Jesus pierced, YHWH pierced.

You have been addressed on all these topics. You did not post a coherent response but your personal opinion. But keep on posting defeated arguments.
Actually, not.

For the readers sake.
Attributes of God That Jesus Has.
Well to start, God doesn't have flesh. You forgot that one.

Omnipresent

Mt 28:20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
Yep, in thought. We say this to people when we die as well. Don't forget Acts has the angels telling folks Jesus would return in the same way they saw him go away. You don't need to return if you're everywhere.

Mt 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.”
In name. See above.

Eph 3:17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love,
In the hearts and minds. See above.

Omniscient

Jn 2:25 and had no need that anyone should testify of man, for He knew what was in man.
Everyone knows what's in man. Jesus testifies he doesn't know the secret things, only the Father, Matthew 6:4,6,8,18.

Jn 16:30 Now we are sure that You know all things, and have no need that anyone should question You. By this we believe that You came forth from God.”
See Matthew 6.

Omnipotent

Mt 28:18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
Sorry. If you're given power you aren't omnipotent.

Jn 10:18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”
Again, see above.

Preexistent

Jn 1:1-2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God.
Sure. God's spoken words created. Jesus wasn't around until he came from the womb.

Jn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
Sure. God had plans for Israel and the Messiah before creation.

Eternal

Is 9:6 For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Sure, the "Father" is Eternal. The son is born, begotten. ;)

Mic 5:2 “But you Bethlehem Ephrathah, Though you are little among the thousands of Judah, Yet out of you shall come forth to Me The One to be Ruler in Israel, Whose goings forth are from of old, From everlasting.”
Sure, Messiah descends from Jesse and David who come from Bethlehem, from of old, meolam.

Jn 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
Sure, Jesus thought he was preordained to be sent by God as a prophet as Moses was, Ex 3:14.

Immutable

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
And yet this statement is false given that the idea of the incarnation with the unity of 2 natures, Jesus being limited in the flesh, etc., shows this less than true. Nor does immutable depend on another, die, change positions, etc.
 
Actually, not.


Well to start, God doesn't have flesh. You forgot that one.


Yep, in thought. We say this to people when we die as well. Don't forget Acts has the angels telling folks Jesus would return in the same way they saw him go away. You don't need to return if you're everywhere.


In name. See above.


In the hearts and minds. See above.


Everyone knows what's in man. Jesus testifies he doesn't know the secret things, only the Father, Matthew 6:4,6,8,18.


See Matthew 6.


Sorry. If you're given power you aren't omnipotent.


Again, see above.


Sure. God's spoken words created. Jesus wasn't around until he came from the womb.


Sure. God had plans for Israel and the Messiah before creation.


Sure, the "Father" is Eternal. The son is born, begotten. ;)


Sure, Messiah descends from Jesse and David who come from Bethlehem, from of old, meolam.


Sure, Jesus thought he was preordained to be sent by God as a prophet as Moses was, Ex 3:14.


And yet this statement is false given that the idea of the incarnation with the unity of 2 natures, Jesus being limited in the flesh, etc., shows this less than true. Nor does immutable depend on another, die, change positions, etc.
What I posted is considered circumstantial evidence. One piece of circumstantial evidence by itself proves nothing. Accumulative it creates a strong case that the argument is more true than false.
But alongside the smoking guns that explicitly and literally state that Jesus is God proves the case true beyond a reasonable doubt. Titus 2:13, 2 Pe 1:1, John 20:28,
 
2 So He said to them, “When you pray, say: Our Father in heaven, (Lk 11:2).
5 “And when you pray... But you, when you pray... 7 And when you pray... 9 In this manner, therefore, pray: Our Father in heaven (Mt 6:5–9).
Jesus never includes Himself in the 'OUR'
Our includes Jesus as well. When Israel prays we include all of Israel. Shema Israel YHWH our God YHWH is One.

Don't change the subject. Shall we place your et argument on the self?
Not changing. It goes where I said. Best case for you, another anthropomorphism.

You have a poor understanding of what you claim to know.
Oh, let's see.

Elohim carries several meanings including + rulers, judges, either as divine representatives at sacred places or as reflecting divine majesty and power: And we translate based on the passage.
I've said this in just about every conversation I've had with folks.

As to Greek when the noun carries the definite article it's definite. When it does not it is either definite or indefinite based on the passage. When theos carries the definite article it is equivalent to YHWH. Titus 2:13, 2 Pe 1:1, John 20:28, all have theos carrying the definite article, therefore YHWH.
So does Ex 22:8-9 with regards to judges. So try another argument. Satan is called Ho Theos in the NT too.

