Jesus Is The Father

[DoctrinesofGraceBapt]

That's a confusing sentence for me. "One God in three persons" is the doctrine of the Trinity. How is one confusing and the other not?

It is a plurality of persons given the use of personal pronouns used to distinguish between them in Scripture. You would use "He, You, I" distinctions between different personal roles of one person.

Correct, but God is not called the Father in the NT. The Father is called God. And, the order matters.

Both, the Son of God, and the Son of Man are simply titles referring to Jesus. Stop over thinking this.

Yes, Jesus is all three, and that's utterly inconsequential to the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit being the three persons who are the one God.

BS: Why haven't you interacted with the Scripture I posted?

"Correct, but God is not called the Father in the NT. The Father is called God. And, the order matters."
We see in the NT the plurality of God who is the Father and Jesus calls God his Father.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
1Jn 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
1Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

Not one of these verses say "the plurality of God who is the Father" or even hint anything close to this.

Here it is showing that God is a plurality which is the Echad or God's oneness which is the Father and the Son in relationship.

I have no problem with this statement save adding the Holy Spirit: God's oneness which is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in relationship.

We see more of God's oneness in John chapter 17.
Jesus is "God with us" thus Jesus is God's oneness (Echad) which includes the Father and the Son of God and inherently in the son of man.

You do realize that I don't reject the oneness of God? I reject "the plurality of God who is the Father".

God Bless

BS: Why haven't you interacted with the Scripture I posted?

In reality, John 1:1-3 teaches Trinitarianism, and Isaiah 44:24 doesn't touch on the topic.​

​

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:1-3​

So, this Word was with God, was God and made all things. Notice in one sense, this Word is God, and in another, this Word isn't God, but with God. Therefore, multiple persons, given the use of personal pronouns, who are the same God. No "the Same One God person". You read "the Same One God person" into both passages. That's why I said, "'You are just assuming your theology'. 'the Same One God person' isn't in either text. You added it."​

​

Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: “I am the LORD, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself, Isaiah 44:24​

So, what is this saying? The one God made everything alone. Given that in the Trinity the Father, Son, and Spirit are the same God, no issues here. The one God made everything in both perspectives without any help form any other being. Also, the Trinity was revealed in the incarnation of the Son and in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Since Isaiah 44:24 is prior to this perspective, there is no reason to think this verse is purposefully arguing against Trinitarianism. It's arguing against polytheism, and since we are not polytheists, it doesn't apply to us.​

 

[SeventhDay]

Not one of these verses say "the plurality of God who is the Father" or even hint anything close to this.



I have no problem with this statement save adding the Holy Spirit: God's oneness which is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in relationship.



You do realize that I don't reject the oneness of God? I reject "the plurality of God who is the Father".

God Bless

BS: Why haven't you interacted with the Scripture I posted?

In reality, John 1:1-3 teaches Trinitarianism, and Isaiah 44:24 doesn't touch on the topic.​

​

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:1-3​

So, this Word was with God, was God and made all things. Notice in one sense, this Word is God, and in another, this Word isn't God, but with God. Therefore, multiple persons, given the use of personal pronouns, who are the same God. No "the Same One God person". You read "the Same One God person" into both passages. That's why I said, "'You are just assuming your theology'. 'the Same One God person' isn't in either text. You added it."​

​

Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: “I am the LORD, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself, Isaiah 44:24​

So, what is this saying? The one God made everything alone. Given that in the Trinity the Father, Son, and Spirit are the same God, no issues here. The one God made everything in both perspectives without any help form any other being. Also, the Trinity was revealed in the incarnation of the Son and in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Since Isaiah 44:24 is prior to this perspective, there is no reason to think this verse is purposefully arguing against Trinitarianism. It's arguing against polytheism, and since we are not polytheists, it doesn't apply to us.​

You think the trinity teaching is not polytheistic when it teaches three Gods is one God. That is not oneness but a trinity of Gods. It is more scriptural to teach God's oneness and avoid all confusion. Why is it so hard to see that God has a pluralistic nature and contains in himself participants within himself who share in God's nature and are glorified in him. God did not create them but is what God is who is self-existent.

