Jesus is NOT Michael !

I am familiar with Ellen White.
Maybe it is that simple, but I was wondering if it is somehow a part of a Seventh Day Adventist identity doctrine, like the Investigative Judgment or something.
Then again, I suppose Ellen White is part of a Seventh Day Adventist identity doctrine...

The Gift of Prophecy 18​

The Scriptures testify that one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and we believe it was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. Her writings speak with prophetic authority and provide comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction to the church. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Num. 12:6; 2 Chron. 20:20; Amos 3:7; Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; 2 Tim. 3:16, 17; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10; 22:8, 9.)
AV 1Jn 5:6 . This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

Short answer is Yes. But that leaves us to examine evidence for truthfulness.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

robycop3

Active member
I am familiar with Ellen White.

Maybe it is that simple, but I was wondering if it is somehow a part of a Seventh Day Adventist identity doctrine, like the Investigative Judgment or something.

Then again, I suppose Ellen White is part of a Seventh Day Adventist identity doctrine...
Right. And "investigative judgment" is part of her hooey, too.
 
I am familiar with Ellen White.
Maybe it is that simple, but I was wondering if it is somehow a part of a Seventh Day Adventist identity doctrine, like the Investigative Judgment or something.
Then again, I suppose Ellen White is part of a Seventh Day Adventist identity doctrine...
AV Re 16:5-6 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus. 6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.

In the days of the seven last plagues, the goats will be guilty of killing "saints and prophets". Because they can not recognize Jesus in them.

AV Hb 10:29-30 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

Jesus' sheep can recognize each other, and do not need to kill others to demonstrate their judgment against others. GOD can do "Vengeance" for Themselves.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

robycop3

Active member
So says you, in your own opinion. If you are serious about looking at Bible evidence, start a thread stating your objections, in detail.

Yours in Christ, Michael
I have already posted Scriptural evidence that Jesus is not Michael. As for the "investigative judgment" hooey, rev. 14 refers to the COMING judgment. Nowhere does Scripture say Jesus entered the heavenly temple to do judgment. He will sit on a GREAT WHITE THRONE after the millenium is past & there render judgment against all who died in sin.

You folks must convince yourselves that lies are truths in your attempts to defend your guru, EGW.
 

robycop3

Active member
In my opinion, No. The ONLY opinion that matters is Jesus'. When you are confirmed wrong by Jesus, will you confess your error ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
Jesus isn't Michael, so I have no problem there. Please show us where Jesus called Himself Michael.

You should pay attention to Jesus, not EGW, who was a quack.
 

robycop3

Active member
In other words, "I CAN'T !" OTOH, I posted Scripture showing Jesus is NOT Michael. So, you can keep your incorrect opinion if you wish. Evidently, you think more of EGW than you do Jesus.
 
In other words, "I CAN'T !" OTOH, I posted Scripture showing Jesus is NOT Michael. So, you can keep your incorrect opinion if you wish. Evidently, you think more of EGW than you do Jesus.
"In other words, "I CAN'T !" OTOH, ...", Can I put words into your mouth too ???

"I posted Scripture showing Jesus is NOT Michael.", That is an expression of opinion too.

"So, you can keep your incorrect opinion if you wish.", That is an opinion as well. But I know Jesus knows the Truth.

AV Mk 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

"Evidently, you think more of EGW than you do Jesus.", So you really value Jesus' truth about "man" ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

robycop3

Active member
"In other words, "I CAN'T !" OTOH, ...", Can I put words into your mouth too ???

"I posted Scripture showing Jesus is NOT Michael.", That is an expression of opinion too.

"So, you can keep your incorrect opinion if you wish.", That is an opinion as well. But I know Jesus knows the Truth.

AV Mk 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

"Evidently, you think more of EGW than you do Jesus.", So you really value Jesus' truth about "man" ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
No answer for the FACTS I presented. And nowhere in Scripture are gentiles commanded to observe the sabbath. Col. 2:16 settles that matter.
 
No answer for the FACTS I presented. And nowhere in Scripture are gentiles commanded to observe the sabbath. Col. 2:16 settles that matter.
Let's turn this around:

AV 1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Is there any prohibition of keeping Jesus' flesh righteousness in sabbath keeping while walking the earth ???

Prophecy Question: Are you willing to support a Sunday Death Decree to kill sabbath keepers ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

robycop3

Active member
Let's turn this around:

AV 1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Is there any prohibition of keeping Jesus' flesh righteousness in sabbath keeping while walking the earth ???
[/QUOTE]
As a man, Jesus was a JEW, so He observed the sabbath, passover, & all the other rites & observances God gave to Israel.
Prophecy Question: Are you willing to support a Sunday Death Decree to kill sabbath keepers ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

Let's turn this around:

AV 1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Is there any prohibition of keeping Jesus' flesh righteousness in sabbath keeping while walking the earth ???

