Jesus is just a messenger of the word of GOD not GOD .

Jesus
Jesus is just a messenger of the word of GOD not GOD .
A son of GOD not GOD the FATHER.
He shows us that when he shows us how to pray .
Matthew 6:9 (KJV) After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
He did not say pray to him , but to the FATHER.

Matthew 12:50 (KJV)
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
He will be all things to you but not your GOD .

1 Timothy 2:5 (KJV) For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
How more clear must it be ?

These tell us about Jesus . That he is a messenger only and not GOD .
John 3:14 (KJV)
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

Look what happened with the serpent.
Numbers 21:8-9 (KJV)
8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.
2 Kings 18:4 (KJV)
He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.

Isaiah 42:1 (KJV) Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, [in whom] my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Isaiah 42:8 (KJV) I [am] the LORD: that [is] my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

See how Jesus compares himself to the serpent , so we don’t make the same error as those people did with worshipping the serpent.

He is a faithful servant of the FATHER.
Same as we must be .

If he was GOD the FATHER why would he deliver the kingdom
to the FATHER ?
1 Corinthians 15:24 (KJV) Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
Jesus
Jesus is just a messenger of the word of GOD
False. Jesus is the living Word, e.g. "the word was made flesh and dwelt among us....etc." Jesus is not a messenger of the word, but embodies God's word. He IS the Word, not a messenger of the Word.

It is only those who hear the Word who can hear what God has to say. It is only those who can see Christ who can see God, e.g. "if you have seen the Son, you have seen the Father".
Isaiah 42:8 (KJV) I [am] the LORD: that [is] my name: and my glory will I not give to another,
This is a remarkable quotation to refute your own position. Christ IS the glory of God. (Hebrews 1:3; Matthew 16:27: Mark 8:38) He is NOT another.
See how Jesus compares himself to the serpent , so we don’t make the same error as those people did with worshipping the serpent.
Jesus doesn't compare himself to a serpent. God instructs Moses to attach a "seraph" to a pole, and Moses complies by constructing a "naXash of brass". These terms are synonymous, and mean "shining one", or "burning one". The only reason serpents are referred to as "naxashim" is because of the burn of their bite. The comparison is in that they're both lifted up and draw all those who will be saved.. It's a type for the crucifixion.
 

Dant01

Active member
.
Gen 1:26a . . And God said: Let us make Man in our image, after our likeness.

The introduction of the plural personal pronouns "us" and "our" into the narrative at
this point has given rise to some interesting speculation regarding the identities of
the antecedents. But we need not guess because within the context of the first
chapter of Genesis, God is revealed as:

1) Himself

2) His spirit

3) His voice.

Those three aspects of God's existence took part in creating the cosmos-- all its
forms of life, matter, and energy --and seeing as how they are spoken of as "us"
and as "our" then I think it's safe to regard those three aspects as sentient beings,
i.e. persons.


FAQ: God's voice is a person?

REPLY: Yes; a very person.

John 1:1-3 . . In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and
the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made
by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

The Greek noun translated "Word" is logos (log'-os) which basically refers to
something spoken as opposed to something going on in one's thoughts, viz; logos
refers to voice, i.e. speech; for example:

"By the voice of God the heavens were of old" (2Pet 3:5)

Please don't ask me how God's voice is a sentient being because it is just too far
beyond the capability of my below-average IQ to comprehend.

What's even more mysterious is how God's voice became an h.sapiens.

John 1:14 . . So the Logos became human and lived here on earth among us.

So then, Christ was mucn more than only a messenger of God's words
_
 
False. Jesus is the living Word, e.g. "the word was made flesh and dwelt among us....etc." Jesus is not a messenger of the word, but embodies God's word. He IS the Word, not a messenger of the Word.

It is only those who hear the Word who can hear what God has to say. It is only those who can see Christ who can see God, e.g. "if you have seen the Son, you have seen the Father".

This is a remarkable quotation to refute your own position. Christ IS the glory of God. (Hebrews 1:3; Matthew 16:27: Mark 8:38) He is NOT another.

Jesus doesn't compare himself to a serpent. God instructs Moses to attach a "seraph" to a pole, and Moses complies by constructing a "naXash of brass". These terms are synonymous, and mean "shining one", or "burning one". The only reason serpents are referred to as "naxashim" is because of the burn of their bite. The comparison is in that they're both lifted up and draw all those who will be saved.. It's a type for the crucifixion.
Your reply just proves my comment.
Thanks
 

Fred

Well-known member
Matthew 6:9 (KJV) After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
He did not say pray to him , but to the FATHER.

Yes, He did (John 14:14).
John 14:14
If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it. (NASB)

Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TDNT): The unity of the Son with the Father finds expressions in the fact that prayer in the name of Jesus can be directed to either Father or Son (5:276, onoma, Hans Bietenhard).





If he was GOD the FATHER

Jesus isn't the Father.
 
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.
Gen 1:26a . . And God said: Let us make Man in our image, after our likeness.

