Jesus Is The Father

[Caroljeen]

Did Jesus father any children, for him to earn the Father title?

Are you asking me or @seventh day?

 

[Lee Magee]

In Christianity celibate priests are Father, so maybe they don't understand how babies are made.

 

[Caroljeen]

@SeventhDay

Does the quote from Jason Dulle below help as a Oneness explanation of the distinction between Father and Son?

"First, let me make it clear that oneness theology does not maintain a "Jesus Only" view of God, wherein any distinction (which is different than separation) between the Father and Son is denied. Truly oneness theology confesses a distinction. This is not the same as Trinitarianism, however. Trinitarianism teaches three eternal persons within the one essence of the Godhead. Oneness theology, however, sees God as uni-personal. We do not see any personal distinctions within God's essence, and admit a personal distinction only between the Father and Son, not between the Father, Son, and Spirit. Secondly, the Oneness understanding of the personal distinction between Father and Son is not an eternal distinction of persons prior to the incarnation. Oneness theology understands the personal distinction as arising only after the incarnation when the one uni-personal God, YHWH, Himself became a man, acquiring a genuine human existence/consciousness. So whereas the Trinitarian distinction is eternal and unrelated to the incarnation, in Oneness theology the distinction is temporal and exclusively bound up in the incarnation.

Oneness theology recognizes that when God took to Himself a human identity/existence, a distinction arose. Such a distinction is not a distinction between divine persons in the Godhead (Trinitarianism), but between God's existence apart from the incarnation and God's existence in the incarnation (Oneness theology). When God became a man, He did not cease being God. When God became incarnated in a human existence, God did not cease to inhabit the heavens. God now exists both in the incarnation as a genuine human being, and yet continues to exist beyond the incarnation. Biblically this distinction is maintained by the Father/Son distinction. As God exists apart from and beyond the incarnation He is referred to as "Father." As God exists in the incarnation He is referred to as "Son" or "Jesus Christ." This does not make two persons in the Godhead, but makes a distinction between the one uni-personal (as opposed to tri-personal as in Trinitarian thought) God's existence apart from the incarnation and in the incarnation with a genuine human existence. To reiterate, the distinction between the Father and Son is a distinction that arose in the incarnation because of the addition of humanity to God's previously unmitigated existence as exclusive Spirit."

Jesus: The Visible God

onenesspentecostal.com

 

[SeventhDay]

@SeventhDay

Does the quote from Jason Dulle below help as a Oneness explanation of the distinction between Father and Son?

"First, let me make it clear that oneness theology does not maintain a "Jesus Only" view of God, wherein any distinction (which is different than separation) between the Father and Son is denied. Truly oneness theology confesses a distinction. This is not the same as Trinitarianism, however. Trinitarianism teaches three eternal persons within the one essence of the Godhead. Oneness theology, however, sees God as uni-personal. We do not see any personal distinctions within God's essence, and admit a personal distinction only between the Father and Son, not between the Father, Son, and Spirit. Secondly, the Oneness understanding of the personal distinction between Father and Son is not an eternal distinction of persons prior to the incarnation. Oneness theology understands the personal distinction as arising only after the incarnation when the one uni-personal God, YHWH, Himself became a man, acquiring a genuine human existence/consciousness. So whereas the Trinitarian distinction is eternal and unrelated to the incarnation, in Oneness theology the distinction is temporal and exclusively bound up in the incarnation.

Oneness theology recognizes that when God took to Himself a human identity/existence, a distinction arose. Such a distinction is not a distinction between divine persons in the Godhead (Trinitarianism), but between God's existence apart from the incarnation and God's existence in the incarnation (Oneness theology). When God became a man, He did not cease being God. When God became incarnated in a human existence, God did not cease to inhabit the heavens. God now exists both in the incarnation as a genuine human being, and yet continues to exist beyond the incarnation. Biblically this distinction is maintained by the Father/Son distinction. As God exists apart from and beyond the incarnation He is referred to as "Father." As God exists in the incarnation He is referred to as "Son" or "Jesus Christ." This does not make two persons in the Godhead, but makes a distinction between the one uni-personal (as opposed to tri-personal as in Trinitarian thought) God's existence apart from the incarnation and in the incarnation with a genuine human existence. To reiterate, the distinction between the Father and Son is a distinction that arose in the incarnation because of the addition of humanity to God's previously unmitigated existence as exclusive Spirit."

