Jesus pierced, YHWH pierced.

[Towerwatchman]

Agree with the sentence before the word agree!

God is omnipresent, I thought you held that view too.

If you are to see Oneness Christology, we need to agree to the basics. In your "tapestry" that you described you didn't hold to these basics and so you misstated the Oneness position.

Once we have the Biblical basics, understand that at the incarnation, God's nature didn't change or transform. There was an addition to how God existed as a genuine man, but NOT a taking away or transforming of the nature of God.

Here to summarize:

God is...

Everywhere Present – Jeremiah 23:24; Acts 17:27-28

Invisible – 1 Timothy 6:16

Eternal past and future – 1 Timothy 1:17

Immutable (unchanging) – Malachi 3:6

All knowing (omniscient) – Psalm 139:1-6

Trinitarians have and should agree with this because it is simply the nature of God as described in the Bible. It is important that when we talk about Christology, these fundamental truths of the Bible don't change. That's not so hard. This is not a trick. My point is that Oneness theology has it's foundation in these very basic Biblical principles of God's nature. There shouldn't be anything controversial about anything I've said above.

I can go with that.
But add,the being called God who had three centers of self consciousness possesses the attributes of God and the three centers of self consciousness fully share the being called God. Therefore those attributes also ascribe to the three centers of self consciousness.

 

[Photine]

I can go with that.
But add,the being called God who had three centers of self consciousness possesses the attributes of God and the three centers of self consciousness fully share the being called God. Therefore those attributes also ascribe to the three centers of self consciousness.

Only The Son knows The Father.

 

[Towerwatchman]

Only The Son knows The Father.

Vs plse

 

[Photine]

Vs plse

Matt 11:27 remember?

 

[johnny guitar]

Jesus praised his Father called his Father Lord.

Matthew 11
25At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

He did NOT call His Father His Lord.

 

[Runningman]

He did NOT call His Father His Lord.

Jesus worked for God, did everything God required, even dying for God’s will despite not really wanting to go through with it. Jesus was obedient to God and that’s the height of lordship.

John 17
4I have glorified You on earth by accomplishing the work You gave Me to do.

 

[Towerwatchman]

Matt 11:27 remember?

All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.

If no one knows the father except the son means that only the son has knowledge of the father, then, by the same standard, only the father knows the son , equates to only the father has knowledge of the son.
Following scripture that cannot be possible.
Notice how Jesus places himself equal with God. For just as the father knows everything about Jesus, omniscient, Jesus knows everything of the father. How can aI create being know everything about its creator?
But also knowledge of the father will be revealed to whoever Jesus chooses to reveal Him to.

 

[Andreas]

I can go with that.
But add,the being called God who had three centers of self consciousness possesses the attributes of God and the three centers of self consciousness fully share the being called God. Therefore those attributes also ascribe to the three centers of self consciousness.

Ok thank you. We can agree but on the three centers of consciousness.

With that said, let's try again brief look at what I am saying:

1. When God was manifested in the flesh, God continued to be omnipresent and omnipotent as he always has outside the human body of Jesus Christ. Simultaneously all the fullness of the Godhead dwelled in the Son bodily (Colossians 2:9).
2. Oneness theology goes with JOHN 4:24 and other such scriptures and believe like the Jewish scholars that God is incorporeal, a Spirit being.
3. As an omnipresent Spirit being (Psalm 139), God can communicate through 120 believers on the day of Pentecost as well as abide in every believer on earth today - simultaneously (Acts 2:1-4). The Holy Spirit doesn't jump from one believer to another in rapid, speed of light succession. His abiding is permanent and remains (John 14-16). This is possible because God is omnipresent.

Other than not saying God is three centers of consciousness, would you agree so far with the above points?

 

[Towerwatchman]

Ok thank you. We can agree but on the three centers of consciousness.

With that said, let's try again brief look at what I am saying:

1. When God was manifested in the flesh, God continued to be omnipresent and omnipotent as he always has outside the human body of Jesus Christ. Simultaneously all the fullness of the Godhead dwelled in the Son bodily (Colossians 2:9).

