Jesus IS God - The evidence

ferengi

Well-known member
The One who comes is the same One who came to Jesius in Matt 3:16 for it is He who will come and open all of His heaven to you and said would come and sup with you and be in you. Same One who came to Adam where he became like Him to know this difference, same One who came to Abraham, same One who came to Moses, same One who came to Mary, same One who came to jesus, same One who came to 120 in an upper room and is the same One who will come to you but becuase you seek another -- the One who came to all of these is the one you are missing this day to come. .
Unsupported assertions - Who is Jesus father? What about the spirit?
 
Another irrefutable fact that substantiates Jesus’ deity is found in the books of Isaiah and Revelation concerning the title, “the First and the Last.” In the Old Testament book of Isaiah, the title “the First and the Last” strictly refers to Jehovah God, the LORD, who declares that, apart from Him, there is no God. In the New Testament book of Revelation, “the First and the Last” spoke to John while John was exiled on the island of Patmos. His exact words to John were, “I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, Amen” (Revelation 1:17-18). This statement is a direct reference to Jesus Christ, who died for the sins of the world and was raised to life again. Therefore, “the First and the Last” of the Old Testament is specifically identified as Jesus Christ in the New Testament.

The verses you quote would prove that Jesus IS THE PERSON Jehovah God, the LORD.

Whereas you seem to believe Jesus is ONE OF THE THREE "MEMBERS" of Jehovah God, the LORD.

Just to clarify...

Genesis 1:31 ESV... And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.

1 Timothy 3:16 ESV... Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

I believe "he" (personal pronoun) in Genesis 1:31 refers to the same person as "he" (personal pronoun) in 1 Timothy 3:16.

What do you believe?

P.S.

Here is an overview of what I believe...

For this creation, YHWH God (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans (living souls) for his glory where he would reign as a living soul himself. The Scriptures describe how God would accomplish his plan. In an instant, transcendent God (called God the Father) created the supernatural and space-time of this universe and also became immanent as a spirit (called the Spirit of God) and in the form of a living soul (called the Word of God) with a glorious body. God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Word of God. But whereas God created a human spirit and soul for each of us, God himself as the Word became the human spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Unsupported assertions
Unsupported assertions? Matt 3:16 is unsupported? Gods SPirit coming to Abraham, Moses, Adam Mary, 120 is unsupported? The onlt=y thng unsupported is from lack in Him coming to you the same.
- Who is Jesus father?
GOD
What about Spirit
What about it? God is a Spirit and that SPirit is Love, and man is the temple of God. The place God resides. And I know you will say this is unsupported but Jesus was spot on when he said The kingdom of God doesnt come with observation it is withn you. Luke 17:20-21. You havent met God have you?
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
The verses you quote would prove that Jesus IS THE PERSON Jehovah God, the LORD.

Whereas you seem to believe Jesus is ONE OF THE THREE "MEMBERS" of Jehovah God, the LORD.

Just to clarify...

Genesis 1:31 ESV... And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.

1 Timothy 3:16 ESV... Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

I believe "he" (personal pronoun) in Genesis 1:31 refers to the same person as "he" (personal pronoun) in 1 Timothy 3:16.

What do you believe?


P.S.

Here is an overview of what I believe...

For this creation, YHWH God (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans (living souls) for his glory where he would reign as a living soul himself. The Scriptures describe how God would accomplish his plan. In an instant, transcendent God (called God the Father) created the supernatural and space-time of this universe and also became immanent as a spirit (called the Spirit of God) and in the form of a living soul (called the Word of God) with a glorious body. God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Word of God. But whereas God created a human spirit and soul for each of us, God himself as the Word became the human spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.
Jesus didnt even know God or His SPirit until God came to him by His SPirit and oepnd up all of His heaven to that man whern he became like Him. See Matt 3:16 for confirmation. He did the same in Adam, Gen 3:22, Abraham recieved the same Spirit Jesus did, Moses recieved the same SPirit Jesus did, Mary recieved the same, 120 recieved the same, and so do we all recieve the same who has recieved where God is manifest in us as He was in manifest in all of these mainly Jesus. Jesus was spot on in Luke 17:20-21 the kingdom fo God doesnt come with observation, it is withn you. He was in all of these the same and all today who has recieved the same form Him.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
You are wrong because the same person in both 1:1 and 1:11 is called Lord and Savior, God and Savior. One Person is being described in both passages.

nice try..................

hope this helps !!!
God is not a person at all - God is a Spirit and resides in the persons. See Luke 17:20-21
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Thank you but its not me who is correct - its the bible - all there for anyone to read.
Unfortunaly they just read it and do not believe it obvious in that not many follow the instructions in it to be perfect as your Father inehaven is perfect to have His same mind and walk as He walks in it do they?
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
First error - no evidence is given that Jesus is not god.
The poster superimposes his false assumption on the scripture instead of drawing the conclusion FROM scripture.
The reason people worship a man as a god is they never have met the God who came to that man by His SPirit and opend up all of His heaven to that man. See Matt 3:16, they cant relate to this God who came to Jesus at all from lack in Him manifest in you yourself as He did in Jesus, In Adam. even he became like God to know this difference, Gen 3:22, Abraham recieved the same Spirit of God, Moses did, Mary did, Jesus did, 120 did, we all recieve the same as these did who will cut the religious acts and recieve Him in theselves as these did. There is no hway to know God at all without the same in you who was in Christ Jesus.

You want evidence Jesus was not God? Then do as Jesus said that in that day ye shall ask me noting but go to the Father for yourself and He will give it you. But you wont do as he said will you?
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Yes -- thats what all your posts ar/.

YOu have not proven it says what you claim it does .

