Jesus is ONE of The THREE Persons who are called God(Yahweh).

Yahchristian

Well-known member
Jesus is ONE of The THREE Persons who are called God (Yahweh).

Isaiah 42:5... Thus saith God (Yahweh), he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

I think there are three basic beliefs promoted on this forum...

A) Jesus is NOT the incarnation of God (Yahweh).

B) Jesus is the incarnation of ONE of the THREE Persons who are called God (Yahweh).

C) Jesus IS the incarnation of God (Yahweh).

Which statement do you agree with?

I believe C.

If you do not agree with any of the statements, please post your statement of belief.
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
A) Jesus is NOT the incarnation of God (Yahweh).

B) Jesus is the incarnation of ONE of the THREE Persons who are called God (Yahweh).

C) Jesus IS the incarnation of God (Yahweh).

Is there anyone else who is willing to post which statement you agree with?

I say C.
 

jamesh

Active member
Is there anyone else who is willing to post which statement you agree with?

I say C.
Not me! We've been over these same old questions a thousand times over many years here on CARM. You personally teach that God the Father is the Holy Spirit which is a form of "Modalism."

My question is this? John 15:26, where Jesus is speaking. "When the Helper/Holy Spirit comes whom (Whom is the object form of the pronoun who which is a person) I will send (Jesus is sending another Person) from the Father, (notice "from the Father" and not is the Father) the Spirit of truth, who proceeds FROM the Father, (again who is not the Father) He/Holy Spirit will bear witness of Me." There are three distinct persons in this one verse.

I purposefully dissected the verse for you despite the fact that you will (as is your habit) contradict what it clearly states and teaches. Go ahead then, come up with another one of your lame excuses or should I say another question from you to deflect from answering mine.

IN GOD THE SON,
james
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
I will answer your question even though you seem to be unable to answer mine.

My question is this? John 15:26, where Jesus is speaking. "When the Helper/Holy Spirit comes whom (Whom is the object form of the pronoun who which is a person) I will send (Jesus is sending another Person) from the Father, (notice "from the Father" and not is the Father) the Spirit of truth, who proceeds FROM the Father, (again who is not the Father) He/Holy Spirit will bear witness of Me." There are three distinct persons in this one verse.

I purposefully dissected the verse for you despite the fact that you will (as is your habit) contradict what it clearly states and teaches. Go ahead then, come up with another one of your lame excuses or should I say another question from you to deflect from answering mine.

But first, please post your question.

The only question mark in your post was not a question...

“My question is this?“
 

jamesh

Active member
I will answer your question even though you seem to be unable to answer mine.



But first, please post your question.

The only question mark in your post was not a question...

“My question is this?“
Ok, just for you I will answer, BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB

IN GOD THE SON,
james
 

jamesh

Active member
I will but you have not said what your question is !!!!

There are no ? In your post above.

Post your question in this thread and I will answer it.
Ok fine! Jesus is speaking so according to the grammar, pronouns and the definition of a couple of words are there three persons identified in this verse? And another question I just thought of now. Are there three persons identified at Matther 28:19?

1. Yes

2. No

IN GOD THE SON,
james
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
Jesus is speaking so according to the grammar, pronouns and the definition of a couple of words are there three persons identified in this verse?

No. Just as Jesus (while on earth) saying “the Son of man who is in heaven” does not identify two persons. There is only one who is God, YHWH. That is why YHWH can say “I am YHWH your God”.


And another question I just thought of now. Are there three persons identified at Matther 28:19?

No. Those are three titles of YHWH. “The Father” refers to YHWH In transcendence, “the Son” refers to YHWH incarnate, and “the Holy Spirit” refers to YHWH in immanence.

That is why Jesus could say “if you have seen me you have seen the Father”.
 

jamesh

Active member
No. Just as Jesus (while on earth) saying “the Son of man who is in heaven” does not identify two persons. There is only one who is God, YHWH. That is why YHWH can say “I am YHWH your God”.




No. Those are three titles of YHWH. “The Father” refers to YHWH In transcendence, “the Son” refers to YHWH incarnate, and “the Holy Spirit” refers to YHWH in immanence.

That is why Jesus could say “if you have seen me you have seen the Father”.
First of all what verse are you referencing where Jesus (while on earth) saing the Son of man who is in heaven?"

Secondly, your quoting John 14:9 where Jesus says, "seeing me you have seen the Father." Are you telling me that Jesus Christ is God the Father? Yes or No? Answer this first and then I will address the "title" question at Matt. 28:19.

IN GOD THE SON,
james
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
First of all what verse are you referencing where Jesus (while on earth) saing the Son of man who is in heaven?"

John 3:13 NJKV... No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.


Secondly, your quoting John 14:9 where Jesus says, "seeing me you have seen the Father." Are you telling me that Jesus Christ is God the Father? Yes or No?

Yes. The distinction is “the Father” is YHWH in transcendence and “Jesus” is YHWH incarnate.

May I ask you...

Did those who saw Jesus see the Father? Yes or No?
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
Isaiah 42:5... Thus saith God (Yahweh), he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

I think there are three basic beliefs promoted on this forum...

A) Jesus is NOT the incarnation of God (Yahweh).

B) Jesus is the incarnation of ONE of the THREE Persons who are called God (Yahweh).

C) Jesus IS the incarnation of God (Yahweh).

Which statement do you agree with?

I believe C.