Prophecy Question: Are you willing to support a Sunday Death Decree to kill sabbath keepers ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
HOW SILLY ! OF COURSE NOT! I observe Col. 2:16. If you wish to obey EGW over God, that's between you & Him. And I don't hafta answer for YOUR blasphemy in calling Jesus Michael the archangel.
 

Wrenage

New member
AV Mt 25:40-41 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me. 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

A subtle understanding from these verses is, NOT RECOGNIZING Jesus in the Bible or other believers is hazardous to eternal life.

AV 2C 5:10-11 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body, according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

We are entering the time of the time, where it is important to recognizing Jesus in others.

AV 1Pt 2:12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by [your] good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

Our witness will be used by Jesus has evidence to the Truth of Jesus, when judgment comes to all mankind.

I will be available to answer others questions, as you present them.

Yours in Christ, Michael
I am not sure what you are trying to say here.
AV Mt 25:40-41 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me. 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

A subtle understanding from these verses is, NOT RECOGNIZING Jesus in the Bible or other believers is hazardous to eternal life.

AV 2C 5:10-11 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body, according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

We are entering the time of the time, where it is important to recognizing Jesus in others.

AV 1Pt 2:12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by [your] good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

Our witness will be used by Jesus has evidence to the Truth of Jesus, when judgment comes to all mankind.

I will be available to answer others questions, as you present them.

Yours in Christ, Michael
Thank you for taking the time to reply, but I am not sure what you are trying to say here.

The question was "what is it about Seventh Day Adventist theology that requires Jesus to be Michael? Like what unique doctrine, specifically, does Jesus being Michael help satisfy within Seventh Day Adventism?"

You then reference Matthew 25:40-41.

I don't see how it pertains to the question, unless you saying that if a person does not recognize Michael as Jesus, then they are not following the real Jesus? I'm not sure what other conclusion to draw regarding the question and the verse given.

For the believers in Matthew 25, God has nothing but good things to say to them because Christ removed all of their sins, as far as the east is from the west, cast into the depts of the sea, remembered no more, etc. Meanwhile, the unbelievers are not clothed in Christ's righteousness, so God has nothing but bad things to say to them.

I don't see the Micahel connection.

You then reference 1 Peter 2:12.

I don't see how it pertains to the question, unless you saying Seventh Day Adventists will be glorified by unbelievers on Judgment Day for teaching that Jesus is Michael?

Various commentaries seem to say this verse is saying that unbelievers could be converted by witnessing the lives of Christians, and then glorify God, as well, on Judgment Day.
 

John t

Member
Amen:

Jesus also crushed the serpent's head. That something Michael could not do.
An archangel /ˌɑːrkˈeɪndʒəl/ is an angel of high rank. The word "archangel" itself is usually associated with the Abrahamic religions, but beings that are very similar to archangels are found in a number of religious traditions.​
The English word archangel is derived from the Greek ἀρχάγγελος (arch- + angel, literally "chief angel" or "angel of origin").[1] It appears only twice in the New Testament in the phrase "with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God" (1 Thessalonians 4:16) and in relation to "the archangel Michael" (Jude 9). The corresponding but different Hebrew word in the Hebrew Scripture (Old Testament) is found in two places as in "Michael, one of the chief princes" (Dan 10:13) and in "Michael, the great prince" (Dan 12:1).​
From wikipedia
----------------------------
any of several chiefs, rulers, or princes of angels in the hierarchy of angels of the major Western religions, especially Judaism, Christianity, and Islām, and of certain syncretic religions, such as Gnosticism. See angel.​

"archangel." Encyclopædia Britannica. Deluxe Edition. Chicago: Encyclopædia Britannica, 2008.


