Isa cant be Yeshua because Yeshua is God the Son. I dont recognise your Isa
Jesus or Muhammad
- Thread starter dingoling.
- Start date
Clearly studied more than you. I have lived with friends in islamic countries.
Perhaps you could tell me whether you think Jesus is God the Son or whether you believe Islam that He isnt?
He didn't say what you would like Him to have said, but He made it quite clear as you full well know. ie
Matthew 11:27 “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
John 3:35 The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands.
John 10:36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?
John 6:46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.
John 14:7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
Also.. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and[a] is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
John 8:58“Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
So the Yeshua I know is the same as the God of the Bible. I would suggest the Isa you have heard about was from Mohammed who heard a little about Him too.
You might also want to reflect on the fact that some of the NT writers claim to have been with Jesus and seen what He did and heard what He said, and what we get from Mohammed a few centuries later is a revelation just to him that these eyewitnesses weren't telling the truth.
So I demonstrated what I believe by quoting the Biblical testimony of Jesus Christ.
He did think it .. John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. This is from the passage where he testifies to it.
What you have quoted is out of context. Here is the full context..
This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. 10 This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. 11 Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.
God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit, we have only seen God the Son, Yeshua.
So why dont you believe now you have seen what it actually says?
I don't think that Jesus was God. Jesus was the Word of God who became flesh (Jn 1:14). Jesus was the pre-existent son of God. This is what Mahomet denies. He denies God had a son and he denies that the Word of God had "life in himself (John 5:26)."
dingoling.
Well-known member
He was called the son of God. Here are a few verses:
Matthew 14:33, "And those in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”
Mark 1:1, "The beginning of the good news of Jesus Christ, the Son of God."
Luke 1:35, "The angel said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be holy; he will be called Son of God."
John 1:34, "And I myself have seen and have testified that this is the Son of God.”
Romans 1:4, "and was declared to be Son of God with power according to the spirit of holiness by resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord,"
dingoling.
Well-known member
I think the apostles Paul puts if best:
Romans 1:4, "and was declared to be Son of God with power according to the spirit of holiness by resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord,"
Christians have always held that Jesus is God the son, the second person of the blessed Trinity.
Can't you see the absurdity in what you wrote?
Paul in Romans: " declared to be son of God"
You: "God the Son, the second person of the blessed Trinity."
Do you want to know something? You're the reason why Islam exists.
dingoling.
Well-known member
The issue of who Jesus is was debated for years in the early days of the Christian faith. Some claimed Jesus to be man but not God, others proclaimed him to be God and not man and everything in between. The church met in council to settle this issue, among others, in the 3rd or 4th century, I believe, and the church decided that Jesus was fully God and fully man. He was not part God and part man. It also defined the Trinity at one of these councils and it defines God as being one god existing in three coequal, coeternal, consubstantial persons: God the Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ) and God the Holy Spirit— three distinct persons sharing one essence.
sk0rpi0n
Active member
The term "son of God" in the Bible is metaphorical. Not literal. If Jesus was the literal son of God, then it implies Jesus was the descendant of God and that God somehow "fathered" Jesus. Which is absurd because things like fathers, sons and fathering sons are things that humans do.
dingoling.
Well-known member
Here is what the passage says:
John 1:1-18, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through him, and without him not one thing came into being. What has come into being in him was life, and the life was the light of all people.
The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not overcome it. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. He came as a witness to testify to the light, so that all might believe through him. He himself was not the light, but he came to testify to the light. The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world. He was in the world, and the world came into being through him; yet the world did not know him. He came to what was his own, and his own people did not accept him. But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God, who were born, not of blood or of the will of the flesh or of the will of man, but of God. And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of a father’s only son, full of grace and truth.
(John testified to him and cried out, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me ranks ahead of me because he was before me.’”) From his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. The law indeed was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has ever seen God. It is God the only Son, who is close to the Father’s heart, who has made him known."
The first verses describe Jesus as the Word - the Word was in the beginning, and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
Later it says that this Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory.
No. Son of God doesn't imply that God fathered Jesus in any biological sense, although he was born of a virgin, and experienced a miraculous conception. Yet this is not what is meant by son of God. The terms is analogous to other sons of God in the bible. Son of God is one especially favored of God and wielding God's authority. Yet of all these prior sons of God, Jesus was unique.
Jesus said he came down from heaven. Not his human body or human person, but his incorporeal parts (i.e. soul). Originally subsisting as the Word of God, with God, and in the form of God, and one with God (presenting one God), Jesus was sent by God to save the human race by fulfilling the law. After death, and resurrection he went back to God.
sk0rpi0n
Active member
I'm quoting 1John 4:12, which John wrote after Jesus ascended to heaven.
"No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us." (1John 4:12)
Unfortunately that definition of "God" is at variance with scripture, which denotes God as the Father alone (Jesus, Paul, Peter, John, Jude), and the Word and the Holy Spirit as having life in themselves from God, and being of or with God and one with God.
The difference between the biblical trinity and the Greek trinity is that the biblical is strictly hierarchical, with the Father over all, whereas the Greek trinity is de facto communist, in which each "member of the trinity" has exactly one share. This Greek trinity can't be accepted by many people and is close to polytheism. To expect a one-God muslim to credit this is to ask what is unreasonable.
sk0rpi0n
Active member
I agree with that. "Son of God" is a Hebrew idiom. It simply means someone is beloved by God, not that he was divine or God in human form.
Many Christians I meet online say Jesus was the literal son of God (or God the son) who was co-eternal with "The Father" etc. which makes zero sense and has zero biblical basis.
dingoling.
Well-known member
You can have your own opinion on this but the fact remains and will always remain and it will never change, that the tomb of Jesus was empty.