Jesus is not literally in the bread and wine

Another posted this, in this forum. I bears repeating and goes to the topic very well

post by MMDAN

Jesus is the Bread of Life and just as bread nourishes our physical bodies, Jesus gives and sustains eternal life to believers. John 6:35 - "I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst." Jesus uses figurative language here to emphasize these spiritual truths. Jesus explains the sense of the entire passage when He says in John 6:63 - "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life."

The literal interpretation, literally eating flesh and literally drinking blood (cannibalism) is absurd. Eating and drinking is not literally with the mouth and the digestive organs of our bodies here, but the reception of God’s grace by believing in Christ, as He makes it clear by repeating the same truths both in metaphoric and plain language below:

John 6:40 - Everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:54 - Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:47 - Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
John 6:58 - He who eats this bread will live forever.

"He who believes" in Christ is equivalent to "he who eats this bread and drinks My blood" because the result is the same, eternal life. John 6 does not afford any support to the Roman Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation. On the contrary, it is an emphatic statement on the primacy of faith as the means by which we receive the grace of God. Jesus is the Bread of Life; we eat of Him and are satisfied when we believe in Him unto salvation.

Bread represents the "staff of life." Sustenance. That which essential to sustain life. Just as bread or sustenance is necessary to maintain physical life, Jesus is all the sustenance necessary for spiritual life. The source of physical life is blood -- "life is in the blood." As with the bread, just as blood is the empowering or source of life physically, Jesus is all the source of spiritual life necessary.
While many NRC's realize that many Roman Catholic's may be offended by the truths in God's Word, our love and compassion for those who have been deceived by the RCC, urges us to share God's own messages. As I have said before, I feel compelled to expose the danger of the most foundational belief of the Church of Roman Catholicism, and that is the RCC's own imaginative idea they have dubbed as: 'transubstantiation' - which is the RCC's strictly human concept that through the words and the hands of a Roman Catholic priest, Jesus Christ manifests Himself as a pre-selected, pre-formed, purchased bakery wafer, consecrated by an RCC priest, secured in an RCC monstrance, and placed on the RCC altar for worship.
 
Does the indwelling of Christ in the believer contradict the Bible's teaching concerning the Second Coming of Christ? Then neither does the Eucharist.

Acts 1: 9 After Jesus said these things, as they were watching, he was lifted up and a cloud took him out of their sight. 10 While he was going away and as they were staring toward heaven, suddenly two men in white robes stood next to them. 11 They said, “Galileans, why are you standing here, looking toward heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way that you saw him go into heaven.”
THe indwelling of Christ in the beliver does not involve any hocus pocus from the RC and has nothing to do with the 2nd Coming of Christ.
 
Transubstantiation is a big word that means nothing happens. The height of deception is to look at a wafer, watch a priest swing incense, bow, pray and at the end of it all proclaim the same wafer is now god. Its still a lifeless, powerless mix of flour and water. I hope catholics wake up to this nonsense some day.
Yes indeed!! The Holy Bible teaches that Satan is the instigator and author of deception. His goal is to destroy mankind and take as many lost souls hostage with him to hell as he can. And, as believers in Jesus Christ, we must warn those who are unwittingly in spiritual deception.
 
Transubstantiation is a big word that means nothing happens. The height of deception is to look at a wafer, watch a priest swing incense, bow, pray and at the end of it all proclaim the same wafer is now god. Its still a lifeless, powerless mix of flour and water. I hope catholics wake up to this nonsense some day.
I totally agree. The deceptive information that the Church of Roman Catholicism methodically puts into the minds of it's followers is oftentimes information that can be spirtually lethal.
 
Transubstantiation is a big word that means nothing happens. The height of deception is to look at a wafer, watch a priest swing incense, bow, pray and at the end of it all proclaim the same wafer is now god. Its still a lifeless, powerless mix of flour and water. I hope catholics wake up to this nonsense some day.
the eastern orthodox shares the same belief but do not call it "transubstatiation'. episcopalians and lutherans holds that both Jesus and the bread/wine is present. lutherans call is cosubstantiation.
 
the eastern orthodox shares the same belief but do not call it "transubstatiation'. episcopalians and lutherans holds that both Jesus and the bread/wine is present. lutherans call is cosubstantiation.
Lutheran view is slightly different and just because they have similiar views to RCs does not mean you are right.
 
the eastern orthodox shares the same belief but do not call it "transubstatiation'. episcopalians and lutherans holds that both Jesus and the bread/wine is present. lutherans call is cosubstantiation.
No matter what it is called by others, this thread is about "transubstantion" that takes place within the Church of Roman Catholicism. Perhaps you can shed some light on why the RCC believes it is important for Roman Catholics to individually prepare themselves in order to receive communion in the Church of Roman Catholicism.
 