Why are you rolling on the floor. Are you incapable of reading. The text is clear, explicit. Luke states that the HS spoke to Isaiah.
Sure God the Father speaks who is spirit. I take the NT with a grain of salt. ;)


Elohym
Plural intensive—singular meaning = Elohym governs a singular verb or adjective when referring to the God of Israel, but grammatically plural elohim, takes a plural verb or adjective when used of pagan divinities. Pagan divinities when singular carry a singular verb.
However, there are places where the Elohim is used of the true God and yet is followed by a plural verb:
Ok, let's see. Keep in mind that 98% of occurrences are singular. There are aways irregularities. I wouldn't create a religion based on irregularities.

Genesis 20:13: “And when God [Elohim] caused me to wander [literally: “They” caused me to wander] from my father’s house.

Genesis 35:7: “There God [Elohim] had revealed himself to him.” [Literally: “They” appeared unto him.]

2 Samuel 7:23: “God [Elohim] went.”” [Literally: “They” went.]

Psalm 58:11: “Surely there is a God [Elohim] who judges.” [Literally: “They” judge.]

Ecclesiastes 12:1: “Remember now your Creator.” [Literally: creators.]

God not only speaks of Himself in the plural, but many authors of Scripture also refer to God’s plurality. Out of the Hebrew, we find that nouns and adjectives describing God are in the plural form:

Psalm 149:2: “Let Israel rejoice in their Maker.” [Literally: makers.]

Joshua 24:19: “holy God” [Literally: holy Gods.]

Isaiah 54:5: “For your Maker is your husband.” [Literally: makers, husbands.]

In the OT we do have verses that speak of YHWH as a plurality.
Very little by comparison. I'll answer in another post.

So you interpret 'form' by taking a trip to the OT and grab onto anything you think might stick.
Like you did above?

That is not how hermeneutics is done. If that was the case any fool can interpret.
Interpret first from the immediate text.
See above.

Vs7, but emptied Himself, taking the "morphe/form/nature of a "man/bond-bondservant, and being made in the likeness of men.
“Form” is translated from “morphe” used Phil 2:6,7, and Mk 16:12. In Phil 2:6 Jesus is in “form of God”, 2:7
Mankind is the image of God.

“form of man”, and Mk 16:12 “ a form taken after the resurrection”. If “morphe “cannot be applied ontologically in Phil 2:6 then it should not be literal in Phi2:7, and if so what was crucified, died, and resurrected in MK?
See above.

Before you run your mouth and look bad, suggest you do your homework first.
Done.

Jesus never said that no one has seen God, but no one has seen the Father.
Same thing. The Father is God.

Jn 6:46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father.
Yep, known, understood.

Jn 5:37 And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.
Meaning that the folks didn't understand God spiritually.

It shows a hierarchy of authority not a hierarchy of being.
It shows Jesus isn't God, on a lesser level.

Now you speak for him.
When I can.

Based on what? I quoted from John, what John wrote as a eyewitness to what Jesus said. Who should we believe?
Me.

Jesus stated that He does not.
For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.” (Mt 12:8).
Yes, this is a Rabbinical statement meaning life takes precedence on the Sabbath.

If Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever; therefore immutable, unchanging {Heb 13:8},
But he did change by adding another nature ?.

and if Jesus upholds the universe by the word of His power {Heb 1:3}, such that in Jesus all things hold together, consist {Col. 1:17}.
Which according to the Tanakh he doesn't.

One has to ask, “How was Jesus able to do this when he was an embryo in Mary’s womb, a new born, a toddler learning how to walk, an adolescent growing in wisdom and stature {Luke 2:52} and finally dead for three days?
He wasn't. He's just a man.

If Jesus was limited to a human body as He existed on earth, how was He able to be present everywhere in His creation, {all the universe in its totality}, directing it, being the source of its life, and giving life as He chooses if He was not God?
He wasn't. His own witness says so, John 20:17.

Jewitzu
Jesus was abandoned at the cross. That isn't continuous love.


This is how clueless you are.
I believe you read this before.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. (Jn 3:16).
That is the depth of my God's love.
Jesus died. That isn't continuous.

Prayer for strength is not an indication that the one praying is inferior to the one being prayed to. When Jesus prayed to the Father He was communicating with the Father.
Inferior, on his knees, confessing who the true God is. ;)
 
What I posted is considered circumstantial evidence. One piece of circumstantial evidence by itself proves nothing. Accumulative it creates a strong case that the argument is more true than false.
But alongside the smoking guns that explicitly and literally state that Jesus is God proves the case true beyond a reasonable doubt. Titus 2:13, 2 Pe 1:1, John 20:28,
Ridiculous. Then judges, Ex 22:8-9, and Satan, 2 Cor 4:4, are God too.

Think it through. What you presented was a water pistol ?. Sorry.
 
Genesis 20:13: “And when God [Elohim] caused me to wander [literally: “They” caused me to wander] from my father’s house.
Abimelech was a polytheist believing in gods. Abraham initially was told by God Himself to leave back in Gen 12, and Pharoah, who was perceived by people as a god too, told him to leave Egypt.

Genesis 35:7: “There God [Elohim] had revealed himself to him.” [Literally: “They” appeared unto him.]
Given the immediate context in the previous verse, it's understood that a singular God, "E-l" is in view. See Gen 35:1.

