Jesus or Muhammad

BMS

Well-known member
Jesus is a character in a story book. He is not "God the Son". Nor is he a holy prophet.
He is a composit of several gods and heroes.
He is in two different and distinct books with two different claims, which is what I asked you about. One testifies that He is God the Son and the other that he is a Holy Prophet, neither of which you have recognised.
What is your reference story book called?
 

dingoling.

Well-known member
Jesus is a character in a story book. He is not "God the Son". Nor is he a holy prophet.
He is a composit of several gods and heroes.
Well more books have been on this "fictional character" than any other figure in human history.

I guess several of the apostles suffered and died for a fictional character. Why would they do that?
 

Mr Laurier

Well-known member
He is in two different and distinct books with two different claims, which is what I asked you about. One testifies that He is God the Son and the other that he is a Holy Prophet, neither of which you have recognised.
What is your reference story book called?
What reference story book?
 

cjab

Well-known member
I don't know what your definition of honoring Jesus is. But I will point that Jesus has the following titles in Islam:

al-Masih – “The Messiah”
Kalimatullaah – “God’s Word”*
Qawl al-haqq – “sure word”
Ruhun minhu – “a Spirit from Him”*
Nabi – “prophet”

Rasul – meaning “messenger”
Abd Allah – meaning “Servant of God”
Min al-muqareeabin – “among those who are close to God”
Wadjih – “worthy of esteem in this world and the next”
Mubarak – “blessed” as “a source of benefit for others”

(* Note that Jesus being "God's Word" and "Spirit from Him" doesn't indicate divinity).

Looks to me like Jesus is honored greatly in Islam.
Islam also teaches that Jesus is the messiah, who was born of a virgin and that he would return during the end times to defeat the antichrist and establish his rule on earth. So Jesus plays a HUGE role in Islamic eschatology. Name one other religion (besides Christianity) that honors and gives so much importance to Jesus. You can't because there are none.
You repudiate the teaching that Jesus is the "son of God" and "the way the truth and the life." You also make Mahomet, a mere man who died, a superior prophet to Jesus, who was raised from the dead and ascended into heaven.

I don't think Jesus taught a faith only system of belief. He expected his followers to obey the Torah. No doubt Jesus upheld the Torah, but he didn't say "I'm keeping the Law so you don't have to".
Per Paul, "Jesus releases us from the curse of the law." For everyone who doesn't obey the Torah in its "entirety" is cursed, which would include all Gentiles without exception, and as Paul also identified, all Jews too.

But Christians don't keep the Sabbath. And Paul taught the Law no longer applies after Jesus appeared.
They don't have to keep the Sabbath. They can if their conscience obliges them to. But keeping the Sabbath won't absolve from being cursed for not keeping other aspects of the Torah. Only Jesus can redeem from the curse.


But doesn't Christianity have a set of dos and don'ts? Doesn't Christianity prescribe a way of living that's aligned to what God wills? I believe the answer is YES. The only issue is that Christianity lacks the will or means to implement it and punish those who do wrong. If everything is "spiritual" then there's no need to deal with real-world issues. If God wanted people to live by a "spiritual" religion why then did He give the Torah -- a document that covers the political, legal, social, moral aspects of society?
Christians aren't called to be airy-fairy spiritual. They are required to worship God with all their mind, soul, spirit and strength. So this would include the political, legal, social, moral aspects of society.

The issue is that Bible says nothing of Jesus' soul being eternal. In fact, the bible says nothing about the nature of souls and how they were created. But on the basis of verses like "Before me there was no God formed, and after me there shall be none" (Isaiah 43:10) we can conclude that God is the only eternal being and everyone else were created later.
True. God alone is the source of eternal life, but as Jesus pointed out, he has granted that life to his Word also, which dwells at or to or with God in eternity.
 

Mr Laurier

Well-known member
Two questions if I may..
If you had to choose between Jesus and Mohammed, which character do you prefer.
If you had to choose between Christianity and Islam, which do you prefer.
Mohamed is a more interesting character, who most likely existed as ONE historic person. While Jesus appears to be a composite of many gods, heroes, philosophers, and holy men who were known in late iron age grecco-roman Palestine.
If I could have both sit down to dinner, I suspect a very good conversation would happen.

Both religions are decidedly nasty. Christianity permits wine, but prohibits sex. I can live without wine. So in your scenario, I guess I would be choosing islam. Lucky for me, the dark ages are over.
 

BMS

Well-known member
Mohamed is a more interesting character, who most likely existed as ONE historic person. While Jesus appears to be a composite of many gods, heroes, philosophers, and holy men who were known in late iron age grecco-roman Palestine.
If I could have both sit down to dinner, I suspect a very good conversation would happen.

Both religions are decidedly nasty. Christianity permits wine, but prohibits sex. I can live without wine. So in your scenario, I guess I would be choosing islam. Lucky for me, the dark ages are over.
So you would need to find about a bit more about both of them.
For example neither prohibit sex, just limited to appropriate situations, so presumably sex outside a faithful man/woman marriage is important to you.
 

BMS

Well-known member
Mohamed is a more interesting character, who most likely existed as ONE historic person. While Jesus appears to be a composite of many gods, heroes, philosophers, and holy men who were known in late iron age grecco-roman Palestine.
If I could have both sit down to dinner, I suspect a very good conversation would happen.

Both religions are decidedly nasty. Christianity permits wine, but prohibits sex. I can live without wine. So in your scenario, I guess I would be choosing islam. Lucky for me, the dark ages are over.
Having clarified this 'story book' you referred to as the Bible, Jesus is nowhere described as a composite of gods. I cant see what you are being influenced by
 

Mr Laurier

Well-known member
So you would need to find about a bit more about both of them.
For example neither prohibit sex, just limited to appropriate situations, so presumably sex outside a faithful man/woman marriage is important to you.
Marriage is a luxury for land owners
 

Mr Laurier

Well-known member
Having clarified this 'story book' you referred to as the Bible, Jesus is nowhere described as a composite of gods. I cant see what you are being influenced by
Wow. Way to miss the obvious.
Harry Potter novels dont say that Harry Potter is fictional either.
 

BMS

Well-known member
Wow. Way to miss the obvious.
Harry Potter novels dont say that Harry Potter is fictional either.
But Harry Potter novels dont describe Harry Potter as a chinese woman and nor does the Bible describe Jesus as a composite of gods
 
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