Yes, God can have real distinct and unified roles as the Father, Son and even the Spirit of God is personified. In fact, God is all that there is, but we must consider what it is that God is. We are members of God joined to one Spirit and belong to the soul of God and God interacts with in himself as roles of himself.

This may seem strange to you, but God is not the same as his creation who God is creating in his image. It is those who are in the original participate in the oneness of God and thus one must understand God's reason for creating when all is complete in God in the Now. In fact. the new creation both heaven and earth are a return to what already is but how that works God will reveal that to us. Examine the first chapter of Ecclesiastes which deals with this and refers to the law of circularity.

Ecc 1:3 What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun?

Ecc 1:4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.

Ecc 1:5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.

Ecc 1:6 The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits.

Ecc 1:7 All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again.

Ecc 1:8 All things are full of labour; man cannot utter it: the eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor the ear filled with hearing.

Ecc 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

Ecc 1:10 Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.

Ecc 1:11 There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.

All comes from out of God and returns back to him. All are roles of God within himself who interact within God, but it is hard for many to see that. God creating out of what is complete in him does not change the fact that God interacts within himself in roles because the self-existent God is all there is and what is within him.

Let us look at the word for create (bara) and its contextual meaning to see what God is actually doing to make a showcase of God's glory and all in God are involved!

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

H1254
בּרא
bârâ'
BDB Definition:
1) to create, shape, form
1a) (Qal) to shape, fashion, create (always with God as subject)
1a1) of heaven and earth
1a2) of individual man
1a3) of new conditions and circumstances
1a4) of transformations
1b) (Niphal) to be created
1b1) of heaven and earth
1b2) of birth
1b3) of something new
1b4) of miracles
1c) (Piel)
1c1) to cut down
1c2) to cut out
2) to be fat
2a) (Hiphil) to make yourselves fat
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: a primitive root

We have to meditate on these things allowing God to spiritually help us understand what God is doing.

God bless you.

 

[SeventhDay]

Not one of these verses say "the plurality of God who is the Father" or even hint anything close to this.



I have no problem with this statement save adding the Holy Spirit: God's oneness which is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in relationship.



You do realize that I don't reject the oneness of God? I reject "the plurality of God who is the Father".

God Bless

BS: Why haven't you interacted with the Scripture I posted?

In reality, John 1:1-3 teaches Trinitarianism, and Isaiah 44:24 doesn't touch on the topic.​

​

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:1-3​

So, this Word was with God, was God and made all things. Notice in one sense, this Word is God, and in another, this Word isn't God, but with God. Therefore, multiple persons, given the use of personal pronouns, who are the same God. No "the Same One God person". You read "the Same One God person" into both passages. That's why I said, "'You are just assuming your theology'. 'the Same One God person' isn't in either text. You added it."​

​

Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: “I am the LORD, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself, Isaiah 44:24​

So, what is this saying? The one God made everything alone. Given that in the Trinity the Father, Son, and Spirit are the same God, no issues here. The one God made everything in both perspectives without any help form any other being. Also, the Trinity was revealed in the incarnation of the Son and in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Since Isaiah 44:24 is prior to this perspective, there is no reason to think this verse is purposefully arguing against Trinitarianism. It's arguing against polytheism, and since we are not polytheists, it doesn't apply to us.​

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:1-3
So, this Word was with God, was God and made all things. Notice in one sense, this Word is God, and in another, this Word isn't God, but with God. Therefore, multiple persons, given the use of personal pronouns, who are the same God. No "the Same One God person". You read "the Same One God person" into both passages. That's why I said, "'You are just assuming your theology'. 'the Same One God person' isn't in either text. You added it."

Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: “I am the LORD, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself, Isaiah 44:24
So, what is this saying? The one God made everything alone. Given that in the Trinity the Father, Son, and Spirit are the same God, no issues here. The one God made everything in both perspectives without any help form any other being. Also, the Trinity was revealed in the incarnation of the Son and in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Since Isaiah 44:24 is prior to this perspective, there is no reason to think this verse is purposefully arguing against Trinitarianism. It's arguing against polytheism, and since we are not polytheists, it doesn't apply to us.

With and was God refers to the oneness of God as a plurality of unified roles of God in a Father and Son relationship. You call it persons and I call it personal roles. However, the trinity calls it three Gods that are one God which is the cause of confusion. Personal roles of God and God persons seem correct on the surface, but it can be misleading, and I have dealt a little with this in my other post.