2 Samuel 7:23: “God [Elohim] went.”” [Literally: “They” went.]
Redeemed for himself, singular.

Psalm 58:11: “Surely there is a God [Elohim] who judges.” [Literally: “They” judge.]
Yep an intensive plural. Sometimes used for regular people like virgins in Deut 22:17, or Jacob's plural age denoting wisdom as well, Gen 37:3.

Ecclesiastes 12:1: “Remember now your Creator.” [Literally: creators.]
Like Elo-him.

God not only speaks of Himself in the plural, but many authors of Scripture also refer to God’s plurality. Out of the Hebrew, we find that nouns and adjectives describing God are in the plural form:

Psalm 149:2: “Let Israel rejoice in their Maker.” [Literally: makers.]
Like Elo-him.

Joshua 24:19: “holy God” [Literally: holy Gods.]
No, a God of Holiness He is... Holy Holy Holy. The same verse says He is E-l.

Isaiah 54:5: “For your Maker is your husband.” [Literally: makers, husbands.]
Yep, intensive plurals for a singular name YHWH.
 
Our includes Jesus as well.
Obviously you cannot read. Reading comprehension 101
When the speaker repeatedly says "you do X", it does not include the speaker.

Did Jesus say "when we pray' or "when you pray"

2 So He said to them, “When you pray, say: Our Father in heaven, (Lk 11:2).

5 “And when you pray... But you, when you pray... 7 And when you pray... 9 In this manner, therefore, pray: Our Father in heaven (Mt 6:5–9).Jesus never includes Himself in the 'OUR'

When Israel prays we include all of Israel. Shema Israel YHWH our God YHWH is One.
Israel YHWH our God [Elohym =plural] YHWH is One. [ehad =united one]
Not changing. It goes where I said. Best case for you, another anthropomorphism.

Oh, let's see.

I've said this in just about every conversation I've had with folks. Very little by comparison. I'll answer in another post. See above.
See above. Done. Yep, known, understood. Meaning that the folks didn't understand God spiritually. When I can.
Personal opinions not worth answering.
So does Ex 22:8-9 with regards to judges. So try another argument.
Try to follow. Elohim is translated based on the context. So if it is used for judges it does not invalidate its use for YHWH.
Satan is called Ho Theos in the NT too.
Sometimes I forget to dumb down the argument so it can be understood by the lowest denominator.

So lets repost.

as to Greek when the noun carries the definite article it's definite. When it does not it is either definite or indefinite based on the passage. When theos carries the definite article [and it is not modified as in 2 Cor 4:4] it is equivalent to YHWH. Titus 2:13, 2 Pe 1:1, John 20:28, all have theos carrying the definite article, therefore YHWH.
Sure God the Father speaks who is spirit. I take the NT with a grain of salt.
Wrong that is not what Luke recorded.
What's with the constant winking?
Ok, let's see. Keep in mind that 98% of occurrences are singular. There are aways irregularities. I wouldn't create a religion based on irregularities.
So when in check mate, you pull this out. I do not believe God makes irregularities. Maybe your religion doubts it's documents its god's ability not to make irregularities. We do not. My God which you claim to be your God made it clear that He is a plurality and singularity.
Like you did above?
Really?? Try being honest.

Interpret first from the immediate text.

Vs7, but emptied Himself, taking the "morphe/form/nature of a "man/bond-bondservant, and being made in the likeness of men.

“Form” is translated from “morphe” used Phil 2:6,7, and Mk 16:12. In Phil 2:6 Jesus is in “form of God”, 2:7 “form of man”, and Mk 16:12 “ a form taken after the resurrection”. If “morphe “cannot be applied ontologically in Phil 2:6 then it should not be literal in Phi2:7, and if so what was crucified, died, and resurrected in MK?
Mankind is the image of God.
And? So what?
Same thing. The Father is God.
No it does not. That is what you conclude not based on the passage but your bias views.
It shows Jesus isn't God, on a lesser level.
No it does not. That is your opinion. But the text, the chapter, book, and scripture does not support you.
Proves you are not serious. So I will treat you as the troll you are.
Yes, this is a Rabbinical statement meaning life takes precedence on the Sabbath.
Really? You came to that conclusion based on "For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."
Should start your post with once upon a time.
But he did change by adding another nature ?.
He did not add on, but took on a form. My God is powerful enough to create a human body, occupy it and be fully human and fully God. Yours on the other hand is limited to whatever you wish.
Which according to the Tanakh he doesn't.
That is your opinion. According to the author of Hebrews who was inspired by YHWH, Jesus does. See the difference I have scriptural support. You have your opinion. Put on your big boy pants and put some meat on that bone.
He wasn't. He's just a man.
I gave you my argument based on scripture, you post the above. Really?
He wasn't. His own witness says so, John 20:17.
Your imaginary mathematics. Yours + mine= ours.
Jesus died. That isn't continuous.
In the equation, mankind has an opportunity for eternal existence with God, bypass eternal condemnation, and Jesus resurrected from the dead. I call that love. Your god is an angry god that insist on constant observance to rules that cannot be met, constant sacrificing for sins that cannot be forgiven, and an eternal punishment for offences that cannot be erased. I can see why yours is the better choice.
Inferior, on his knees, confessing who the true God is. ;)
Kneeling does not equate to being inferior in being. In the Bible multiple people kneeled before kings. Does that equate to the king being a superior being than the one kneeling? Suggest you work on your logic.
 
