Jesus is NOT Michael !

robycop3

robycop3

Active member
Jesus has authority that Michael does not. If they were the same, they woulda always had the same authority. Scripture differentiates between them :

Jude:8 Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries. 9 Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”

But JESUS reviled Satan!

John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

So we see Jesus didn't hesitate to revile Satan, while Michael wouldn't do it, clearly showing they're separate beings, with Jesus being superior. The SDA notion that they're one & the same came from their guru, Ellen G. White.
 
S

SDAchristian

Member
robycop3 said:
Jesus has authority that Michael does not. If they were the same, they woulda always had the same authority. Scripture differentiates between them :

Jude:8 Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries. 9 Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”

But JESUS reviled Satan!

John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

So we see Jesus didn't hesitate to revile Satan, while Michael wouldn't do it, clearly showing they're separate beings, with Jesus being superior. The SDA notion that they're one & the same came from their guru, Ellen G. White.
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AV Dn 12:1-3 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt. 3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

I do hope you understand the act of "stand up" means spiritually.

I'm curious, in your wisdom and understanding of these scriptures, who is "Michael stand up, the great prince" in context, Please ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 
robycop3

robycop3

Active member
SDAchristian said:
AV Dn 12:1-3 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt. 3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

I do hope you understand the act of "stand up" means spiritually.

I'm curious, in your wisdom and understanding of these scriptures, who is "Michael stand up, the great prince" in context, Please ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
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Michael is apparently the chief angel, & he's been assigned to watch over the people of Israel, to prevent their being wiped out. At no time is Michael called a king.

Y'all believe the "Michael = Jesus" horse feathers because your guru, E. G. White, taught it.
 
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S

SDAchristian

Member
robycop3 said:
Michael is apparently the chief angel, & he's been assigned to watch over the people of Israel, to prevent their being wiped out. At no time is Michael called a king.

Y'all believe the "Michael = Jesus" horse feathers because your guru, E. G. White, taught it.
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AV Isa 9:6-7 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of [his] government and peace [there shall be] no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

I'm curious, in your wisdom and understanding of these scriptures, who is "The Prince of Peace" in context, Please ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 
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robycop3

robycop3

Active member
SDAchristian said:
AV Isa 9:6-7 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of [his] government and peace [there shall be] no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

I'm curious, in your wisdom and understanding of these scriptures, who is "The Prince of Peace" in context, Please ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
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Why, JESUS, of course. Who else will permanently occupy the throne of David ? Do you have another candidate? Or, do you believe Ellen G. White over Scripture ?
 
S

SDAchristian

Member
robycop3 said:
Why, JESUS, of course. Who else will permanently occupy the throne of David ? Do you have another candidate? Or, do you believe Ellen G. White over Scripture ?
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AV Isa 9:6-7 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of [his] government and peace [there shall be] no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

I'm curious, in your wisdom and understanding of these scriptures, Does Jesus have more than one name ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 
robycop3

robycop3

Active member
SDAchristian said:
AV Isa 9:6-7 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of [his] government and peace [there shall be] no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

I'm curious, in your wisdom and understanding of these scriptures, Does Jesus have more than one name ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
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Actually, those "names" are TITLES, which Jesus has, & by which has been called at various times..
 
S

SDAchristian

Member
robycop3 said:
Actually, those "names" are TITLES, which Jesus has, & by which has been called at various times..
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AV Mt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

I'm curious, in your wisdom and understanding of these scriptures, Can names be "TITLES" as well ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 
robycop3

robycop3

Active member
SDAchristian said:
AV Mt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

I'm curious, in your wisdom and understanding of these scriptures, Can names be "TITLES" as well ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
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Yes, & one such is CHRIST. His earthly parents named Him Yeshua, in accordance with Gabriel's command to Mary.
 
S

SDAchristian

Member
robycop3 said:
... Or, do you believe Ellen G. White over Scripture ?
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AV Eph 1:20-22 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places], 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all [things] under his feet, and gave him [to be] the head over all [things] to the church,

This is like asking you, if the reigning Pope is over all the Church of Christ, to lead, guide and direct, in all matters ???

And please do answer my question ...

Yours in Christ, Michael
 
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Wrenage

Member
I have a question related to this topic.

What is it about Seventh Day Adventist theology that requires Jesus to be Michael? Like what unique doctrine, specifically, does Jesus being Michael help satisfy within Seventh Day Adventism?

Jehovah Witnesses also say Jesus is Michael because it helps them support their doctrine that Jesus is not God but a created being. I don't believe Seventh Day Adventists believe that, but what unique position, if any, does Jesus being Michael help Seventh Day Adventism support?
 
robycop3

robycop3

Active member
Wrenage said:
I have a question related to this topic.

What is it about Seventh Day Adventist theology that requires Jesus to be Michael? Like what unique doctrine, specifically, does Jesus being Michael help satisfy within Seventh Day Adventism?

Jehovah Witnesses also say Jesus is Michael because it helps them support their doctrine that Jesus is not God but a created being. I don't believe Seventh Day Adventists believe that, but what unique position, if any, does Jesus being Michael help Seventh Day Adventism support?
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The SDAs say Jesus is Michael because their guru, Ellen G. White wrote that He was. The SDAs support that stuff insteada just admitting EGW was full of baloney.
 
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Wrenage

Member
robycop3 said:
The SDAs say Jesus is Michael because their guru, Ellen G. White wrote that He was. The SDAs support that stuff insteada just admitting EGW was full of baloney.
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I am familiar with Ellen White.

Maybe it is that simple, but I was wondering if it is somehow a part of a Seventh Day Adventist identity doctrine, like the Investigative Judgment or something.

Then again, I suppose Ellen White is part of a Seventh Day Adventist identity doctrine...
 
S

SDAchristian

Member
Wrenage said:
I have a question related to this topic.

What is it about Seventh Day Adventist theology that requires Jesus to be Michael? Like what unique doctrine, specifically, does Jesus being Michael help satisfy within Seventh Day Adventism?
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AV Mt 25:40-41 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me. 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

A subtle understanding from these verses is, NOT RECOGNIZING Jesus in the Bible or other believers is hazardous to eternal life.

AV 2C 5:10-11 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body, according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

We are entering the time of the time, where it is important to recognizing Jesus in others.

AV 1Pt 2:12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by [your] good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

Our witness will be used by Jesus has evidence to the Truth of Jesus, when judgment comes to all mankind.

I will be available to answer others questions, as you present them.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 
S

SDAchristian

Member
robycop3 said:
The SDAs say Jesus is Michael because their guru, Ellen G. White wrote that He was. The SDAs support that stuff insteada just admitting EGW was full of baloney.
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Stating your opinion again. When there is Biblical evidence to support "Michael" as both title and name for Jesus.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 
S

SDAchristian

Member
Wrenage said:
Jehovah Witnesses also say Jesus is Michael because it helps them support their doctrine that Jesus is not God but a created being. I don't believe Seventh Day Adventists believe that, but what unique position, if any, does Jesus being Michael help Seventh Day Adventism support?
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AV Jn 14:8-11 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I [am] in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works'sake.

The works of Jesus are a determining factor in recognizing Jesus, per Jesus. We can examine works evidence, if you care to.

"... if any, does Jesus being Michael help Seventh Day Adventism support?", Jesus' second advent will be counterfeited by satan.

Many will be deceived because many do not truly know Jesus.

AV Mt 7:13-16 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

The "false prophets" sit by the "wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way". So heed Jesus' warning, that the majority("wide"/"broad") religion is NOT "the way".

Yours in Christ, Michael
 
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