Consider that when God made Adam who was singular God made a division or separation by creating Eve out of Adam and thus, we have separate souls but with God it is one soul and when one returns back to God in completeness there will no division or separation. It will be like this:

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

There is a reason that God made a separation in Adam but it is not so in the second Adam who will be sons of God.

Does not God say through Adam:

Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Paul explains this allegory that it refers to the Church and it is a reference to the bridegroom and the bride of Christ.

God made all things but those complete in God participated with God who is the Father.

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Now if those with God created man after their likeness (distintions in the plurality of God) which is a deep subject within itself it is possible they participated with God in all of his creation.

I would say that God's oneness was revealed in the birth of the son of man which is a role of God and Father and Son participated in that.

In a plurality of unified roles of God there are distinctions which is Father and Son therefore God in expression as a plurality. The Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Father or there would be no distinctions. Father and Son are not the same.

Isa 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

This does not exclude the singular God as a plurality and any other creator not in this plurality would be polytheistic. However, the way that the trinity doctrine is taught as three God persons which is three Gods is polytheistic. However, you present it more accurately than some others do.

God bless you.

 

[101G]

Who proclaims your claim in the New Testament? No one in scripture identifies Jesus as the Father...Over 200 times Jesus is refered to as the SON...Hebrews 3:6...But Christ as a SON over his own house; whose house are we...Father Jesus does not exist...Jesus refered to the Father as HE, HIM, but not ME...The Father does not proclaim...I am my beloved SON in whom I am well pleased.

first thanks for the reply, second, Jesus in flesh is Son, but is he in "NATURAL" flesh now? ....... no, Spirit, per John 17:3-5

Father Jesus does not exist...Jesus refered to the Father as HE, HIM, but not ME

Let's see if what you said is true. ME is "MY", who is HIM/HE. scripture, the Lord Jesus speaking, Revelation 3:12 "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name."

so POG, who name did he write? A. my God, (which is Him), or B. (my Name, (Which is him). hint ,,,,,,,,, you cannot lose in either choice. see how GRACIOUS God, and 101G is in a no-fault, all win answer? one cannot get the answer wrong. ......... (smile). YIKES!

READ the verse again and then answer, the world is watching and waiting for your answer. who name did God, the Lord Jesus write?

I can't wait to hear this answer,,,,,,, from the The-Plural-One-God.

 

[DoctrinesofGraceBapt]

Not one of these verses say "the plurality of God who is the Father" or even hint anything close to this.

I have no problem with this statement save adding the Holy Spirit: God's oneness which is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in relationship.

You do realize that I don't reject the oneness of God? I reject "the plurality of God who is the Father".

BS: Why haven't you interacted with the Scripture I posted?...

You think the trinity teaching is not polytheistic when it teaches three Gods is one God.

We don't teach "three Gods is one God." So, no problem.

That is not oneness but a trinity of Gods. It is more scriptural to teach God's oneness and avoid all confusion. Why is it so hard to see that God has a pluralistic nature and contains in himself participants within himself who share in God's nature and are glorified in him. God did not create them but is what God is who is self-existent.

"participants within himself" is okay but "persons who are God" isn't? Wow?

Yes, God can have real distinct and unified roles as the Father, Son and even the Spirit of God is personified. In fact, God is all that there is, but we must consider what it is that God is. We are members of God joined to one Spirit and belong to the soul of God and God interacts with in himself as roles of himself.

This may seem strange to you, but God is not the same as his creation who God is creating in his image. It is those who are in the original participate in the oneness of God and thus one must understand God's reason for creating when all is complete in God in the Now. In fact. the new creation both heaven and earth are a return to what already is but how that works God will reveal that to us.

You do realize that you're not arguing against Trinitarianism?

"It is those who are in the original participate in the oneness of God" That's Trinitarianism.

Examine the first chapter of Ecclesiastes which deals with this and refers to the law of circularity.
Ecc 1:3 What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun?
...
Ecc 1:11 There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.

All comes from out of God and returns back to him. All are roles of God within himself who interact within God, but it is hard for many to see that. God creating out of what is complete in him does not change the fact that God interacts within himself in roles because the self-existent God is all there is and what is within him.