Jesus: The Visible God

onenesspentecostal.com

Did God become a man? Did God become a God-man? Was the Son of God always eternal with God? In which way was the Word who is God made flesh? God taking on a human form does not make God human. It is actually God being revealed in a human person as the son of man. Now, how do we see God through the son of man when Jesus says that the Father and the Son are one? Is Jesus referring to the Son of God and the Father or is he referring to the son of man and the Father? Was Jesus as the son of man eternal with the Father or as the Son of God? When Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the Father who is referred to? Is it the son of man and the Father or the Son of God and the Father. Who is Jesus ascending to the Father as the son of man or the Son of God?

It is clear that the Word was made flesh, which is God in expression in human form, but God is Spirit in the son of man but is God human? Now, where do Father and Son fit as the Word thar was made flesh? God is the Word, and the Word is the one God. Are we seeing two God persons or are we seeing God as a Father in a loving relationship with the Son? Are these interchangeable roles of the one God who is Spirit? It is the son of man that is joined to one Spirit and God is Spirit as the Father and the Son.

How does God see himself? How God sees himself is how we are to see God? Now, is God one self or more than one self? If God is a singular self, then how do we see the Father and the Son? It is clear that the Father is God so then how can the Son be God if God is a singular self? There is a distinction between Father and Son but son of man is an entirely different matter!

We have to understand that God is a plurality in a unified Father and Son relationship, but God is a singular self.

Does God see himself as two separate entities or two selves?

Does God see himself having a plurality of roles in himself?

How do we define a person or self? Is a person or self singular or not?

Now, how do we see Jesus if Jesus is God?

Is God the Father and is Jesus?

Is God the Son of God and Is Jesus?

Is God the Son of man and is Jesus?

Can God who is Spirit be a human and man? If so, how do we define God and define a human person?

Understanding God having roles whether human roles or spiritual roles does not change God's nature or person (self) does it?

Now, God being Father and a Father to the Son and God being a Son in relationship with the Father does not make God two separate persons? Also, God taking on the role of the son of man does not make God human either. In fact, it is God in the role of the Son of God who is made flesh yet the Son is in God (Father) and God ( Father) in the Son. Thus, the Son of God made flesh includes Father and the Son and we see that in John 1:14,18.

God has a plurality of roles in himself does not change who God is, his nature or is attributes and God is still one self or person.

Jesus is God in three roles which are Father, Son and man but God roles are not limited to three!

God bless you.

 

[SeventhDay]

@SeventhDay

Regarding the title of this thread, what I can affirm is that Jesus is the name of the Father. Matt 28:19

I can affirm that the person of Father and the person of the Son, and the person of the Spirit are numerically the same divine person and there is one divine person.

I would affirm that the holy child which was conceived by the Spirit and born by Mary was called Jesus, the Son of God at birth. Luke 1:38
The Son did not preexist as the Son, but simply as the one divine person of God.

I would not affirm that the Son is the Father. So if the title of your thread in your mind means that Jesus the Son is the Father, I would disagree.

The Son of God pre-existed with the Father and is eternal. The son of man with a human birth and conceived of the Holy Spirit was called the Son of God does not make the son of man eternal but the Son of God is eternal in the Now and has no beginning or ending.

Jesus is God and he is the Father, but he is the son of man and the Son of God as well, yet God is a singular person. We need to understand how this is so without negating any scriptures.

How can a son (Son) be a Father? However, God can be both but how?

God bless you.

 

[SeventhDay]

no

Jesus is God therefore he is the Father but how is that so?