Phil 2 and Jn 1 state that Jesus existed as his own center of self consciousness before the incarnation. So when we said, God was manifested in the flesh, it was Jesus who pre-existed as God , taking on human form now fully God and fully man. The father center self-consciousness never abided in Jesus’ body.

1. Oneness theology goes with JOHN 4:24 and other such scriptures and believe like the Jewish scholars that God is incorporeal, a Spirit being.

Ok

1. As an omnipresent Spirit being (Psalm 139), God can communicate through 120 believers on the day of Pentecost as well as abide in every believer on earth today - simultaneously (Acts 2:1-4). The Holy Spirit doesn't jump from one believer to another in rapid, speed of light succession. His abiding is permanent and remains (John 14-16). This is possible because God is omnipresent.

Ok

Other than not saying God is three centers of consciousness, would you agree so far with the above points?

Your points are vague. So far I can agree but no commitment,

 

[Photine]

All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.

If no one knows the father except the son means that only the son has knowledge of the father, then, by the same standard, only the father knows the son , equates to only the father has knowledge of the son.
Following scripture that cannot be possible.
Notice how Jesus places himself equal with God. For just as the father knows everything about Jesus, omniscient, Jesus knows everything of the father. How can aI create being know everything about its creator?
But also knowledge of the father will be revealed to whoever Jesus chooses to reveal Him to.

Blah blah blah.. no idea what point you're trying to make.

The point Jesus was making is "no third person".. lulz

 

[Fred]

Who is the head of Christ?

You ask a question about 1 Corinthians 11:3, but you ran away when asked twice about two verses in 1 Corinthians 10.

- Jesus Christ is God ( not the TRINITY )!

[cont.] But that said, Jesus is a special kind of Θεόι on earth, distinct from all the others. He is a "monogenes theos" (Jn 1:18 - unredacted).

forums.carm.org

It's obvious why you are called 'Runningman' - you run away from passages which refute your heresy.

Thus, I am to reject you as a heretic (Titus 3:10).

Say 'hello' to being put on my Ignore list.


but for now...

bye

 

[Runningman]

You ask a question about 1 Corinthians 11:3, but you ran away when asked twice about two verses in 1 Corinthians 10.

- Jesus Christ is God ( not the TRINITY )!

[cont.] But that said, Jesus is a special kind of Θεόι on earth, distinct from all the others. He is a "monogenes theos" (Jn 1:18 - unredacted).

forums.carm.org

It's obvious why you are called 'Runningman' - you run away from passages which refute your heresy.

Thus, I am to reject you as a heretic (Titus 3:10).

Say 'hello' to being put on my Ignore list.


but for now...

bye

I forgot about it, but thanks for reminding me, quickly taking a jab at me, then putting me on ignore.

You said:

"Does the "Lord" in 1 Corinthians 8:6 refer to the same Lord in:
1 Corinthians 10:21?
and
1 Corinthians 10:22?"

The answer is obviously no. God is a Lord and Jesus is a Lord. Lord just means master, but it isn't synonymous with God. Someone can be a Lord without being God (it applies to regular people as well) and 1 Corinthians 8:6 makes it crystal clear Jesus and God the Father aren't the same person.

1 Cor. 8:6
6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.

Check what Paul said in Roman's 7:

Rom. 7
24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with my mind I serve the law of God, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

Do you see how this speaks to the instrumentality of Christ? Maybe pointless asking you now that you have me on ignore, but maybe it'll help someone with open ears and open eyes. God bless.

 

[Towerwatchman]

The point Jesus was making is "no third person".. lulz

that is not the point Jesus was making. That’s the conclusion you inject into the text based on your bias view.

 

[Photine]

that is not the point Jesus was making. That’s the conclusion you inject into the text based on your bias view.

Nope.

ONLY The Son knows and reveals The Father, no "third person".

The Son has been entrusted by the Father with everything, your "third person" has been entrusted with.. nothing.

 

[Towerwatchman]

Nope.

ONLY The Son knows and reveals The Father, no "third person".

The Son has been entrusted by the Father with everything, your "third person" has been entrusted with.. nothing.

And how does that equate to no third person.
It does not.