Dude, you are a Trinitarian. You just don't know that's the name of the position you hold. You literally sound like a Trinitarian desert Monk form the 2nd or 3rd century.

Let us look at the word for create (bara) and its contextual meaning to see what God is actually doing to make a showcase of God's glory and all in God are involved!
...
We have to meditate on these things allowing God to spiritually help us understand what God is doing.

Okay.

God Bless

 

[DoctrinesofGraceBapt]

Why haven't you interacted with the Scripture I posted?

In reality, John 1:1-3 teaches Trinitarianism, and Isaiah 44:24 doesn't touch on the topic.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:1-3
So, this Word was with God, was God and made all things. Notice in one sense, this Word is God, and in another, this Word isn't God, but with God. Therefore, multiple persons, given the use of personal pronouns, who are the same God. No "the Same One God person". You read "the Same One God person" into both passages. That's why I said, "'You are just assuming your theology'. 'the Same One God person' isn't in either text. You added it."

Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: “I am the LORD, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself, Isaiah 44:24
So, what is this saying? The one God made everything alone. Given that in the Trinity the Father, Son, and Spirit are the same God, no issues here. The one God made everything in both perspectives without any help form any other being. Also, the Trinity was revealed in the incarnation of the Son and in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Since Isaiah 44:24 is prior to this perspective, there is no reason to think this verse is purposefully arguing against Trinitarianism. It's arguing against polytheism, and since we are not polytheists, it doesn't apply to us.

With and was God refers to the oneness of God as a plurality of unified roles of God in a Father and Son relationship. You call it persons and I call it personal roles. However, the trinity calls it three Gods that are one God which is the cause of confusion. Personal roles of God and God persons seem correct on the surface, but it can be misleading, and I have dealt a little with this in my other post.

That is a lie. Whoever told you "the trinity calls it three Gods that are one God" was lying. They might have just been repeating a lie they heard, but THAT IS A LIE!!!

Consider that when God made Adam who was singular God made a division or separation by creating Eve out of Adam and thus, we have separate souls but with God it is one soul and when one returns back to God in completeness there will no division or separation. It will be like this:

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Trinitarians do not teach, haven never taught, "division or separation" of the soul/spirit of God. You have been lied to with respect to what you think Trinitarianism teaches.

There is a reason that God made a separation in Adam but it is not so in the second Adam who will be sons of God.
Does not God say through Adam:

Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Paul explains this allegory that it refers to the Church and it is a reference to the bridegroom and the bride of Christ.
God made all things but those complete in God participated with God who is the Father.

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Now if those with God created man after their likeness (distintions in the plurality of God) which is a deep subject within itself it is possible they participated with God in all of his creation.

I would say that God's oneness was revealed in the birth of the son of man which is a role of God and Father and Son participated in that.

In a plurality of unified roles of God there are distinctions which is Father and Son therefore God in expression as a plurality. The Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Father or there would be no distinctions. Father and Son are not the same.

"The Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Father or there would be no distinctions. Father and Son are not the same." = Trinitarianism 101.

Isa 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

This does not exclude the singular God as a plurality and any other creator not in this plurality would be polytheistic. However, the way that the trinity doctrine is taught as three God persons which is three Gods is polytheistic. However, you present it more accurately than some others do.

God bless you.

Again, "as three God persons which is three Gods" is a lie. You have been deceived into believing lies about Trinitarianism.

God Bless

 

[SeventhDay]

We don't teach "three Gods is one God." So, no problem.



"participants within himself" is okay but "persons who are God" isn't? Wow?



You do realize that you're not arguing against Trinitarianism?

"It is those who are in the original participate in the oneness of God" That's Trinitarianism.



Dude, you are a Trinitarian. You just don't know that's the name of the position you hold. You literally sound like a Trinitarian desert Monk form the 2nd or 3rd century.



Okay.

God Bless

Well, it is good that we are in agreement but what matters is what God teaches us and we receive it. Thanks for your input.

God bless you.

 

[SeventhDay]

That is a lie. Whoever told you "the trinity calls it three Gods that are one God" was lying. They might have just been repeating a lie they heard, but THAT IS A LIE!!!