 

[SeventhDay]

A Trinitarian is one who believes there are three persons who are the same God. A Unitarian is therefore one who believes there is one person who is God. Do you think God is not personal, aka Pantheism? Do you think there are multiple Gods, aka Polytheism? Do you think there are multiple persons who are God, like in Trinitarianism? Or, do you think there is only one person who is God? If you agree to the last, then you are by definition Unitarian, whether or not others use that term for themselves.



In reality, John 1:1-3 teaches Trinitarianism, and Isaiah 44:24 doesn't touch on the topic.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:1-3​

So, this Word was with God, was God and made all things. Notice in one sense, this Word is God, and in another, this Word isn't God, but with God. Therefore, multiple persons, given the use of personal pronouns, who are the same God. No "the Same One God person". You read "the Same One God person" into both passages. That's why I said, "You are just assuming your theology". "the Same One God person" isn't in either text. You added it.

Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: “I am the LORD, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself, Isaiah 44:24​

So, what is this saying? The one God made everything alone. Given that in the Trinity the Father, Son, and Spirit are the same God, no issues here. The one God made everything in both perspectives without any help form any other being. Also, the Trinity was revealed in the incarnation of the Son and in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Since Isaiah 44:24 is prior to this perspective, there is no reason to think this verse is purposefully arguing against Trinitarianism. It's arguing against polytheism, and since we are not polytheists, it doesn't apply to us.

God Bless

??????

God is one soul or self therefore he cannot be three selves. Got it?

God can be the Father, the Son and the Spirit personified as God in action but not three selves! How is this so? The trinity doctrine is an invented doctrine filled with contradictions. One does not equal three, but one can be a plurality of roles within himself. A bowl can contain many fruits of the same and diverse kinds, but fruits are not the bowl!

God bless you.

 

[SeventhDay]

Did Jesus father any children, for him to earn the Father title?

I would say that Jesus is the personal name for God the Father because what is more personal than a Savior who reconciles us back to the Father.

Jesus is the Son of God which means that God is a plurality of roles including the son of man.

God having personal roles with in himself is how God operates just like the Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father which are personal roles of God. However, God is not three selves!

How God begets Sons is interesting but eternal Sons are not begotten but have always existed eternally with the Father. They may proceed from God but that is not being eternally begotten.

God begets Sons out of the sons of men who are preexistent Sons who are not begotten. Do you find that confusing? How God operates is a mystery until God reveals what he is doing!

God bless you.

 

[DoctrinesofGraceBapt]

A Trinitarian is one who believes there are three persons who are the same God. A Unitarian is therefore one who believes there is one person who is God. Do you think God is not personal, aka Pantheism? Do you think there are multiple Gods, aka Polytheism? Do you think there are multiple persons who are God, like in Trinitarianism? Or, do you think there is only one person who is God? If you agree to the last, then you are by definition Unitarian, whether or not others use that term for themselves.

In reality, John 1:1-3 teaches Trinitarianism, and Isaiah 44:24 doesn't touch on the topic.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:1-3
So, this Word was with God, was God and made all things. Notice in one sense, this Word is God, and in another, this Word isn't God, but with God. Therefore, multiple persons, given the use of personal pronouns, who are the same God. No "the Same One God person". You read "the Same One God person" into both passages. That's why I said, "'[You are just assuming your theology'. 'the Same One God person' isn't in either text. You added it."

Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: “I am the LORD, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself, Isaiah 44:24
So, what is this saying? The one God made everything alone. Given that in the Trinity the Father, Son, and Spirit are the same God, no issues here. The one God made everything in both perspectives without any help form any other being. Also, the Trinity was revealed in the incarnation of the Son and in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Since Isaiah 44:24 is prior to this perspective, there is no reason to think this verse is purposefully arguing against Trinitarianism. It's arguing against polytheism, and since we are not polytheists, it doesn't apply to us.

??????
God is one soul or self therefore he cannot be three selves. Got it?

Nice assertion. Scripture doesn't say or teach that, and I see no logical reason to accept that. So, I'll pass on your assertion. FYI, I did quote Scripture. Are you going to deal with Scripture?