Obviously you cannot read. Reading comprehension 101
When the speaker repeatedly says "you do X", it does not include the speaker.
When he says "Our" it does.

Did Jesus say "when we pray' or "when you pray"

2 So He said to them, “When you pray, say: Our Father in heaven, (Lk 11:2).

5 “And when you pray... But you, when you pray... 7 And when you pray... 9 In this manner, therefore, pray: Our Father in heaven (Mt 6:5–9).Jesus never includes Himself in the 'OUR'
He was included.

Israel YHWH our God [Elohym =plural] YHWH is One. [ehad =united one]
Nope, the singular name YHWH shows the understanding.

Personal opinions not worth answering.
So, I shouldn't answer you?

Try to follow. Elohim is translated based on the context. So if it is used for judges it does not invalidate its use for YHWH.
So then everywhere I see YHWH it doesn't invalidate its usage for judges either?

Sometimes I forget to dumb down the argument so it can be understood by the lowest denominator.
If you need it for yourself, go ahead.

So lets repost.

as to Greek when the noun carries the definite article it's definite. When it does not it is either definite or indefinite based on the passage. When theos carries the definite article [and it is not modified as in 2 Cor 4:4] it is equivalent to YHWH. Titus 2:13, 2 Pe 1:1, John 20:28, all have theos carrying the definite article, therefore YHWH.
So, Satan is God as well. And judges as well, got it.

Wrong that is not what Luke recorded.
He references Isaiah so that's what is meant.

What's with the constant winking?
Does it bother you?

So when in check mate, you pull this out. I do not believe God makes irregularities. Maybe your religion doubts it's documents its god's ability not to make irregularities. We do not. My God which you claim to be your God made it clear that He is a plurality and singularity.
No checkmate. I don't claim your god is my God. That's your claim. ;)

Really?? Try being honest.
All of the time.

Interpret first from the immediate text.

Vs7, but emptied Himself, taking the "morphe/form/nature of a "man/bond-bondservant, and being made in the likeness of men.

“Form” is translated from “morphe” used Phil 2:6,7, and Mk 16:12. In Phil 2:6 Jesus is in “form of God”, 2:7 “form of man”, and Mk 16:12 “ a form taken after the resurrection”. If “morphe “cannot be applied ontologically in Phil 2:6 then it should not be literal in Phi2:7, and if so what was crucified, died, and resurrected in MK?
Yep, man is in the form of God, made to rule, Gen 1;26-27. Jesus came as king but had to wait to reign, and acted as a servant. Do you understand?

And? So what?

No it does not. That is what you conclude not based on the passage but your bias views.
No, Jesus said he has a God and Father, John 20:17. God said you should have no other gods nor now to them. Jesus does on both accounts.

No it does not. That is your opinion. But the text, the chapter, book, and scripture does not support you.
Your god bleeds and dies. Mythology 101.

Proves you are not serious. So I will treat you as the troll you are.
Why? Because that's your best defense?

Really? You came to that conclusion based on "For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."
Should start your post with once upon a time.
Then you don't know the background regarding many of Jesus' usage of Pharisaical statements.

He did not add on, but took on a form. My God is powerful enough to create a human body, occupy it and be fully human and fully God. Yours on the other hand is limited to whatever you wish.
That's adding. God's nature had nothing to do with a duality. That's the fact.

That is your opinion. According to the author of Hebrews who was inspired by YHWH, Jesus does. See the difference I have scriptural support. You have your opinion. Put on your big boy pants and put some meat on that bone.
I'm pointing out that the author made it up. Tanakh doesn't support it which is all that matters. ;)

You have a thing with boys and pants?

I gave you my argument based on scripture, you post the above. Really?
Really. Jesus says he's just a man. The rest is hearsay.

Your imaginary mathematics. Yours + mine= ours.
Actually, I believe that's the definition in the dictionary for our.

In the equation, mankind has an opportunity for eternal existence with God, bypass eternal condemnation, and Jesus resurrected from the dead. I call that love.
But the point of him dying shows the love wasn't continous.

Your god is an angry god that insist on constant observance to rules that cannot be met, constant sacrificing for sins that cannot be forgiven, and an eternal punishment for offences that cannot be erased. I can see why yours is the better choice.
Actually, that's in the Tanakh. It's supposed to be the same God you claim.