I have been thinking on this topic. RCs think the host and wine is the real Jesus' body and blood. They love Jesus so much, they allow evil men who have committed sexually immoral sins to hold Him in their hands. Does this make any sense. If you really believe it is Jesus you would care who was touching Him, you would show real reverence to Him. But the RCC hasn't done so.
 
No matter what it is called by others, this thread is about "transubstantion" that takes place within the Church of Roman Catholicism. Perhaps you can shed some light on why the RCC believes it is important for Roman Catholics to individually prepare themselves in order to receive communion in the Church of Roman Catholicism.
the Catholic church, as well as the Eastern orthodox, have valid orders.
however like the Catholic church, the Eastern orthodox, have requirements for a communicant in order to receive the consecrated host/wine.
 
the Catholic church, as well as the Eastern orthodox, have valid orders.
however like the Catholic church, the Eastern orthodox, have requirements for a communicant in order to receive the consecrated host/wine.
No the RCC does not have valid orders, if they did, then their leaders would meet the scriptural requirements for leaders and yours don't. Yep we know how RCs really see the host/wine by the fact that they allow evil men to handle them. So disrespectful if you truly believe it is the real presence.
 
- Scripture says that the bread and wine are the body and blood of Christ.
- Catholics believe that the bread and wine are the body and blood of Christ.
- The nCCs believe that it is not the body and blood of Christ but that it is symbolic.
- Scripture doesn't say that it is symbolic.
- The nCCs say that scripture is their final/sole authority for the Christian faith.

It is that simple. The nCCs don't have the authority to declare the bread and wine to be symbolic.

Scripture also says that genuine followers of Jesus are truly the body of Christ.

Were they transubstantiated?

And how does your answer to this question inform your thinking process?
 
the Catholic church, as well as the Eastern orthodox, have valid orders.
however like the Catholic church, the Eastern orthodox, have requirements for a communicant in order to receive the consecrated host/wine.
To be a "Christian" according to the Roman Catholic tradition, transubstantiation must be embraced fully and completely. After reading that load of Roman Catholic hooey, I read this Knights of Columbus propaganda:

Often at weddings, funerals and other religious
occasions where those who do not share our faith
are present, there is the temptation among those
present to try to avoid any type of awkwardness by
inviting non-Catholics to receive the Eucharist.
Those who are not in full communion with the
Church, however, are not permitted to participate
at the table of the Lord as if they were full members,
sharers of the full sacramental life of the Church.
Reception of communion creates the public
perception that the one receiving the Lord is in full
unity with the Roman Catholic Church.


Does the Roman Catholic Church now employ furrow-browed, tongue-clucking ordained wannabe Inquisitors who appear to be very mentally troubled, that go to and fro the aisles seeking those who are not "permitted to "participate at the table of the Lord" at this "occasion" as if they were full members" so these haggard 'inquisitors' roam the aisles when there are Roman Catholic "occassions" where 'others' who do not share the RCC faith are present"
 
And you actually believe that!!!!

I guess religious people will fall for anything!!!
I mean in another thread one RC stated the host saves and that is obviously false and the church is for sinners. This is the problem the sinners are meant to repent and change not stay sinners. If the RC sacraments give grace etc as they claim surely there should be change in the sinners.

Then they believe the host is Jesus but allow the sexually immoral leaders to hold and touch Jesus, this to me is extremely irreverent practice.
 
I mean in another thread one RC stated the host saves and that is obviously false and the church is for sinners. This is the problem the sinners are meant to repent and change not stay sinners. If the RC sacraments give grace etc as they claim surely there should be change in the sinners.

Then they believe the host is Jesus but allow the sexually immoral leaders to hold and touch Jesus, this to me is extremely irreverent practice.
🤔 I wonder if anyone has ever written a report of what Roman Catholics truly believe, based upon their actions.

While we would say that "they believe the host is Jesus but allow the sexually immoral leaders to hold and touch Jesus" is an "extremely irreverent practice", yet because the RCs do not object vociferously and continuously against such practices, one is led to deduce that the Roman Catholics – hierarchy and laity – agree with these immoral, irreverent practices, and indeed, support said practices by both their donations to the RCC, and their attendance at the RCC masses.