God can be the Father, the Son and the Spirit personified as God in action but not three selves! How is this so? The trinity doctrine is an invented doctrine filled with contradictions. One does not equal three, but one can be a plurality of roles within himself. A bowl can contain many fruits of the same and diverse kinds, but fruits are not the bowl!

More assertions? Why are you not going to Scripture to justify your claims? I did, and you ignored it. What does that say about the foundation of our perspectives?

FYI, no one is saying one = three. Such is a fundamental misunderstanding of Trinitarianism. Your argument, if valid, would reject: one yard = three feet. Does that seem rational? We say One God in three persons, and some how the units disappear and you get 1=3. Maybe, you should stop jumping to such irrational arguments.

God Bless

 

[SeventhDay]

Nice assertion. Scripture doesn't say or teach that, and I see no logical reason to accept that. So, I'll pass on your assertion. FYI, I did quote Scripture. Are you going to deal with Scripture?



More assertions? Why are you not going to Scripture to justify your claims? I did, and you ignored it. What does that say about the foundation of our perspectives?

FYI, no one is saying one = three. Such is a fundamental misunderstanding of Trinitarianism. Your argument, if valid, would reject: one yard = three feet. Does that seem rational? We say One God in three persons, and some how the units disappear and you get 1=3. Maybe, you should stop jumping to such irrational arguments.

God Bless

One God in three persons or three persons in one God is not confusing but the trinity doctrine is!

Now to confirm your statement: Jesus said that he was in the Father and the Father was in him and we know the Spirit was in the son of man. Jesus also said The Father and he was one. God is one therefore we see that God is a plurality but is it of persons called God or personal roles each distinct from the Father who is God?

If God is called the Father, then the Son is not God. If God is called the Father, then the son of man is not God. If the son of God is the Son of God, then how can the son of man be the Son of God? However, Jesus is all three but not three persons! Personal roles, yes, three selves, no!

God bless you.

 

[e v e 21]

Jesus is God therefore he is the Father but how is that so?

Christ is God’s son

 

[SeventhDay]

Christ is God’s son

Jesus and the anointed one are different terms. God has many sons so which son are you referring too?

Jesus is God does not mean that the Son of God is God because God is the Father.

Jesus means Yah saves and we know that it is God that saves, and God did that through the Son of God that was in the Father.

 

[Caroljeen]

Did God become a man?

yes, Jn 1:14

Did God become a God-man?

It depends on what you mean by "God-man".

Was the Son of God always eternal with God?

Only in his plans.

In which way was the Word who is God made flesh?

How was the Word made flesh? He was conceived in the womb of Mary by the HS.

God taking on a human form does not make God human.

What does it make him?

It is actually God being revealed in a human person as the son of man.

I'm not sure what you mean.

Now, how do we see God through the son of man when Jesus says that the Father and the Son are one?

The same one divine person in two different modes of existence, Spirit (Father) and Human (Son).

Is Jesus referring to the Son of God and the Father or is he referring to the son of man and the Father?

I'm not sure what you are asking me. Jesus is the name of the Father, Son, and HS. Matt 28:19
The man, Jesus Christ, is the Son of God by conception of the HS and Son of man by conception of Mary.

Was Jesus as the son of man eternal with the Father or as the Son of God?

Neither, Jesus prexisted his incarnation as God (neither Father nor Son). The titles Father and Son came about because of the incarnation. God was not a Father or Son before the incarnation except as a Father to creation, the nation of Israel, and the kings of Israel/Judah.

When Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the Father who is referred to?

Jesus is speaking of himself.

Is it the son of man and the Father or the Son of God and the Father.

Neither, Jesus is speaking of himself. He is the express image of God. Heb 1:1-3. If you read the article by Dulle, you would not be asking me this question.

Who is Jesus ascending to the Father as the son of man or the Son of God?

Jesus is both the son of man and the Son of God. Both titles apply to him.