Trinitarians do not teach, haven never taught, "division or separation" of the soul/spirit of God. You have been lied to with respect to what you think Trinitarianism teaches.



"The Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Father or there would be no distinctions. Father and Son are not the same." = Trinitarianism 101.



Again, "as three God persons which is three Gods" is a lie. You have been deceived into believing lies about Trinitarianism.

God Bless

1) God the Father

2) God the Son

3) God the Holy Spirit

How many Gods is that? The trinity doctrine states that it is one God. Do they not know how to add?

Scriptures are clear that the Father is God and the son of man taught that.

God is not a plurality of three Gods! God persons called God is not what the scriptures teach.

God is one person or personal entity which is the Father and is a unified plurality of relationships.

God bless you.

 

[DoctrinesofGraceBapt]

We don't teach "three Gods is one God." So, no problem.

"participants within himself" is okay but "persons who are God" isn't? Wow?

You do realize that you're not arguing against Trinitarianism?
"It is those who are in the original participate in the oneness of God" That's Trinitarianism.

Dude, you are a Trinitarian. You just don't know that's the name of the position you hold. You literally sound like a Trinitarian desert Monk form the 2nd or 3rd century.

Okay.

Well, it is good that we are in agreement but what matters is what God teaches us and we receive it. Thanks for your input.

You're welcome.

That is a lie. Whoever told you "the trinity calls it three Gods that are one God" was lying. They might have just been repeating a lie they heard, but THAT IS A LIE!!!

Trinitarians do not teach, haven never taught, "division or separation" of the soul/spirit of God. You have been lied to with respect to what you think Trinitarianism teaches.

"The Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Father or there would be no distinctions. Father and Son are not the same." = Trinitarianism 101.

Again, "as three God persons which is three Gods" is a lie. You have been deceived into believing lies about Trinitarianism.

1) God the Father

2) God the Son

3) God the Holy Spirit

How many Gods is that?

One. Those are titles used to distinguish between the three "relationships" who are all the same God.

The trinity doctrine states that it is one God. Do they not know how to add?
Scriptures are clear that the Father is God and the son of man taught that.
God is not a plurality of three Gods! God persons called God is not what the scriptures teach.
God is one person or personal entity which is the Father and is a unified plurality of relationships.

We don't teach, we have never taught, "three Gods!" People twist our words to claim we teach what we have never taught and have consistently argued against from day one. When we say person we do not mean "personal entity". Therefore, every reason you have for condemning us is based upon your own misunderstanding of what we are saying.

God Bless

 

[SeventhDay]

You're welcome.



One. Those are titles used to distinguish between the three "relationships" who are all the same God.



We don't teach, we have never taught, "three Gods!" People twist our words to claim we teach what we have never taught and have consistently argued against from day one. When we say person we do not mean "personal entity". Therefore, every reason you have for condemning us is based upon your own misunderstanding of what we are saying.

God Bless

Rather it is how the trinity teachers articulates their doctrine is the problem that makes their doctrine problematic because the doctrine is not what the scriptures teach.

God bless you.

 

[DoctrinesofGraceBapt]

You're welcome.

One. Those are titles used to distinguish between the three "relationships" who are all the same God.

We don't teach, we have never taught, "three Gods!" People twist our words to claim we teach what we have never taught and have consistently argued against from day one. When we say person we do not mean "personal entity". Therefore, every reason you have for condemning us is based upon your own misunderstanding of what we are saying.

Rather it is how the trinity teachers articulates their doctrine is the problem that makes their doctrine problematic because the doctrine is not what the scriptures teach.

Okay. A small minority of people misunderstand our articulation, and that leads to issues. While a large number are built up in the faith by our articulation.

God Bless

 

[SeventhDay]

Okay. A small minority of people misunderstand our articulation, and that leads to issues. While a large number are built up in the faith by our articulation.

God Bless

It is what God spiritually shows us and teaches us that is important. May we always listen to the Spirit of God, brother in Christ!

God bless you.

 

[Our Lord's God]

Jesus Is The Father

Here are reasons why Jesus is the Father. Put on your thinking cap!

1)Jesus is God and God is the Father and one and only Lord God.