CATHOLICS, YOUR ACTIONS (or lack thereof) SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS!
They show that you are in agreement with – and support – all the heinous acts your "church" has done over the millenia. You may mock, disparage, denigrate, and deny what you read here, but

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED. YOUR BLOOD IS ON YOUR OWN HANDS.

--Rich
"Esse quam videri"
 
🤔 I wonder if anyone has ever written a report of what Roman Catholics truly believe, based upon their actions.

While we would say that "they believe the host is Jesus but allow the sexually immoral leaders to hold and touch Jesus" is an "extremely irreverent practice", yet because the RCs do not object vociferously and continuously against such practices, one is led to deduce that the Roman Catholics – hierarchy and laity – agree with these immoral, irreverent practices, and indeed, support said practices by both their donations to the RCC, and their attendance at the RCC masses.

CATHOLICS, YOUR ACTIONS (or lack thereof) SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS!
They show that you are in agreement with – and support – all the heinous acts your "church" has done over the millenia. You may mock, disparage, denigrate, and deny what you read here, but

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED. YOUR BLOOD IS ON YOUR OWN HANDS.

--Rich
"Esse quam videri"
That would be an interesting list. I know I am a great believer in the fact that actions speak, it shows where the heart really is.
 
Let me see the list of what RCC preaches and what its actions reveal:

1. They follow Jesus that would be a no. The actions of the RC throughout the centuries - forced conversions, torturing others who are made in God's image, murder, hiding sin, going to war, harming children, sexual immoral, praying to the dead, bowing down to man made images etc, etc.

2. Jesus is our saviour that would be a no. We have RCs claim baptism and their sacraments save, some Marian prayers tell us Mary saves. It appears that whilst Jesus is our redeemer, our saviour they have more than Jesus. Maybe it is because the need a back up plan in case Jesus is too busy to save them.

3. The real presence means the host is Jesus, that would be a no. They allow sexually immoral leaders to touch Jesus. That is irreverent and disrespectful to say the less.

That is just the start of their words and actions not matching.
 
To be a "Christian" according to the Roman Catholic tradition, transubstantiation must be embraced fully and completely. After reading that load of Roman Catholic hooey, I read this Knights of Columbus propaganda:

Often at weddings, funerals and other religious
occasions where those who do not share our faith
are present, there is the temptation among those
present to try to avoid any type of awkwardness by
inviting non-Catholics to receive the Eucharist.
Those who are not in full communion with the
Church, however, are not permitted to participate
at the table of the Lord as if they were full members,
sharers of the full sacramental life of the Church.
Reception of communion creates the public
perception that the one receiving the Lord is in full
unity with the Roman Catholic Church.


Does the Roman Catholic Church now employ furrow-browed, tongue-clucking ordained wannabe Inquisitors who appear to be very mentally troubled, that go to and fro the aisles seeking those who are not "permitted to "participate at the table of the Lord" at this "occasion" as if they were full members" so these haggard 'inquisitors' roam the aisles when there are Roman Catholic "occassions" where 'others' who do not share the RCC faith are present"
i do not see anything wrong with the words you underlined.
Reception of the sacred host is ordinarily reserved only for those who believes in the doctrine of transubstantiation plus other requirements or guidelines to be fulfilled.

“The Eucharist builds the Church,” as Pope John Paul II said (Redemptor Hominis 20). It deepens unity with the Church, more fully assimilating us into Christ (1 Cor. 12:13; CCC 1396).
 
🤔 I wonder if anyone has ever written a report of what Roman Catholics truly believe, based upon their actions.

While we would say that "they believe the host is Jesus but allow the sexually immoral leaders to hold and touch Jesus" is an "extremely irreverent practice", yet because the RCs do not object vociferously and continuously against such practices, one is led to deduce that the Roman Catholics – hierarchy and laity – agree with these immoral, irreverent practices, and indeed, support said practices by both their donations to the RCC, and their attendance at the RCC masses.

CATHOLICS, YOUR ACTIONS (or lack thereof) SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS!
They show that you are in agreement with – and support – all the heinous acts your "church" has done over the millenia. You may mock, disparage, denigrate, and deny what you read here, but

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED. YOUR BLOOD IS ON YOUR OWN HANDS.

--Rich
"Esse quam videri"
"Ex opere operato", i.e. by virtue of the action, means that the efficacy of the action of the sacraments does not depend on anything human, but solely on the will of God as expressed by Christ's institution and promise.... Catholic encyclopedia
 
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