If you do not agree with any of the statements, please post your statement of belief.
B) and C) are true.
 

jamesh

Active member
Now I see the problem. The following is about "transcendence." "To transcend means “to exist above and independent from; to rise above, surpass, succeed.” By this definition, God is the only truly transcendent Being. The “LORD God Almighty” (in Hebrew, El Shaddai) created all things on the earth, beneath the earth and in the heavens above, yet He exists above and independent from them. All things are upheld by His mighty power (Hebrews 1:3), yet He is upheld by Himself alone. The whole universe exists in Him and for Him that He may receive glory, honor and praise."

Notice that in the article about transcendence it says only "God" or "The LORD God Almighty" (in Hebrew, El Shaddai) created all things etc. That is the one God (singular) is in transcendence. What you have done is insert the person of God the Father as the only one/person being in transcendence. Since Jesus Christ is God (and you have already admitted that fact) and so is the Holy Spirit, are they not included within the Godhead as distinct persons who share the same exact nature which makes them the one being of God in transcendence?

With regards to John 14:9 your espousing "Modalism" when you say "seeing Jesus Christ is seeing God the Father, therefore Jesus is God the Father. God the Father cannot be seen, even according to Jesus Christ Himself. The Father has no separate manifestion from the Son. The Son is the only manifestation and revelation of the Father. What is known of the Father is revealed through the Son. To see the Son is to see the essence of the Father. (John 1:1, 18; a0:30; 12:45; Colossians 1:15; Hebrews 1:3).

Now, notice John 14:10 where Jesus says, "I am in the Father (one person identified) and the Father is in Me? (person number two). Now look at John 14:16 where Jesus says, "And I will ask the Father (2 persons) and He will give you another Helper (person #3) that He/Person #3 will be with you forever." The definition of the word "another." used to refer to an additional person or thing as the same type as one (or in this case as two) persons already mentioned.

In conclusion, you have wrongly isolated only God the Father as being in transcendence when God as one being (as the article indicates) is wholly transcendent.

IN GOD THE SON,
james
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
John 3:13 NJKV... No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.




Yes. The distinction is “the Father” is YHWH in transcendence and “Jesus” is YHWH incarnate.

May I ask you...

Did those who saw Jesus see the Father? Yes or No?
Yep, even though Jesus is NOT The Father,
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
No. Just as Jesus (while on earth) saying “the Son of man who is in heaven” does not identify two persons. There is only one who is God, YHWH. That is why YHWH can say “I am YHWH your God”.




No. Those are three titles of YHWH. “The Father” refers to YHWH In transcendence, “the Son” refers to YHWH incarnate, and “the Holy Spirit” refers to YHWH in immanence.

That is why Jesus could say “if you have seen me you have seen the Father”.
ONE name of God, NOT three.
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
Now I see the problem. The following is about "transcendence." "To transcend means “to exist above and independent from; to rise above, surpass, succeed.” By this definition, God is the only truly transcendent Being. The “LORD God Almighty” (in Hebrew, El Shaddai) created all things on the earth, beneath the earth and in the heavens above, yet He exists above and independent from them. All things are upheld by His mighty power (Hebrews 1:3), yet He is upheld by Himself alone. The whole universe exists in Him and for Him that He may receive glory, honor and praise."

Notice that in the article about transcendence it says only "God" or "The LORD God Almighty" (in Hebrew, El Shaddai) created all things etc. That is the one God (singular) is in transcendence. What you have done is insert the person of God the Father as the only one/person being in transcendence. Since Jesus Christ is God (and you have already admitted that fact) and so is the Holy Spirit, are they not included within the Godhead as distinct persons who share the same exact nature which makes them the one being of God in transcendence?

With regards to John 14:9 your espousing "Modalism" when you say "seeing Jesus Christ is seeing God the Father, therefore Jesus is God the Father. God the Father cannot be seen, even according to Jesus Christ Himself. The Father has no separate manifestion from the Son. The Son is the only manifestation and revelation of the Father. What is known of the Father is revealed through the Son. To see the Son is to see the essence of the Father. (John 1:1, 18; a0:30; 12:45; Colossians 1:15; Hebrews 1:3).

Now, notice John 14:10 where Jesus says, "I am in the Father (one person identified) and the Father is in Me? (person number two). Now look at John 14:16 where Jesus says, "And I will ask the Father (2 persons) and He will give you another Helper (person #3) that He/Person #3 will be with you forever." The definition of the word "another." used to refer to an additional person or thing as the same type as one (or in this case as two) persons already mentioned.

In conclusion, you have wrongly isolated only God the Father as being in transcendence when God as one being (as the article indicates) is wholly transcendent.

IN GOD THE SON,
james

Thanks for the reply. I will be posting separate threads on the different topics you presented. But I have already met my quota for today so I will post them another day.

But I have a couple questions concerning this statement of yours...

"God the Father cannot be seen, even according to Jesus Christ Himself. The Father has no separate manifestion from the Son. The Son is the only manifestation and revelation of the Father. What is known of the Father is revealed through the Son. To see the Son is to see the essence of the Father."

1) The DIVINE essence of Jesus cannot be seen. TRUE or FALSE?

If you say True...

2) "To SEE the Son" means to see Jesus' HUMAN essence. TRUE or FALSE?

If you say True...

3) To see Jesus' human essence is to see the essence of the Father. TRUE or FALSE?

Remember, YOU said "To see the Son is to see the essence of the Father."
 
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