2) Jesus is Lord and God is the only Lord therefore Jesus is the Father who is God.

3)Jesus is Yah that saves and God is the Savior and God is the Father therefore Jesus is the Father.

4) God is the life and Jesus had life in himself therefor Jesus is God and is the Father.

5) God is the light and Jesus said that he is the light so Jesus is God and thus is the Father.

6) God is creator but scriptures teach that Jesus is the creator so Jesus is God therefore he is the Father.

7) Jesus is the Word and the Word was God therefore Jesus is the Father

Jesus is given the title "mighty God" and "everlasting Father" there for Jesus is God and God is the Father therefore Jesus is the Father.

9) Jesus said to Phillip if you have seen me you have seen the Father therefore Jesus is the Father.

10) Jesus said "the Father and I are one" therefore Jesus is the Father.

God bless you.

And who is this God of the Lord?


the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (Rom 15:6).

the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (2 Cor 1:3).

The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (2 Cor 11:31).

the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (Eph 1:3).

the God of our Lord Jesus Christ (Eph 1:17).

the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (Col 1:3).

the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Pet 1:3)

 

[SeventhDay]

And who is this God of the Lord?


the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (Rom 15:6).

the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (2 Cor 1:3).

The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (2 Cor 11:31).

the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (Eph 1:3).

the God of our Lord Jesus Christ (Eph 1:17).

the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (Col 1:3).

the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Pet 1:3)

Quite rational discourse when you realize who Jesus is:

1) 1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Now God in the flesh is Jesus who is the son of man and called the Son of God. Now I ask you where is the Father who is God?

This is what Jesus said to Philip: Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Thus, you can include Jesus as the Father who you cannot see but you can see the Son.

2) Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

The Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father thus Jesus includes the Father and the Son who we see but we see not the Father. However, God the Father includes the Son and thus when we see the Son we see God the Father. This means that God is a unified plurality, and we see that in Jesus. It is in the Father who is God we see a Father and Son relationship and we see that in Jesus! God as a Father and Son in a unified relationship is God's oneness and we see this in Jesus.

3) Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Here we see the Word is God who expresses himself as Jesus who is the one God who is a Plurality of the Father and the Son and this is the one God not three Gods! God is a singular one but is expressed as a plurality!

How do we know that the Word who is God is Jesus but includes Father and the Son?

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

This is Jesus but you cannot include the Son and exclude the Father. Why is this? It is because the Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father. It is a plurality and we understand this plurality in Jesus.

Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Now, how do we see God which no man can see. We look to the Son which reveals the Father and the Father is in Jesus! Yes, we see the Father who is God and in fact Jesus and through the Son.

4)
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Again, this is a reference to Jesus who is the Word or God in expression and thus God as the Father is revealed in the Son. Since Jesus is the Word who is God and with God then God who is Father always includes the Son.

4)
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Jesus is spiritual light and is spiritual life and God is Spirit and there is one Spirit not three! Thus, God who is Spirit and is the one Father that we worship who is Spirit then Jesus is God who is the Father but the Son is included as well!

5)
1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

1Jn 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us

1Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

This is an example of God's Oneness, and we see it in the Son as the son of man who is Jesus and is the Word of life and is life and God is manifested in a unified Father and Son relationship.

6) Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Yes, Jesus is God with us and is manifest in the flesh as the son of man and the Son of God and the Father who is God is made manifest!

7) Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

This child born unto us and given to us is Jesus and has the title mighty God and everlasting Father. In fact, Jesus has all the titles including Alpha and Omega.

In conclusion Jesus is the Father as well as the Son and neither Father or Son is separate, and God is one Spirit who is a unified plurality in a Father and Son relationship. This is God's oneness.

God bless you.

 

[SeventhDay]

SeventhDay, check out this article. Let me know you think about it. It's long and has substance that you will have to think about. It might help you understand the distinctions of God (Father, Son, and Spirit) are not roles like in a play. https://www.onenesspentecostal.com/ugstsymposium.htm

However, God and the sons of God are play actors concerning creation but God having eternal roles of himself is not play acting but genuine interacting roles. Also, Jesus as the Son of God is eternal with the Father but the Son of God in the flesh is a human role of God as the son of man pointing to the Father and also to the Son of God with him. God bless you.