 

[Photine]

And how does that equate to no third person.
It does not.

ONLY The Son knows and reveals The Father. No "third person".

The Son has been entrusted by the Father with everything, your "third person" has been entrusted with NOTHING. No "third person".

 

[Photine]

Eph 1:22-23
22And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

Acts 2:1-4
2When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

Acts 20:28
Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

Eph 1:22 says "God appointed him (Christ) to be head over everything for the church", Jesus said God entrusted everything to Him (Matt 11:27), Acts 28:18 says "the Holy Spirit has made us overseers of the church of God".. it's referring to Christ.

Acts 2:4 "they were all filled with the Holy Spirit".. meaning Christ "who fills everything in every way" (Eph 1:23)..

Whenever it says the Holy Spirit it means Christ. Trinitarians are very wrong.

 

[Jewjitzu]

Jesus pierced, YHWH pierced.

False.

The following was recorded by the Apostle John. At the crucifixion Jesus was pierced through the side with a spear. John identifies this as fulfilled prophecy, by quoting from the prophet Zachariah.

Jn 19:34 But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out. 35 And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you may believe. 36 For these things were done that the Scripture should be fulfilled, “Not one of His bones shall be broken.” 37 And again another Scripture says, “They shall look on Him whom they pierced.”

John is quoting Zech 12:10

Zec 12:10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.

Quite different than John 19:37. Keep in mind Jesus himself testifies God is neither flesh nor blood, Mat 16:17, and that he isn't God either, John 20:17.

Also, Zechariah 12:10 translated is, "...,they will look to me with whom they pierced".

God is neither physical, blood, nor a man, based on Isa 40:18,25; 46:5, where the Hebrew root for likeness damah, is used for the physical, blood, and adam/man.

 

[Towerwatchman]

False.


Quite different than John 19:37.

37 And again another Scripture says, “They shall look on Him whom they pierced.”
You would need to explain this.

Keep in mind Jesus himself testifies God is neither flesh nor blood, Mat 16:17,

17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

The verse does not state that God is not flesh and blood but that flesh and blood [mankind] has not revealed X.

and that he isn't God either, John 20:17.

17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’ ”

Jesus not being God is not the message Jesus is communicating. Rather the relationship between Jesus and God vs. humanity and God. If Jesus is a created being should have addressed it as our God and our Father. Jesus said this because He is God’s Son by nature vs. humanity being God’s children by creation. Being God Jesus has a different relationship with God and the Father than man has. That is why Jesus said ‘my Father and your Father, to my God and your God', and not ‘our Father and our God.
Notice when Jesus said 'Our Father', He did not include Himself in the 'Our'.

Also, Zechariah 12:10 translated is, "...,they will look to me with whom they pierced".

Let's take a little bunny trail.
10 “And I will... then they will look on Me whom they pierced
Whoever 'Me' is, is the same person as 'I'.
Then who is 'I'
12:1 The burden of the word of the Lord against Israel. Thus says the Lord, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him
Both renderings of 'Lord" translate from 'YHWH',
YHWH states that He was pierced.

God is neither physical, blood, nor a man, based on Isa 40:18,25; 46:5, where the Hebrew root for likeness damah, is used for the physical, blood, and adam/man.

I do not disagree, God is Spirit.

Your argument is based of wrong interpretations of Scripture. Also when you disprove anything give an explanation. Unlike others on this forum I do not possess omniscience.

 

[Towerwatchman]

ONLY The Son knows and reveals The Father. No "third person".

Let's text the logic.

ONLY The Son knows and reveals The Father. No "third person."
ONLY John knows and reveals Tom. No 'Frank'.
If X knows and confirms Y one cannot conclude from this that Z does not exist.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

The Son has been entrusted by the Father with everything, your "third person" has been entrusted with NOTHING. No "third person"

Same here.
The Son has been entrusted by the Father with everything, your "third person" has been entrusted with NOTHING. No 'third person.'

The first born has been entrusted by the Father with everything, = no other siblings entrusted =No other siblings.
Since A entrust B with everything, and C-Z entrusted with nothing, therefore C-Z does not exist.