clearly states there is ONE GOD who is JESUS in the ECHAD of himself as the Ordinal First, and the Ordinal Last, which is the plurality of God as "LORD" as in Zechariah 12:10 who came in flesh as a man that was pierced.

first, the topic here is dlear, the Lord Jesus is the One God who many call God, LORD, or the Father, or as the JW say, "Jehovah". well two scriptures,
#1. there is only one creator and maker .... right. Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

here the LORD, all caps is the "MAKER OF ALL THINGS" the one whom the JW say is "Jehovah". well this, John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

remember in Isaiah 44:24 states, the "HIM" was ALONE and BY HIMSELF. so either the LORD all caps as in Zechariah 12:10 is the same one God, who is Lord, of John 1:3 who, "MADE ALL THINGS", or else one has tow CREATORS who made all things.

#2. as a JW, this is prove out in their own NWT, bible. Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:".

he? ... sent it by his angel to John.... well the angel tells us who sent him, Revelation 22:6 "And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done."

the JW bible states, it was "JEHOVAH" the Lord God of the holy prophets who sent the angel.

well the JW own bible tell you by name who is the one who sent "his" angel. listen, the same chapter, Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

so the JW bible states their Jehovah is JESUS, read it for yourself.

PICJAG, 101g.
 
Top