Kneeling does not equate to being inferior in being. In the Bible multiple people kneeled before kings. Does that equate to the king being a superior being than the one kneeling? Suggest you work on your logic.
No, it shows who has the power and is the superior. Jesus bows and prays to another, and this isn't reciprocated at all by your godhead. Get a clue. ;)

Isaiah 45:23
By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear.

Even now, Jesus has knees and a tongue. ;)
 
Last edited:
Abimelech was a polytheist believing in gods. Abraham initially was told by God Himself to leave back in Gen 12, and Pharoah, who was perceived by people as a god too, told him to leave Egypt.
And? So what? What does that have to do with Elohim carrying a plural verb, making Elohim who is YHWH in the verse plural? NOTHING.
Genesis 20:13: “And when God [Elohim] caused me to wander [literally: “They” caused me to wander] from my father’s house.
Given the immediate context in the previous verse, it's understood that a singular God, "E-l" is in view. See Gen 35:1.
Why not quote from Gen 1 or Rev 1. What matters is what is written in the verse. Sign of desperation, pulling anything out that might stick.
Genesis 35:7: “There God [Elohim] had revealed himself to him.” [Literally: “They” appeared unto him.]
Redeemed for himself, singular.
And who is like Your people, like Israel, the one nation on the earth whom God [Elohim] went [plural] to redeem [singular] for Himself [singulars] as a people, to make for Himself a name—and to do for Yourself great and awesome deeds for Your land—before Your people whom You redeemed for Yourself from Egypt, the nations, and their gods? (2 Sa 7:23).

And? Where have we seen God being described as a singularity and plurality in the same verse.
26 Then God [Elohim plural] said, “Let Us [plural] make [plural] man in Our image,
8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying: “Whom shall I [singular] send, And who will go for Us [plural]?” (Is 6:8).

Yep an intensive plural. Sometimes used for regular people like virgins in Deut 22:17, or Jacob's plural age denoting wisdom as well, Gen 37:3.
Yep, intensive plurals for a singular name YHWH.
You do not know what plural intensive is. They were to inspire the Hebrew mind with the idea of greatness, majesty, grandeur and holiness.
1 The earth is the Lord’s, and all its fullness, The world and those who dwell therein. 2 For He has founded it upon the seas, And established it upon the waters. (Ps 24:1–2). denoting boundless extent.
He rebuked the Red Sea also, and it dried up; So He led them through the depths, As through the wilderness. (Ps 106:9)

15 He split the rocks in the wilderness, And gave them drink in abundance like the depths. (Ps 78:15).
1 His foundation is in the holy mountains. (Ps 87:1). Referring to the temple mount.
9 “I watched till thrones were put in place, And the Ancient of Days was seated; (Da 7:9). .


What below would inspire the Hebrew mind with the idea of greatness, majesty, grandeur or holiness?
Just pulling anything out that might have a definite possibility of a maybe in sticking. Sorry.
Isaiah 54:5: “For your Maker is your husband.” [Literally: makers, husbands.]
Psalm 58:11: “Surely there is a God [Elohim] who judges.” [Literally: “They” judge.]

Suggest you read up on plural intensives.
Like Elo-him.
Like Elo-him.
whatever that means.
Ecclesiastes 12:1: “Remember now your Creator.” [Literally: creators.]
Psalm 149:2: “Let Israel rejoice in their Maker.” [Literally: makers.]
still holds.

No, a God of Holiness He is... Holy Holy Holy. The same verse says He is E-l.
And. Nothing new here, singularity and plurality in the same verse.
Joshua 24:19: “holy God” [Literally: holy Gods.]
 
When he says "Our" it does.
Try reading it sloooowly or ask someone to read it to you.
2 So He said to them, “When you pray, say: Our Father in heaven, (Lk 11:2).

Notice Jesus is not saying 'When we pray".
So, Satan is God as well.
Maybe I did not dumb it down enough for you to understand.
as to Greek when the noun carries the definite article it's definite. When it does not it is either definite or indefinite based on the passage. When theos carries the definite article [and it is not modified as in 2 Cor 4:4] it is equivalent to YHWH. Titus 2:13, 2 Pe 1:1, John 20:28, all have theos carrying the definite article, therefore YHWH.

And judges as well, got it.
I guess your polytheistic.


He references Isaiah so that's what is meant.
Incoherent gibberish. Luke stated clearly that the HS spoke to Isaiah. Dance around it as much as you want, you cannot refute this.
Let me dumb it down for you.

Acts 28:25 The Holy Spirit... saying to your fathers through Isaiah the prophet: 26"Go to this people, and say, You shall indeed hear but never understand, and you shall indeed see but never perceive. 27 For this people's heart has grown dull, and their ears are heavy of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest they should perceive with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and turn for me to heal them.'

