Jesus, religion or reality......

Again, the only thing you're accomplishing here is justifying your lack of knowledge, lack of experience, lack of awareness, and lack of understanding.
If you don't want to know, then walk away.
The choice is entirely yours.
YHVH says that he will give you a heart to know him.
Jesus said that he will not turn away anyone who comes to him.
We further read that whosoever will call on his name shall be saved.
So, you can indeed continue to argue. You've repeatedly stated that you never experienced him. So, what do you think you're going to achieve by arguing from the position of ignorance? More ignorance? More lack? More... I don't know, so it must not be possible to know?
What I have pointed out is that all that the dodging relating to claims of inerrancy shows is that none of us have access to inerrant scripture.

My fees were paid in full at the beginning of each semester, before classes even started.
So, I'm thinking that the problem here isn't that I paid more. Rather that you're simply talking out your derriere.
You just don't get it do you Steve. It doesn't matter when you paid. The fact is that by padding the course you effectively paid for history lessons
when all you needed was the information required to put the knowledge into practice.

I already did.
I'm still waiting for the answers.
What was the question?

Ah.
So, your lack of knowledge, your lack of experience, your lack of understanding and your lack of awareness means that nobody else has become educated, nobody else has become aware, nobody else has gained experience and nobody else is allowed to understand?

Yeah. I had second hand stories in the beginning. Enough had transpired that I was no longer satisfied with secondhand stories.
So, I asked. I didn't talk to preachers. I didn't talk to religionists. I talked to YHVH himself.
As I wasn't educated in the bible, didn't have any interest whatsoever in religiosity, I had a really basic question.

Are you for real? Is this Jesus stuff I'm hearing for real or just another pile of religious bs?

Pretty basic stuff. Nothing fancy. Nothing erudite. Definitely not eloquent.

I just wanted to know if YHVH was real and legit. I didn't want any religious cr88! I grew up in a family where religion was impressed, but not practiced.

So, I find myself wondering why you should stop at secondhand stories and then say- yeah... well. It must be BS.

I have copious secondhand stories about life. People who have experiences, but I didn't. So I decided that if they could have experiences with things in life, why can't I?
So you claim that you had an experience but you expect the rest of us to be happy with second-hand stories. Either the bibles second-hand stories or yours.

Justification to excuse yourself.
Not buying it anymore.
Only justification if it's not true.
No you won't buy anything that would require you to question your logic.

Sure. Come visit me.
And that will prove what exactly?

I think it proves that you have conflated ideas, and don't actually know what you're talking about.
No it shows that your claim of an internal barometer of the supernatural is baseless.

I'm a human being. If you want to be an animal, I suppose that is your choice.
Let me know and I'll call the zoo and inform them that they have a wild animal on the loose.
You realise human beings are also animals don't you Steve?
Didn't you study biology?

So, the fact that I went through about a dozen prior to this particular one isn't enough for you?
Where? You haven't given any examples of your evaluating your experience against other possible sources.

Then you can tell him that yourself.
I thought he was omniscient.

Ah. So you admit to being delusional, but this one thing you can't possibly be deluded about.
Rather interesting how that works.
Did I say "this one thing I can't possibly be deluded about"?
No. We could all be deluded about everything. We might be living in the matrix.

This just sounds like you didn't really study or learn anything about it.

I left my family's church affiliation by the time I was 11-12, so 50 years ago.
I'd heard bible stories, but I didn't learn much.
This just sounds like an empty assertion.
How did you come to that conclusion based upon what I wrote?

Yep. I've also asked you to detail your experience and learning. I've asked you to read the bible and show me where you did what Jesus said.
That you didn't do what Jesus said shows that it isn't that essential.
I have told you what I did.
I just repeated it in relaying my church experience which you dismissed.
Apart from acknowledging that I was a sinner, repenting of those sins and asking Christ's forgiveness, accepting Christ as my lord and saviour and asking him to come into my life, praying and studying my bible, is there some crucial point that I missed in my effort to be saved.

Luke was the only non-Hebrew writer. Maybe Job too.
So, I'm not particularly bothered that people to whom the experience of YHVH occurred wrote about their experiences.
We don't know that Luke was non-Hebrew.
Yes it's not at all extraordinary that any particular people would use their God to back up their rights to a piece of land.

So, you have no experience of anything that nobody else has experienced?
Did I mention experiences? Everything I have experienced, I have experienced uniquely as myself.
Does that mean no-one else has had similar experiences? No.

Gifts by their very nature have two specific attributes that prevent you from receiving them.

1- they are a gift. Therefore they cannot be forcefully imposed on the recipient.

2- because they are a gift, they are real.

Something you should consider as you make such statements.
Something you should also consider as you make such statements.
Unless you can show the promise of eternal life to be real don't tell me I'm being offered a gift.
 
It's the opinion of anyone who knows what an investigation is.
And yet you're not actually doing what's necessary to investigate it.