The introduction of the plural personal pronouns "us" and "our" into the narrative at
this point has given rise to some interesting speculation regarding the identities of
the antecedents. But we need not guess because within the context of the first
chapter of Genesis, God is revealed as:

1) Himself

2) His spirit

3) His voice.

Those three aspects of God's existence took part in creating the cosmos-- all its
forms of life, matter, and energy --and seeing as how they are spoken of as "us"
and as "our" then I think it's safe to regard those three aspects as sentient beings,
i.e. persons.


FAQ: God's voice is a person?

REPLY: Yes; a very person.

John 1:1-3 . . In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and
the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made
by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

The Greek noun translated "Word" is logos (log'-os) which basically refers to
something spoken as opposed to something going on in one's thoughts, viz; logos
refers to voice, i.e. speech; for example:

"By the voice of God the heavens were of old" (2Pet 3:5)

Please don't ask me how God's voice is a sentient being because it is just too far
beyond the capability of my below-average IQ to comprehend.

What's even more mysterious is how God's voice became an h.sapiens.

John 1:14 . . So the Logos became human and lived here on earth among us.

So then, Christ was mucn more than only a messenger of God's words
_
To be clear one is in great error referring to GOD as a person .
That in itself is bringing GOD down to mans level . Disrespectful to GOD .
Read Gens 1 again .
Up to Gens 1:26 you read GOD said .
Gens 1:8 HE made the heavens .
In Gens 2:1 it says HE made the hosts of them .
So by conclusion, not adding to or taking away , when HE made the heavens HE made the hosts of them also.
So by the time we get to Gens 1:26 HIS servants , the Angels , were made .
so in Gens 1:26 HE was talking to HIS Angels.
 
Yes, He did (John 14:14).
John 14:14
If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it. (NASB)

Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TDNT): The unity of the Son with the Father finds expressions in the fact that prayer in the name of Jesus can be directed to either Father or Son (5:276, onoma, Hans Bietenhard).







Jesus isn't the Father.
If you know Jesus is not the Father then you are saying Jesus is a GOD or at least a host of heaven .
Therefore you are worshipping another god or a host of heaven .
You are breaking the 1st commandment.
Jesus came to separate tares from the wheat . To find the true worshippers of GOD .
 
False. Jesus is the living Word, e.g. "the word was made flesh and dwelt among us....etc." Jesus is not a messenger of the word, but embodies God's word. He IS the Word, not a messenger of the Word.

It is only those who hear the Word who can hear what God has to say. It is only those who can see Christ who can see God, e.g. "if you have seen the Son, you have seen the Father".

This is a remarkable quotation to refute your own position. Christ IS the glory of God. (Hebrews 1:3; Matthew 16:27: Mark 8:38) He is NOT another.

Jesus doesn't compare himself to a serpent. God instructs Moses to attach a "seraph" to a pole, and Moses complies by constructing a "naXash of brass". These terms are synonymous, and mean "shining one", or "burning one". The only reason serpents are referred to as "naxashim" is because of the burn of their bite. The comparison is in that they're both lifted up and draw all those who will be saved.. It's a type for the crucifixion.
By your own quote of Isaiah HE will not give HIS glory to another .
This is the FATHER talking . Use simple understanding , what the scriptures say .
Don’t add to .
 
Incorrect.

I am saying Jesus is God.

You dodged the passages in which the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer because they refute your heresy.
Nothing to dodge .
True worshippers of the FATHER would know what Jesus was saying.
John 4:24 (KJV)
God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.
Numbers 23:19 (KJV)
God [is] not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do [it]? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Matthew 11:27 (KJV)
All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and [he] to whomsoever the Son will reveal [him].

The word of GOD carries the spirit of GOD .
If you have the word of GOD in you then you have the spirit of GOD .
To make GOD man or three gods both are incorrect.
To make either one of them work you have to ignore some of GODs word .
 
.
Gen 1:26a . . And God said: Let us make Man in our image, after our likeness.

The introduction of the plural personal pronouns "us" and "our" into the narrative at
this point has given rise to some interesting speculation regarding the identities of
the antecedents. But we need not guess because within the context of the first
chapter of Genesis, God is revealed as:

1) Himself

2) His spirit

3) His voice.

Those three aspects of God's existence took part in creating the cosmos-- all its
forms of life, matter, and energy --and seeing as how they are spoken of as "us"
and as "our" then I think it's safe to regard those three aspects as sentient beings,
i.e. persons.


FAQ: God's voice is a person?

REPLY: Yes; a very person.

John 1:1-3 . . In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and
the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made
by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

The Greek noun translated "Word" is logos (log'-os) which basically refers to
something spoken as opposed to something going on in one's thoughts, viz; logos
refers to voice, i.e. speech; for example:

"By the voice of God the heavens were of old" (2Pet 3:5)

Please don't ask me how God's voice is a sentient being because it is just too far
beyond the capability of my below-average IQ to comprehend.

What's even more mysterious is how God's voice became an h.sapiens.

John 1:14 . . So the Logos became human and lived here on earth among us.

So then, Christ was mucn more than only a messenger of God's words
_
Yes Jesus was more .
he came to separate the tares from the wheat .
To seek the true worshippers of the FATHER.
 