Luke was inspired by God to write the above. Same God that inspired the OT.
Does it bother you?
Does not bother me. Just want to make sure that I am using the right pronouns when addressing you.
Yep, man is in the form of God, made to rule, Gen 1;26-27. Jesus came as king but had to wait to reign, and acted as a servant. Do you understand?
This is poor scholarship. Using Genesis to explain Phil and ignore the text. Being in the form of God did not consider His equality with God. Equality translates from isos which means equal in quality and quantity. Jesus being is equal with God in quality and quantity.

Your god bleeds and dies. Mythology 101.
And resurrects Himself.
because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.” (Jn 10:17–18)
Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” Jn 2:9

My God took on human form, fully God and fully man. The man was crucified and died. How does a dead person bring himself back to life?

Curious when your messiah appears how are the Jews going to confirm that he is from the line of David? The Hall of Records was destroyed by the Romans. Why would God allow that to happen? Maybe because there is no more need for it?

That's adding. God's nature had nothing to do with a duality. That's the fact.
That is not adding. If Jesus added His divinity would have change. it did not. Again my God is truly omnipotent. Since He created the the physical, temporal, spiritual and eternal from nothing by nothing, its considered child's play for Him to occupy a body and be fully man and fully God at the same time.
I'm pointing out that the author made it up. Tanakh doesn't support it which is all that matters. ;)
You would have to prove that the author made it up.
Actually, that's in the Tanakh. It's supposed to be the same God you claim.
We might be reading the same book and claiming the same God by name. But the god you ascribe to is not same as mine. My Jesus is not the same Jesus the Mormons or JW ascribe to.
No, it shows who has the power and is the superior. Jesus bows and prays to another, and this isn't reciprocated at all by your godhead. Get a clue. ;)

Isaiah 45:23
By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear.

Even now, Jesus has knees and a tongue. ;)
Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Php 2:9–11).
 
And? So what? What does that have to do with Elohim carrying a plural verb, making Elohim who is YHWH in the verse plural? NOTHING.
Genesis 20:13: “And when God [Elohim] caused me to wander [literally: “They” caused me to wander] from my father’s house.
It sure does. As you've stated before elohim is used with respect to humans and the God. Pharaoh was considered a god in those days, and kicked Abraham out of Egypt during his travels. It's pretty clear.

Why not quote from Gen 1 or Rev 1. What matters is what is written in the verse. Sign of desperation, pulling anything out that might stick.
Genesis 35:7: “There God [Elohim] had revealed himself to him.” [Literally: “They” appeared unto him.]
Genesis 35:7 There he built an altar, and he called the place El Bethel, because it was there that God revealed himself to him when he was fleeing from his brother.

The singular God is in the same verse.

And who is like Your people, like Israel, the one nation on the earth whom God [Elohim] went [plural] to redeem [singular] for Himself [singulars] as a people, to make for Himself a name—and to do for Yourself great and awesome deeds for Your land—before Your people whom You redeemed for Yourself from Egypt, the nations, and their gods? (2 Sa 7:23).
You answered your own question. For Himself, singular.

Don't forget, God used angels during the plagues to redeem Israel, Psalm 78:49. Angels are also called God, Psalm 8:5.

And? Where have we seen God being described as a singularity and plurality in the same verse.
26 Then God [Elohim plural] said, “Let Us [plural] make [plural] man in Our image,
Actually, God is singular based on the verb choice being singular for said. He speaks to others not Himself.

8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying: “Whom shall I [singular] send, And who will go for Us [plural]?” (Is 6:8).
Yep, speaking before the angels. Isaiah was sent.

You do not know what plural intensive is. They were to inspire the Hebrew mind with the idea of greatness, majesty, grandeur and holiness.
1 The earth is the Lord’s, and all its fullness, The world and those who dwell therein. 2 For He has founded it upon the seas, And established it upon the waters. (Ps 24:1–2). denoting boundless extent.
He rebuked the Red Sea also, and it dried up; So He led them through the depths, As through the wilderness. (Ps 106:9)
Beautiful.

15 He split the rocks in the wilderness, And gave them drink in abundance like the depths. (Ps 78:15).
1 His foundation is in the holy mountains. (Ps 87:1). Referring to the temple mount.
9 “I watched till thrones were put in place, And the Ancient of Days was seated; (Da 7:9). .
I'll get my tissue ?.

What below would inspire the Hebrew mind with the idea of greatness, majesty, grandeur or holiness?
Just pulling anything out that might have a definite possibility of a maybe in sticking. Sorry.
Isaiah 54:5: “For your Maker is your husband.” [Literally: makers, husbands.]
Yep, God is greater than 2 or more husbands combined. Good news for women.

Psalm 58:11: “Surely there is a God [Elohim] who judges.” [Literally: “They” judge.]
Yes, His judgments are better than any singular judge.

Suggest you read up on plural intensives.
I suggest you do.

whatever that means.
Ecclesiastes 12:1: “Remember now your Creator.” [Literally: creators.]
Yep, no different than remember now your God.

Psalm 149:2: “Let Israel rejoice in their Maker.” [Literally: makers.]
still holds.
Yep, no different than rejoice in their God.