Really? Can you see me not reading now?
YHVH is.

Then it's you who doesn't read much.
Do you think that the post crucifixion followers of Jesus were one big happy family? Why do you think Paul tried so hard to make himself out to be equal or better than the other apostles? Why do you think he only went to Jerusalem twice in all the time he was preaching?
Irritating when your ideas, and biases don't fit reality, isn't it!
Thankfully, we're instructed to focus our attention on Jesus. Hebrews 12:1-3.

Another excuse to make the failure of the biblical promise of YHVH to make himself "known" to me, my fault.
Yep.
We also read,

God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.

Pro 3:34 WEB Surely he mocks the mockers, but he gives grace to the humble.

Jas 4:6 But he gives more grace. Therefore it says, “God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”

1Pe 5:5 Likewise, you younger ones, be subject to the elder. Yes, all of you clothe yourselves with humility, to subject yourselves to one another; for “God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”

So, yes actually.
At which point you need to take responsibility for yourself and decide what matters more to you....

Yourself, your egocentricity, your own comforts..... or the truth.
 
I wasn't suggesting your persecution complex was part of your belief in YHVH.
No. You explicitly stated it.
The Bible does say to expect to be persecuted for your beliefs though. I think many Christians see persecution as a badge of honour and find persecution where there is none.
Rather curious how that works.
Persecution doesn't carry the same meaning it did back then.

Mat 5:10-12 WEB 10 Blessed are those who have been persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven. 11 “Blessed are you when people reproach you, persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely, for my sake. 12 Rejoice, and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven. For that is how they persecuted the prophets who were before you.



Thayer Definition:​
to make to run or flee, put to flight, drive away​
to run swiftly in order to catch a person or thing, to run after​
to press on: figuratively of one who in a race runs swiftly to reach the goal​
to pursue (in a hostile manner)​
in any way whatever to harass, trouble, molest one​
to persecute​
to be mistreated, suffer persecution on account of something​
without the idea of hostility, to run after, follow after: someone​
metaphorically, to pursue​
to seek after eagerly, earnestly endeavour to acquire​

So, a badge of honor? Apparently in the eyes of Jesus and God.... why yes. Yes it is! Ironically, I've never actually met anyone who is really excited about being harrassed, abused, maligned etc... about it.

Jesus however does make it sound like we're to view persecution as a badge of honor. I only say this because he made the statement that we should rejoice and be exceedingly glad.

When I think of persecution, I think of situations like this:



I'd post something for the former Soviet union treatment of Christians, but it's all historical now, and the articles are all pdf articles about it.
Anyone familiar with history of the treatment of Christians in the Soviet union, eastern bloc Romania and other countries knows what christianity experienced.
I recall hearing from a guy who ran the radio free Europe station in Europe back in 1979, that in Romania, you could attend church, become a Christian, etc... but the moment you were baptized, that placed a target on your life and you were marked for death by the Romanian government.
Nicolae Ceausescu was a brutally vicious leader.

So, yeah... my views of persecution are definitely different from what I understand of the what the definition given by the scholars of the ancient words.


An imaginary friend, If it is a psychosis, then it's fairly benign.
?
O..... k.... you clearly have a different perspective on psychosis than I ever had.
You find two people having different opinions amusing? Ok.
Since you clearly believe that mine is a psychotic break from reality, yes actually....
You are not simply stating fact. You are stating belief.
That is indeed your belief.
In what way have I told you that I'm not actually enlightened and about what?
Jesus.
To you he's imaginary. And only a friend to people who have a psychosis.
I.e., are mentally unstable.

I'm sure it's possible, I've just never heard of anyone denying gravity.
Of course not.
Neither did I before then.
The best I'd heard about this before were people who were stoned on LSD, and other psychotropic drugs who were convinced they could fly, and would step off a roof, believing that they would simply keep walking at that particular elevation or fly away.
This was a late 1960's, and early 70's phenomenon.
You can't view life from YHVH's perspective.
And of course this is just your opinion and belief. After all, if nobody else is allowed to know anything you don't know, you obviously know what you're talking about, even though you don't know.
???‍♂️??‍♂️
Tell me something....
How long do you think this is going to work?

Because if what you're claiming is actually true, then I couldn't have possibly survived my cancer, let alone my gunshot.




You don't have access to YHVH's perspective.
You are just extrapolating from what is written in the bible.
?
Yeah..... uh-huh.... o....k.....
Well, since you have no idea what you're talking about, I'll continue living my clueless life, which has been stumbling around, and experiencing restoration of my throat, with my medical doctors and professionals who have been telling me that I am a miracle.

No it's just that when you say "once I took the introduction seriously enough." It makes the experience sound not as unassailable as you have previously reported.
Again, thank you for clarifying your opinions, based entirely on your beliefs and assumptions about what you don't actually know, but are clearly desperate to get people to believe you do know.


This apparently was not a normal real life experience.
Which is exactly why I asked.