Loaded question - prove it
All I have done is repeat that what Jesus said you should be and would be IF. According to you Jesus lied. Ask him to prove what he said, he cant can he, all he can do or all that I can do is testify of our Father who is God. Had you the same as Jesus had from God the proof would be in your identification with him. It isnt up to me to prove anything it is up to you to prove Jesus. But you cant can you? ALl that you have is what is written in a book about him. As for me the reality in it is the manifestation of the samer he had in himself in myself.
 

Redeemed

Well-known member
All I have done is repeat that what Jesus said you should be and would be IF. According to you Jesus lied. Ask him to prove what he said, he cant can he, all he can do or all that I can do is testify of our Father who is God. Had you the same as Jesus had from God the proof would be in your identification with him. It isnt up to me to prove anything it is up to you to prove Jesus. But you cant can you? ALl that you have is what is written in a book about him. As for me the reality in it is the manifestation of the samer he had in himself in myself.
Gary if you really have that much Jesus in you. You should be out doing big things. Why you could be raising the dead...healing the sick, bringing peace to the Middle East, all sorts of Jesus stuff. And here you are posting on Carm forums. Trying to convince us that you know more than what's in the Bible and not doing a very good job of it. By the way exactly what is a manifestation of the samer? Gary you got to get over yourself ...you're not the reincarnated Jesus. Because all the mumbo-jumbo that you put out there sounds like that's what you believe.

You know that Paul guy that wrote Bible the one you don't follow? Think about this for a minute... if what you're trying to tell us were true you would be able to write posts that could convince people of something. Paul on the other hand who you claim would be a waste of time to study does an excellent job of explaining God's word.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
No you made a claim of what he said - you did not prove thats what he said.
All I have is what others quoted of him. You made a claim that these didnt quote him is all and cant prove they didnt quote him at all can you? .
Your evidence is?
It is your own confession that what Jesus said of himself and his God is unsupported.
Already did
Can you present Jesus? I seriously doubt that you can.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
And you make assertions about teh meaning of those quotes - and you do not prove your assertions true.
All I do is quote what Jesus said of himself, his God, and who I chould be in his God. If what he says isnt good enough for you dont blame me when it is you who edit what he says.
Your evidence is?
What Jesus said of himself and what you should be like him.
Shifting the burden - prove your claims first
Nothing to prove, All I can do is believe that what Jesus said of himself, his God, and what I should be like Him. If you need proof follow that what Jesus said you should be and will be IF. God is the only one who can open His truth to you just as He did in Jesus in Matt 3:16. You cant relate yourself to Matt 3:16 can you? And you expect me to prove that what only God can? Not even Jesus could prove to his opposes that what God does in man but you expect me to? You need to get real here.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
And you make assertions about teh meaning of those quotes - and you do not prove your assertions true.

Only all your claims.
If you think that I wrote John 17, or Matt 3:16 or Matt 5 48, or John 16 23, or 1 John 3. I feel honored that you think I came up with these ideas but in reality I cant take the credit for them thaqt you give me, all I can do is believe what they say of Him. And that doesnt seem to be good enough for you ... Why? nothing here to edit, just read what they say. All you are doing is adding your own oppions from a religious mind in them.
 

Redeemed

Well-known member
All I do is quote what Jesus said of himself, his God, and who I chould be in his God. If what he says isnt good enough for you dont blame me when it is you who edit what he says.

What Jesus said of himself and what you should be like him.

Nothing to prove, All I can do is believe that what Jesus said of himself, his God, and what I should be like Him. If you need proof follow that what Jesus said you should be and will be IF. God is the only one who can open His truth to you just as He did in Jesus in Matt 3:16. You cant relate yourself to Matt 3:16 can you? And you expect me to prove that what only God can? Not even Jesus could prove to his opposes that what God does in man but you expect me to? You need to get real here.
If you think that I wrote John 17, or Matt 3:16 or Matt 5 48, or John 16 23, or 1 John 3. I feel honored that you think I came up with these ideas but in reality I cant take the credit for them thaqt you give me, all I can do is believe what they say of Him. And that doesnt seem to be good enough for you ... Why? nothing here to edit, just read what they say. All you are doing is adding your own oppions from a religious mind in them.
Gary I think whether you know it or not you're into Gnosticism. You do seem to have your own spin on it but most of your ideas come right from Gnosticism. Gnosticism claims hidden knowledge as the basis for salvation. They believed that secret revelation frees the "divine spark" within humans, allowing the human soul to return to the divine realm of light in which it belongs. Gnostics see two categories of Christians with one group being carnal (inferior) and the other being spiritual (superior). Only the superior, divinely enlightened persons could comprehend the secret teachings and obtain true salvation. Gnostics claim to possess an elevated knowledge, a “higher truth” known only to a certain few.

Gnosticism comes from the Greek word gnosis which means “to know.” Gnostics claim to possess a higher knowledge, not from the Bible, but acquired on some mystical higher plane of existence. Gnostics see themselves as a privileged class elevated above everybody else by their higher, deeper knowledge of God. Although they claim to follow Jesus Christ and His original teachings, Gnostics contradict Him at every turn.

Jesus said nothing about salvation through knowledge, but by faith in Him as Savior from sin. “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast” (Ephesians 2:8-9).

On top of that, the salvation Christ offers is free and available to everyone (John 3:16), not just a select few who have acquired a special revelation. Christianity asserts that there is one source of Truth and that is the Bible, the inspired, inerrant Word of the living God, the only infallible rule of faith and practice (John 17:17; 2 Timothy 3:15-17; Hebrews 4:12). It is God’s written revelation to mankind and is never superseded by man’s thoughts, ideas, writings, or visions.

But you Gary deny the writings of Paul which happen to be the majority of the New Testament. Can't you see the foolishness in that Gary?
 
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