It is clear that the Word was made flesh, which is God in expression in human form, but God is Spirit in the son of man but is God human?

Yes, God became a human.
Heb 2:17 Therefore he had to become like his brothers and sisters in every respect, NRSVUE
Heb 2:17 For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way. NIV

Now, where do Father and Son fit as the Word thar was made flesh?

The Son is the Word that was made flesh.
The Father was in the Son as an indwelling only.

Luke 1:35 The angel said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be holy; he will be called Son of God.

John 14:10-11 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, but if you do not, then believe because of the works themselves.

God is the Word, and the Word is the one God. Are we seeing two God persons or are we seeing God as a Father in a loving relationship with the Son?

We are seeing one God in two distinct modes of existence, as Father and as the Son in a loving relationship.

Are these interchangeable roles of the one God who is Spirit?

What do you mean by "interchangeable roles'?

It is the son of man that is joined to one Spirit and God is Spirit as the Father and the Son.

Please define what you mean by "son of man".
Please define what you mean by "joined".
Please define what you mean by "God is Spirit as the Father and the Son".

How does God see himself? How God sees himself is how we are to see God? Now, is God one self or more than one self?

One self. He defines himself as one self throughout the entire OT.

If God is a singular self, then how do we see the Father and the Son?

I understand the Father and Son each to be a distinct manifestation or mode of the one singular divine self.

It is clear that the Father is God so then how can the Son be God if God is a singular self? There is a distinction between Father and Son but son of man is an entirely different matter!

The Son of God and the Son of man are the same person, God in human form.

Below is from the link I gave in you my post above. Please read it and consider it. It is well written and easy to understand.

" Oneness theology, however, sees God as uni-personal. We do not see any personal distinctions within God's essence, and admit a personal distinction only between the Father and Son, not between the Father, Son, and Spirit. Secondly, the Oneness understanding of the personal distinction between Father and Son is not an eternal distinction of persons prior to the incarnation. Oneness theology understands the personal distinction as arising only after the incarnation when the one uni-personal God, YHWH, Himself became a man, acquiring a genuine human existence/consciousness. So whereas the Trinitarian distinction is eternal and unrelated to the incarnation, in Oneness theology the distinction is temporal and exclusively bound up in the incarnation.

Oneness theology recognizes that when God took to Himself a human identity/existence, a distinction arose. Such a distinction is not a distinction between divine persons in the Godhead (Trinitarianism), but between God's existence apart from the incarnation and God's existence in the incarnation (Oneness theology). When God became a man, He did not cease being God. When God became incarnated in a human existence, God did not cease to inhabit the heavens. God now exists both in the incarnation as a genuine human being, and yet continues to exist beyond the incarnation. Biblically this distinction is maintained by the Father/Son distinction. As God exists apart from and beyond the incarnation He is referred to as "Father." As God exists in the incarnation He is referred to as "Son" or "Jesus Christ." This does not make two persons in the Godhead, but makes a distinction between the one uni-personal (as opposed to tri-personal as in Trinitarian thought) God's existence apart from the incarnation and in the incarnation with a genuine human existence. To reiterate, the distinction between the Father and Son is a distinction that arose in the incarnation because of the addition of humanity to God's previously unmitigated existence as exclusive Spirit." Jason Dulle, The Visible God

part 1 (due to too many characters)

 

[SeventhDay]

yes, Jn 1:14

It depends on what you mean by "God-man".

Only in his plans.

How was the Word made flesh? He was conceived in the womb of Mary by the HS.

What does it make him?

I'm not sure what you mean.

The same one divine person in two different modes of existence, Spirit (Father) and Human (Son).

I'm not sure what you are asking me. Jesus is the name of the Father, Son, and HS. Matt 28:19
The man, Jesus Christ, is the Son of God by conception of the HS and Son of man by conception of Mary.

Neither, Jesus prexisted his incarnation as God (neither Father nor Son). The titles Father and Son came about because of the incarnation. God was not a Father or Son before the incarnation except as a Father to creation, the nation of Israel, and the kings of Israel/Judah.