ARCHANGEL:​
(1Thess. 4:16; Jude 1:9), the prince of the angels.​

from ISBE (International Standard Bible Encyclopedia



MICHAEL (ANGEL) [Heb mı̂kāʾēl (מִיכָאֵל)]. In the elaborate angelology that emerged in Judaism during the Hellenistic period, Michael is a prince (śar; Dan 10:13, 21) or archangel (archangelos; Jude 9; 1 En. 20:1–7; 71:3; 2 En. 22:6 [A]; 4 Bar. 9:5). His name means “Who is like God?” He frequently plays a role in late Jewish and Christian literature, but is mentioned in Scripture only in Dan 10:13, 21; 12:1; Jude 9; and Rev 12:7 (cf. 1 Thess 4:16).​
Michael, along with Raphael, Gabriel, and Phanuel, is one of the four archangels present before the throne of God (1 En. 9:1; 40; 54:6; 71:8–9, 13; cf. 1 En. 87:2; 88:1; 1QM 9:14–15) and of a larger group of archangels numbering seven (1 En. 20:1–7; Tob 12:15; cf. 1 En. 81:5; 90:21–22; Rev 8:2). He is often represented as the leader of the archangels (Ascen. Isa. 3:16).​
In his capacity as archangel, Michael has several roles. He is first of all the patron angel of Israel (Dan 10:21; 12:1; 1 En. 20:5; 1QM 17:6–8; cf. T. Mos. 10:2). In this capacity he fights for Israel against the rival angels of the Persians (Dan 10:13–14, 20–21) and will deliver Israel from the tribulation of its enemies in the last days (Dan 12:1; cf. Rev 12:7–9; T. Levi 5:5–6). He is the champion of Israel against the forces of Edom (i.e., Rome; Exod. Rab. 18:5), and his name is emblazoned on one of the four towers used in the holy war against the Kittim (i.e., Romans; 1QM 9:14–15). In this bellicose capacity, Michael is called an archistratig or chief captain (2 En. 22:6 [J]; 33:10).​
Michael is also an intercessor for Israel before God (Tob 12:15; cf. T. Dan 6:2; T. Levi 5:5–6) as well as for the entire world (1 Enoch 9; Ascen. Isa. 9:23 [Latin]). In relation to this role, he is described as merciful (1 En. 20:5; 40:9; 68; cf. 71:3) and righteous (4 Bar. 9:5; cf. 1 En. 71:3), and as opening the gates of heaven for the righteous (4 Bar. 9:5). He is the guardian of the soul of Abraham (T. Abr. 19:4) and contended with Satan for the body of Moses (Jude 9). This latter story is probably derived from the lost ending of the T. Mos. (so Origen princ. 3.2.1) and dealt with Satan’s claim that Moses did not deserve an honorable burial because he had murdered the Egyptian (Exod 2:12). In tradition, Michael does bury Moses (Tg. Ps.–J. on Deut 34:6​


Watson, D. F. (1992). Michael (Angel). In D. N. Freedman (Ed.), The Anchor Yale Bible Dictionary (Vol. 4, p. 811). New York: Doubleday.

THIS BELOW IS THE BOTTOM LINE:

According to Ellen G. White (EGW), the Seventh-day Adventist's prophet, and also taught by the Jehovah's Witnesses. Evangelical Christianity has rejected the teaching that Michael is Christ, because it is not Biblical. It may surprise you to learn that there are only five references in the entire Bible to Michael, and not one reference names Michael as Jesus Christ. We will look at each one of them.

from http://www.truthorfables.com/Is_Michael_Christ.html

I DID ALL THAT RESEARCH TO DEMONSTRATE THAT ONLY THE SDA HAS THAT COCKAMAMIE ABERRANT DOCTRINE. .

Countless Scriptures were referenced in the citations above but NONE of the Scripture verses contain and reference to the bilge water SDA belief that Michael=Jesus Christ. Even their baseless assertion that the name of their misinformed "translation of Michael's name" holds no water, even with extra-biblical citations, which is why I cited them.

therefore, the origin of that aberrant belief comes in two channels about the same person, Ellen White. Because they regard her writings as "new revelation from God, and that she is a prophet, whatever nonsense she wrote is prejudged as coming from an oracle of God., therefore inerrant.

The second channel is the well-known fact that Ellen frequently had fits of catalepsy. That is a medical condition characterized by a trance or seizure with a loss of sensation and consciousness accompanied by rigidity of the body.

The medical dictionary has a very interesting definition of catalepsy, especially as it relates to mental illness:

Catalepsy may accompany any of several different mental illnesses. It is common in catatonic schizophrenia and may also occur in epilepsy, hysteria, and cerebellar disorders; it may also be induced by hypnosis. The patient may sit with the hands flat on the knees and the head bowed or may remain in an awkward and uncomfortable position. The patient is not necessarily unaware of what is going on but does not respond. This apathetic condition may end as suddenly as it begins​

from https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/catalepsy

Therefore, the inescapable conclusion is that Ellen hypnotized herself into catalepsy, had epileptic episodes of catalepsy , or was a non-diagnosed schizophrenic mentally ill person.