And. Nothing new here, singularity and plurality in the same verse.
Joshua 24:19: “holy God” [Literally: holy Gods.]
Actually, the plural here is holiness.
 
Try reading it sloooowly or ask someone to read it to you.
2 So He said to them, “When you pray, say: Our Father in heaven, (Lk 11:2).

Notice Jesus is not saying 'When we pray".
Rotfl... when Jews pray they include everyone. That includes Jesus.

Maybe I did not dumb it down enough for you to understand.
If you need for your own understanding, go for it.

as to Greek when the noun carries the definite article it's definite.
Ho Theos.

When it does not it is either definite or indefinite based on the passage. When theos carries the definite article [and it is not modified as in 2 Cor 4:4] it is equivalent to YHWH.
So Satan is God in the NT. Be consistent and don't make up stuff.

Titus 2:13, 2 Pe 1:1, John 20:28, all have theos carrying the definite article, therefore YHWH.
Just like the judges in Ex 22:8-9. Got it.

I guess your polytheistic.
No, actually that would be the trinity. Judges are Ho Theos in Ex 22:8-9 because they judge as the God.

Incoherent gibberish. Luke stated clearly that the HS spoke to Isaiah.
Yes, the Father is Holy and a Spirit.

Dance around it as much as you want, you cannot refute this.
Let me dumb it down for you.
I love dancing ?.

Acts 28:25 The Holy Spirit... saying to your fathers through Isaiah the prophet:
Yes, the Father is a Spirit.

26"Go to this people, and say, You shall indeed hear but never understand, and you shall indeed see but never perceive. 27 For this people's heart has grown dull, and their ears are heavy of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest they should perceive with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and turn for me to heal them.'

Luke was inspired by God to write the above. Same God that inspired the OT.
Yes, the Father is a Spirit. I don't know about the NT being inspired. It doesn't look like it.

Does not bother me. Just want to make sure that I am using the right pronouns when addressing you.
;)

This is poor scholarship. Using Genesis to explain Phil and ignore the text. Being in the form of God did not consider His equality with God. Equality translates from isos which means equal in quality and quantity. Jesus being is equal with God in quality and quantity.
Sure, Jesus was considered equal to Messiah. Those ruling from the house of David sat on YHWHs throne. But, Jesus would have to suffer first. Got it.

And resurrects Himself.
because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.” (Jn 10:17–18)
Given by the Father. It wasn't inherit in him.

Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” Jn 2:9
See above.

My God took on human form, fully God and fully man. The man was crucified and died. How does a dead person bring himself back to life?
He doesn't. In fact his bones and ossuary were found in Talpiot. Again, Jesus was less than God in the flesh, limited. You know that.

Curious when your messiah appears how are the Jews going to confirm that he is from the line of David? The Hall of Records was destroyed by the Romans. Why would God allow that to happen? Maybe because there is no more need for it?
This is all a myth. We can see from the very Zechariah 12 that you quote, the house of David still exists, Zechariah 12:12-13.

I love the fact that you feel desperate enough to bring up other topics to change the subject.

That is not adding. If Jesus added His divinity would have change. it did not.
Of course it did. He was limited in the flesh, didn't know the secret things, limited to earth, etc.

Again my God is truly omnipotent. Since He created the the physical, temporal, spiritual and eternal from nothing by nothing, its considered child's play for Him to occupy a body and be fully man and fully God at the same time.
And yet Jesus was limited in human form.

You would have to prove that the author made it up.
Look to Tanakh.

We might be reading the same book and claiming the same God by name. But the god you ascribe to is not same as mine. My Jesus is not the same Jesus the Mormons or JW ascribe to.
Mormons have physical gods like you.

Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Php 2:9–11).
Yep, given the actual reference, we see your quote above is false. Jesus will have to bow with his own knees. It's fabulous.
 
Last edited:
Ephesians 4:10, NIV
He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)

ERV
So Christ came down, and he is the same one who went up. He went up above the highest heaven in order to fill everything with himself.

It's about omnipresence.

Jer 23:24
24Who can hide in secret places
so that I cannot see them?”
declares the Lord.

“Do not I fill heaven and earth?”
declares the Lord.

God already is omnipresent. He doesn't need to become omnipresent at some point in time, nor is there a second Spirit who becomes omnipresent. The verse is talking about what I said in context to the Kingdom of God expanding and the Spirit of Christ infilling people as people receive Him. The whole Ephesians chapter 4 is talking about the growth of the church. Context matters. Jesus told his disciples that after he ascended he would send the Comforter, the Holy Spirit.
 
God already is omnipresent. He doesn't need to become omnipresent at some point in time

Jesus ascended "in order to fill the universe". You're wrong.

Jesus told his disciples that after he ascended he would send the Comforter, the Holy Spirit.

Jesus also called Himself The Comforter.