Jesus is speaking of himself.

Neither, Jesus is speaking of himself. He is the express image of God. Heb 1:1-3. If you read the article by Dulle, you would not be asking me this question.

Jesus is both the son of man and the Son of God. Both titles apply to him.

Yes, God became a human.
Heb 2:17 Therefore he had to become like his brothers and sisters in every respect, NRSVUE
Heb 2:17 For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way. NIV



The Son is the Word that was made flesh.
The Father was in the Son as an indwelling only.

Luke 1:35 The angel said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be holy; he will be called Son of God.

John 14:10-11 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, but if you do not, then believe because of the works themselves.

We are seeing one God in two distinct modes of existence, as Father and as the Son in a loving relationship.

What do you mean by "interchangeable roles'?

Please define what you mean by "son of man".
Please define what you mean by "joined".
Please define what you mean by "God is Spirit as the Father and the Son".

One self. He defines himself as one self throughout the entire OT.

I understand the Father and Son each to be a distinct manifestation or mode of the one singular divine self.

The Son of God and the Son of man are the same person, God in human form.

Below is from the link I gave in you my post above. Please read it and consider it. It is well written and easy to understand.

" Oneness theology, however, sees God as uni-personal. We do not see any personal distinctions within God's essence, and admit a personal distinction only between the Father and Son, not between the Father, Son, and Spirit. Secondly, the Oneness understanding of the personal distinction between Father and Son is not an eternal distinction of persons prior to the incarnation. Oneness theology understands the personal distinction as arising only after the incarnation when the one uni-personal God, YHWH, Himself became a man, acquiring a genuine human existence/consciousness. So whereas the Trinitarian distinction is eternal and unrelated to the incarnation, in Oneness theology the distinction is temporal and exclusively bound up in the incarnation.

Oneness theology recognizes that when God took to Himself a human identity/existence, a distinction arose. Such a distinction is not a distinction between divine persons in the Godhead (Trinitarianism), but between God's existence apart from the incarnation and God's existence in the incarnation (Oneness theology). When God became a man, He did not cease being God. When God became incarnated in a human existence, God did not cease to inhabit the heavens. God now exists both in the incarnation as a genuine human being, and yet continues to exist beyond the incarnation. Biblically this distinction is maintained by the Father/Son distinction. As God exists apart from and beyond the incarnation He is referred to as "Father." As God exists in the incarnation He is referred to as "Son" or "Jesus Christ." This does not make two persons in the Godhead, but makes a distinction between the one uni-personal (as opposed to tri-personal as in Trinitarian thought) God's existence apart from the incarnation and in the incarnation with a genuine human existence. To reiterate, the distinction between the Father and Son is a distinction that arose in the incarnation because of the addition of humanity to God's previously unmitigated existence as exclusive Spirit." Jason Dulle, The Visible God

part 1 (due to too many characters)

Joined to one Spirit means that a human spirit becomes part of the divine Spirit, so I ask is man human anymore when he becomes a son of God. Is Jesus still in the flesh in heaven with God?

2Co 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Becoming a new creation is a spiritual creation not a human one but is joined to God's Spirit and is of the Spirit not the flesh. The church body is of the Spirit because it is joined to one Spirit.

The kingdom of God has nothing to do with the flesh or anything to do with the earth. Adam was formed from the dust of the earth.

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly

Scriptures teach that the old Adam is dead in Christ death therefore God is dealing with a new spiritual creation because Jesus rose out of death as a quickening Spirit! All who are awaked out of death are spiritually alive in Christ and are joined to his Spirit which is the Spirit of God.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

The kingdom of God has nothing to do with the flesh and a human is flesh! Jesus is the Son of God and not a human flesh man in heaven with the Father!

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

The son of man is a sign of the Son of God who is always with the Father and we in Christ are signs too.

It is important to understand that the Son of God is eternal in God the Father and came to earth as the son of man. Jesus said in him is eternal life and eternal life has no beginning and end. If Jesus as the Son of God did not exist eternally in the Father, then God did not send the Son of God into the world who is the express image of God as the son of man.