Incorrect.

I am saying Jesus is God.

You dodged the passages in which the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer because they refute your heresy.
Most of your fellow brothers on here will disagree with you .
I have discovered you have to know what group of Christians you are talking to .
one group says he is god , the other says he is the son .
goes to prove he has not revealed himself or his father to you .
you are still blind .
instead of telling GOD what you hear you should listen to what HE is saying .
 

Fred

Well-known member
If you know Jesus is not the Father


Since you seem quite confident that Jesus is not God then it shouldn't be any problem for you in differentiating your creator (father) from your creature-jesus concerning the following pronouns below.

1 John 2:3 (Him; His)
1 John 2:4 (Him; His)
1 John 2:5 (His; Him)
1 John 2:6 (Him; He)
1 John 2:8 (Him)
1 John 2:12 (His)
1 John 2:13 (Him)
1 John 2:14 (Him)
1 John 2:20 (Holy One)
1 John 2:25 (He)
1 John 2:27 (Him; His; Him)
1 John 2:28 (Him; He; Him; His)
1 John 2:29 (He; Him)
1 John 3:2 (He; Him X2; He)
1 John 3:3 (Him; He)
1 John 3:5 (He; Him)
1 John 3:6 (Him X3)
1 John 3:7 (He)
1 John 3:19 (Him)
1 John 3:23 (He)
1 John 3:24
1 John 4:4 (He)
1 John 4:13 (Him; He X2; His)
1 John 4:17 (He)
1 John 4:19 (He)
1 John 4:21 (Him)
1 John 5:14 (Him; His; He)
1 John 5:15 (He; Him)
1 John 5:20 (Him X2; He)
3 John 1:7 (Name)


If you are feeling extra confident in your beliefs, here are a few more:
1. To whom does "He is true, and there is no unrighteousness in Him" refer to in John 7:18?
2. To whom does "Him" refer to in Romans 10:11?
3. To whom does "Him" refer to in Romans 10:12?
4. To whom does "He" refer to in Galatians 2:8?
5. To whom does "Him" refer to in Philippians 4:13?
6. To whom does the last pronoun ("Him") refer to in Colossians 1:22?
7. To whom does "His" refer to in Colossians 1:29?
8. To whom do both instances of "He" refer to in 1 Thessalonians 5:24?
9. To whom do all the pronouns refer to in 2 Timothy 2:13?
10. To whom does "He" refer to in Hebrews 10:37?
11. To whom does "Him" refer to in 1 Peter 4:5?
12. To whom does "Him" refer to in 2 Peter 3:14?
 
Since you seem quite confident that Jesus is not God then it shouldn't be any problem for you in differentiating your creator (father) from your creature-jesus concerning the following pronouns below.

1 John 2:3 (Him; His)
1 John 2:4 (Him; His)
1 John 2:5 (His; Him)
1 John 2:6 (Him; He)
1 John 2:8 (Him)
1 John 2:12 (His)
1 John 2:13 (Him)
1 John 2:14 (Him)
1 John 2:20 (Holy One)
1 John 2:25 (He)
1 John 2:27 (Him; His; Him)
1 John 2:28 (Him; He; Him; His)
1 John 2:29 (He; Him)
1 John 3:2 (He; Him X2; He)
1 John 3:3 (Him; He)
1 John 3:5 (He; Him)
1 John 3:6 (Him X3)
1 John 3:7 (He)
1 John 3:19 (Him)
1 John 3:23 (He)
1 John 3:24
1 John 4:4 (He)
1 John 4:13 (Him; He X2; His)
1 John 4:17 (He)
1 John 4:19 (He)
1 John 4:21 (Him)
1 John 5:14 (Him; His; He)
1 John 5:15 (He; Him)
1 John 5:20 (Him X2; He)
3 John 1:7 (Name)


If you are feeling extra confident in your beliefs, here are a few more:
1. To whom does "He is true, and there is no unrighteousness in Him" refer to in John 7:18?
2. To whom does "Him" refer to in Romans 10:11?
3. To whom does "Him" refer to in Romans 10:12?
4. To whom does "He" refer to in Galatians 2:8?
5. To whom does "Him" refer to in Philippians 4:13?
6. To whom does the last pronoun ("Him") refer to in Colossians 1:22?
7. To whom does "His" refer to in Colossians 1:29?
8. To whom do both instances of "He" refer to in 1 Thessalonians 5:24?
9. To whom do all the pronouns refer to in 2 Timothy 2:13?
10. To whom does "He" refer to in Hebrews 10:37?
11. To whom does "Him" refer to in 1 Peter 4:5?
12. To whom does "Him" refer to in 2 Peter 3:14?
Your misunderstanding is not proof of anything .
you are blinded by pride .
If Jesus has not revealed the FATHER to you
you will never see truth .
 

Fred

Well-known member
Your misunderstanding is not proof of anything .
you are blinded by pride .
If Jesus has not revealed the FATHER to you
you will never see truth .

You can't figure out who is your creator and who is your creature-jesus.

That is massive confusion on your part.
 
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