John 14:18
I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

John 7:39
for the Holy Spirit was not yet, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

See, He needed to be glorified.

nor is there a second Spirit

Christ IS The Spirit (2 Cor 3:17).
 
Rotfl... when Jews pray they include everyone. That includes Jesus.


If you need for your own understanding, go for it.


Ho Theos.


So Satan is God in the NT. Be consistent and don't make up stuff.


Just like the judges in Ex 22:8-9. Got it.


No, actually that would be the trinity. Judges are Ho Theos in Ex 22:8-9 because they judge as the God.


Yes, the Father is Holy and a Spirit.


I love dancing ?.


Yes, the Father is a Spirit.


Yes, the Father is a Spirit. I don't know about the NT being inspired. It doesn't look like it.


;)


Sure, Jesus was considered equal to Messiah. Those ruling from the house of David sat on YHWHs throne. But, Jesus would have to suffer first. Got it.


Given by the Father. It wasn't inherit in him.


See above.


He doesn't. In fact his bones and ossuary were found in Talpiot. Again, Jesus was less than God in the flesh, limited. You know that.


This is all a myth. We can see from the very Zechariah 12 that you quote, the house of David still exists, Zechariah 12:12-13.

I love the fact that you feel desperate enough to bring up other topics to change the subject.


Of course it did. He was limited in the flesh, didn't know the secret things, limited to earth, etc.


And yet Jesus was limited in human form.


Look to Tanakh.


Mormons have physical gods like you.


Yep, given the actual reference, we see your quote above is false. Jesus will have to bow with his own knees. It's fabulous.
Obviously you are a troll so i will treat you like one. I don’t feed trolls.
 
Yes,
Jesus ascended "in order to fill the universe". You're wrong.



Jesus also called Himself The Comforter.

John 14:18
I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

John 7:39
for the Holy Spirit was not yet, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

See, He needed to be glorified.



Christ IS The Spirit (2 Cor 3:17).
Yes, He is the Spirit. The Spirit of God was already omnipresent. God is immutable. There is only one Spirit. I don't think you've thought things through very well.

But, how is the Spirit different today than before Acts 2? The Holy Spirit manifests by infilling whosoever will receive Christ. This is the subject of Ephesians 4. When it says "The Father... IN YOU ALL", he obviously wasn't talking about every human being on the planet, but about believers. Context is important. And, yes Christ is the Spirit because He was, is and will always be God.
 
Yes,

Yes, He is the Spirit.

Yep, Christ is The Spirit. The Father is the One who sends the Spirit.

Deal with it.

Psalm 104:30
When you send your Spirit, they are created, and you renew the face of the ground.

God sends His Spirit. They're distinct.
 
Last edited:
"The Father... IN YOU ALL",

The Father lives in us *THROUGH* Christ.

Eph 2:22
In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

John 14:23
Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

There's TWO distinct persons.

Isaiah 48:16
Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.
 
The Father lives in us *THROUGH* Christ.

Eph 2:22
In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

John 14:23
Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

There's TWO distinct persons.

Isaiah 48:16
Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

Both you and Trinitarians always miss the importance of Christ's genuine humanity. In John 14 Jesus was physically with his disciples. Beginning in Acts 2, day of Pentecost, Jesus would be in them as Spirit because He is both God and man simultaneously. His resurrected human body ascended to heaven (Acts 1). Beginning in Acts 2 Christ would infill the believers as He promised in John 14. God is one and the one God, who is Spirit, manifested in the flesh. The distinction between Father and Son is due to his genuine humanity. There is one Spirit that infills the believer, however, the roles of Father, the head of the family of God, and the Son in a mediatorial role, and the operation of the Spiritual gifts works in the believer. One God, one Spirit and simply no need for multiple persons. The one God can do many things at once.

What actually, in practical terms do you mean by "the Father lives in us THROUGH Christ"? According to scripture the Father abides in the believer, not through another person. It's just like in LUKE 1:35 where the Spirit overshadows Mary and miraculously the Son is conceived. This makes the Holy Spirit the Father. It is weird (and unscriptural) to think that the Father used another person to cause the miraculous conception. Not sure where you stand on that exactly, but it probably doesn't work out too great for you given all the other issues your binary view of God has.
 
Last edited:
Both you and Trinitarians always miss the importance of Christ's genuine humanity. In John 14 Jesus was physically with his disciples. Beginning in Acts 2, day of Pentecost, Jesus would be in them as Spirit because He is both God and man simultaneously. His resurrected human body ascended to heaven (Acts 1). God is one and the one God, who is Spirit, manifested in the flesh. The distinction between Father and Son is due to his genuine humanity. There is one Spirit that infills the believer, however, the roles of Father, the head of the family of God, and the Son in a mediatorial role, and the operation of the Spiritual gifts works in the believer. One God, one Spirit and simply no need for multiple persons. The one God can do many things at once.

No, lol, Jesus said The Spirit would speak only what He hears.

Does your god only speak what he hears?

If so, what did he hear in order to speak creation into existence?
 
Back
Top