why is this so important? There is no evidence of ANY Old Testament prophet having such conditions. NONE had any questions raised as to their mental health. But Ellen was diagnosed by her medical doctor. as having catalepsy. That makes her incompetent to be a legitimate servant/prophet of God. The only parallel to that is to call Ted Kazinski or Charles Manson "prophets" and follow them. That is the same degree of absurdity that the SDAs stubbornly cling to when they collectively venerate Ellen as a "prophetess".

if you think I err, then here is the "explanation" of one of the SDA's fundamental belief, number 18:

The Scriptures testify that one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and we believe it was manifested in the ministry of Ellen G. White. Her writings speak with prophetic authority and provide comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction to the church. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested.​
No doubt about it: they follow someone who was mentally ill, and build their church on that shaky foundation

Watch the "rebuttals, having zero facts," and 100% ad hominems as a defense.
 

Buzzard

Member
Watch the "rebuttals, having zero facts," and 100% ad hominems as a defense.
an Hominem
(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

care to give us some examples of these

here is a defination
Ad hominem
An attack upon an opponent in order to discredit their arguement or opinion.
Ad hominems are used by immature and/or unintelligent people
because they are unable to counter their opponent using logic and intelligence.

in your signature you say;
God did not stutter when He told the Scripture writers what to write.
so; I hoping you can answer this for us

Matt. 21:23
And when he was come into the temple,
the chief priests and the elders of the people came unto him as he was teaching,
and said,
By what authority doest thou these things?
and
who gave thee this authority?

24 And Jesus answered and said unto them,
I also will ask you one thing, which if ye tell me,
I in like wise will tell you by what authority I do these things
.

25 The baptism of John, whence was it?
from heaven, or of men?
And they reasoned with themselves,
saying,
If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us,
Why did ye not then believe him?

26 But if we shall say, Of men;
we fear the people;
for all hold John as a prophet.

27 And they answered Jesus,
and said, We cannot tell.
And he said unto them,
Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things.


Now Christ gets right to the Point

28 But what think ye?
A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first,

and said,
Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
He answered and said,
I will not: but afterward he repented, and went
.

30 And he came to the second, and said likewise.

And he answered and said,
I go, sir: and went not.

Now the Question is;
which one of the 2 did the will of the Father ????

31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father?

They say unto him, The first.

So; tdickensheets;
Who are these Two (2) Sons Christ spake of
;;
But what think ye?
A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first,
and said, .........................

Also:
Who gave Christ the Authority to do the things he did ????
 
I am not sure what you are trying to say here.
I will back be here to answer in steps towards a goal, so I will be using at least several posts.

AV Jn 1:1-2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.

AV Jn 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Was Jesus "the Word" before becoming/"was made" "flesh" ???

AV Mt 1:21-23 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. 22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, 23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

So what are all the names of "the Word", before "the Word" was called "his name JESUS" ???

AV Jn 14:6-11 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I [am] in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works'sake.

After three and a half years, Philip had issues of recognizing GOD in the flesh or in the GODhead. This is the problem, I will address as a discussion. As it relates to "Michael{H4317 Miyka'el}", Is recognizing GOD in Their three persons, many forms, titles and names.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 
A matter of Contast:
AV Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
AV Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Reference: Lucifer is an angel of GOD. "I will be like the most High.", But not with resurrection power.
An archangel /ˌɑːrkˈeɪndʒəl/ is an angel of high rank. The word "archangel" itself is usually associated with the Abrahamic religions, but beings that are very similar to archangels are found in a number of religious traditions.​
The English word archangel is derived from the Greek ἀρχάγγελος (arch- + angel, literally "chief angel" or "angel of origin").[1] It appears only twice in the New Testament in the phrase "with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God" (1 Thessalonians 4:16) and in relation to "the archangel Michael" (Jude 9). The corresponding but different Hebrew word in the Hebrew Scripture (Old Testament) is found in two places as in "Michael, one of the chief princes" (Dan 10:13) and in "Michael, the great prince" (Dan 12:1).​
From wikipedia
AV 1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
AV Ju 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Bible evidence supports the ONLY bodily escape from the grave is resurrection.

I have understood this verse to say(noting proper order), "shout" of the Father, "the voice of the archangel" of Jesus and "the trump of God" the Holy Spirit; The GODhead working resurrection from the dead. Bible evidence suggest ONLY the GODhead can resurrect from the grave. Textual evidence for GODhead or "Trinity".

AV Mt 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power{G1849 exousia, authority, jurisdiction, liberty, power, right, strength} is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
AV Jn 5:28-29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
AV Jn 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

In your soteriology, Who's "his voice"/"the voice" has the "power" to resurrect a soul, with your scripture evidence please ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 
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