God is singular but is a plurality and that includes Father in relationship with the Son and in Christ there are many sons of God.

God manifest himself in many ways as real personal roles of God but is one singular self.

God bless you.

 

[Caroljeen]

Part 2

We have to understand that God is a plurality in a unified Father and Son relationship, but God is a singular self.

A plurality of what?

Does God see himself as two separate entities or two selves?

One self in two distinct modes of existence.

Does God see himself having a plurality of roles in himself?

Imo, No. God is not acting or pretending.

How do we define a person or self? Is a person or self singular or not?

The person or self is the "I". It is singular. I believe the self is our soul/spirit.

Now, how do we see Jesus if Jesus is God?

Jesus is God existing as a human.

Is God the Father and is Jesus?

God is both Father and Son.

Is God the Son of God and Is Jesus?

Jesus is God in the form of a male human who was born of Mary.
The word, son, means a male offspring or descendent.

Is God the Son of man and is Jesus?

What do you think is meant by Son of God and Son of man?

Can God who is Spirit be a human and man?

Yes, God who is a Spirit became flesh/human. John 1:14

If so, how do we define God and define a human person?

God is the eternal Spirit. God is one person.
A human person is the inner spiritual aspect of a man, in other words, the soul/spirit.

Understanding God having roles whether human roles or spiritual roles does not change God's nature or person (self) does it?

I don't agree that God has roles. Son is not a role. Father is not a role. God is not acting.

Now, God being Father and a Father to the Son and God being a Son in relationship with the Father does not make God two separate persons?

No, it doesn't make God into 2 separate persons though that is how trinitarians might understand it.

Also, God taking on the role of the son of man does not make God human either. In fact, it is God in the role of the Son of God who is made flesh yet the Son is in God (Father) and God ( Father) in the Son. Thus, the Son of God made flesh includes Father and the Son and we see that in John 1:14,18.

God does not take on roles. God is the Son and God is the Father.

God has a plurality of roles in himself does not change who God is, his nature or is attributes and God is still one self or person.

Jesus is God in three roles which are Father, Son and man but God roles are not limited to three!

I have no idea what you are talking about.
Please define "role".
I disagree that the Father or Son is a "role" or an "office". We should not think of "Father" and "Son" as anything other than what is meant in Luke 1:35.

 

[e v e 21]

Jesus is God therefore he is the Father but how is that so?

He, His Spirit, and Christ, each of them is deity...
and, they are one just as Irenaeus describes...
where Christ and His (feminine) Spirit are His Hands.

 

[SeventhDay]

He, His Spirit, and Christ, each of them is deity...
and, they are one just as Irenaeus describes...
where Christ and His (feminine) Spirit are His Hands.

God who is Father is Spirit and is a single self! Got it?

 

[SeventhDay]

Part 2



A plurality of what?

One self in two distinct modes of existence.

Imo, No. God is not acting or pretending.

The person or self is the "I". It is singular. I believe the self is our soul/spirit.

Jesus is God existing as a human.

God is both Father and Son.

Jesus is God in the form of a male human who was born of Mary.
The word, son, means a male offspring or descendent.

What do you think is meant by Son of God and Son of man?

Yes, God who is a Spirit became flesh/human. John 1:14

God is the eternal Spirit. God is one person.
A human person is the inner spiritual aspect of a man, in other words, the soul/spirit.

I don't agree that God has roles. Son is not a role. Father is not a role. God is not acting.

No, it doesn't make God into 2 separate persons though that is how trinitarians might understand it.

God does not take on roles. God is the Son and God is the Father.

I have no idea what you are talking about.
Please define "role".
I disagree that the Father or Son is a "role" or an "office". We should not think of "Father" and "Son" as anything other than what is meant in Luke 1:35.

If Father or Son is not a role of God then what is it?

God being a Father and Son is a role or else God is two persons. Do you understand that? God having roles does not make God a play actor, but God can be a play actor and in fact is and so are we. It is just that we know not who we are and what roles we have.

The fact that God is a Father means God has a role. Son of God is a role of God and so is the son of man.

God does not change so God did not become a man. God is Spirit and if God was human then God could not be God!

God can have a role of a man(s) which is a human role and the role of the Son of God, but God is Father and is a singular one!

God does not change into something else therefore God takes on a role which is what God did.

God being God and a human is a complete contradiction and thus implies a hybrid. I would not go there like the trinitarians do!

God taking on the form of a human servant in the role of the Son of God is what God did. Yet God is the Father and Father is a role implying the Father has a Son.

God is singular and is all that there is and what is in God are real roles of God who is in a Father and Son relationship.

God is a play actor because he said let us create man in our image which mean God and those in God have roles and creation is the stage for this play. Heaven is also part of this stage. However, all outside of creation is perfect and complete in God!

Please ponder on these things.

God bless you.

 

[101G]

Not saying that anyone is Right or Wrong but consider this.
Isaiah 44:8 "Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any."

God is a single PERSON .... "me" and "I" are single person designations. but in Genesis 1:1 God clearly tells us that he is a plurality of "HIMSELF" and with Isaiah 44:8, and MANY, and I mean MANY other verses eliminates God's plurality in persons. so, that only leaves his "NATURE" yes, of God himself, Spirit. and as Spirit, his plurality is established. in the IDENTIFICATION of Ordinal First/LORD/Father and Ordinal Last/Lord/Son, in TIME, PLACE, ORDER, or RANK. and the identifying scriptures to support this ECHAD of plurality of Ordinal designations is found throughout the bible, especially, in the word/Term "beginning" found in Genesis 1:1, and the Word/Term "ECHAD" found in Deuteronomy 6:4, and also the Word/Term "Form" found in Philippians 2:6 and its root word.

remember, the key is in the plurality of his NATURE, and not in persons. and NO, not two Spirits, because the Greek terms for our English word "ANOTHER" takes care of that in the KNOWING, and UNDERSTANDING of G243 Allos, and its difference from G2087. (Use the Vine dictionary for clear understanding)

101G.

 

[SeventhDay]

Not saying that anyone is Right or Wrong but consider this.
Isaiah 44:8 "Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any."

God is a single PERSON .... "me" and "I" are single person designations. but in Genesis 1:1 God clearly tells us that he is a plurality of "HIMSELF" and with Isaiah 44:8, and MANY, and I mean MANY other verses eliminates God's plurality in persons. so, that only leaves his "NATURE" yes, of God himself, Spirit. and as Spirit, his plurality is established. in the IDENTIFICATION of Ordinal First/LORD/Father and Ordinal Last/Lord/Son, in TIME, PLACE, ORDER, or RANK. and the identifying scriptures to support this ECHAD of plurality of Ordinal designations is found throughout the bible, especially, in the word/Term "beginning" found in Genesis 1:1, and the Word/Term "ECHAD" found in Deuteronomy 6:4, and also the Word/Term "Form" found in Philippians 2:6 and its root word.

remember, the key is in the plurality of his NATURE, and not in persons. and NO, not two Spirits, because the Greek terms for our English word "ANOTHER" takes care of that in the KNOWING, and UNDERSTANDING of G243 Allos, and its difference from G2087. (Use the Vine dictionary for clear understanding)

101G.

The difficulty is that when one considers God as a plurality one must not think in human terms. One sees God as persons but what is complete in God has God's nature but is of the same Spirit and soul as God. God is one singular but as a plurality they are roles of God just as God being a Father is a role. Now, if God has a role of the Father, then can God have other roles of himself? God persons are roles of God because all things originate and end in God. God is the first and the last. All things proceed out of God and come back to him. There is one God, one faith and one Spirit and all that is God is joined to that one Spirit. God is self-existent an all that is complete in God share in God's self-existence. God creating implies that there is a law of circularity which we must come to understand what that means because all comes out of God and returns back to him.

God bless you.