It was not something as mundane as your first day on a job.
My jobs are anything but mundane the first day.
But you apparently just accepted what others told you about your experience.
That is what continues to make your ignorance more and more unreliable.
If you were living in India you'd be believing in Vishnu right now.
You know, that would indeed make your ignorance easier for you to accept.
I was on my way to atheism on June 27th, 1977, at 6:00 pm. In fact, from 1971 through to 1977, I was headed towards atheism. So, I'm thinking that the only thing you have achieved here is dispensing your ignorance.


You learned to accept what you were told.
So, according to you, I should just ignore what people who have more experience than myself and run amok, like a chicken with its head cut off?

You are showing that you've never thought for yourself a day in your life.
???‍♂️
Yeah.... like you're demonstrating that you have.

So anyone who doesn't accept your claims is an idiot?
Only an idiot would think that.

I'm not ignorant. I've heard all your arguments. I just don't accept your conclusion.
And based on your repeated comments, I find nothing intelligent, reasonable, rational or even remotely logical in them.
It doesn't sound like it.
From the way you relate the story you just accepted what you were told.
That would indeed make your present state of ignorance to take seriously.
Well, since you have repeatedly stated that you actually enjoy being without awareness, without understanding, without experience, you can indeed continue to be without knowledge.


You had experience 'B'. You were told that experience B is because of A so you believe in A.
Sounds like you need to learn how the alphabet works.

You tell me that if I believe in A and do what is instructed I will similarly experience B even though that is not what you did.
Nope. I'm stating what Jesus and YHVH have been saying for millennia.

Do what they say, and they will make themselves known to you.
But apparently you don't actually understand what this means, and continue to conflate what was stated millennia ago with "if I don't do what you say...." so, since you don't actually want to understand, I suppose you should just carry on in your ignorance. It obviously makes you feel more comfortable.

I have done so and not had experience B.
Why should I keep believing in A?
This is exactly what I was referring to.
You keep conflating the truth with your beliefs.
No. Apparently something convinced you and you were told that something was YHVH.
Thank God I didn't stop there.
I continued to learn, live, and grow in my understanding of who YHVH is.
The thing I find curious is that you stopped learning and treat people who do continue learning as idiots.
Definitely makes me wonder what level of school you attained to.
You are choosing to believe something you like the sound of but for which you have absolutely no evidence. You wish me to do the same.
I see no reason to do so.
?

Thankfully, YHVH actually provides evidence, but you don't want the evidence, so you reject learning, gaining understanding and then accuse others of your own actions.
 
What I have pointed out is that all that the dodging relating to claims of inerrancy shows is that none of us have access to inerrant scripture.
Well, since you have repeatedly been stating that it's only your lack of knowledge, your lack of experience, your lack of awareness, and your lack of understanding that matters, I guess I'm not entirely sure what your trying to accomplish here.
You're clearly not interested in knowing the truth, so making unsupported statements carry no weight.
You just don't get it do you Steve. It doesn't matter when you paid. The fact is that by padding the course you effectively paid for history lessons
?
Wow. So ignorance is a good thing with you.

Ok. Well, I suppose I should say thank you for clarifying your motives. It makes it easier to disregard what you think.
I do however find it sad that you are actually berating university professors for including the history of the origins of the respective scientific disciplines and then mocking me for receiving an education in physics.
Atheists from 40+ years ago, I don't recall acting so asinine. Apparently this is a new atheist mindset.

when all you needed was the information required to put the knowledge into practice.
Pity you lack such fundamental awareness of the history and motivations that originated the necessity for the problems they were faced with.
For someone who mocks "just accepting what you're told", you have just demonstrated your own bias towards learning the why about such matters.

Astonishing! Well, I suppose I should just let you continue with your beliefs and biases.

What was the question?
You'll have to read previous posts.
They're scattered throughout. Or, perhaps peppered throughout would be a better way to state it.
So you claim that you had an experience but you expect the rest of us to be happy with second-hand stories. Either the bibles second-hand stories or yours.
Nope.
Both the bible and myself, as well as Jesus followers throughout history have simply provided you with a jumping off point so you can take the time to engage YHVH for yourself and he'll take it from there.

Only justification if it's not true.
It's your ignorance. So if you actually prefer, and believe that ignorance is a good thing, you'll learn the hard way after it's too late to do anything about it so you can benefit from the truth.

No you won't buy anything that would require you to question your logic.
?
Yet another demonstration of your lack of knowledge and understanding.

I've been at this for 16,331 days now.
I've run this through human logic for decades, and found that it's impossible on human terms. We either do it on YHVH's terms, or forget it.

You're talking the difference between the banal, and the superlative.
They don't mix.
This is probably why you never got it. You tried forcing it to fit your banality instead of God's superlatives.

I have further found that it works exactly as defined by YHVH when we do it on his terms.




And that will prove what exactly?
The choice is yours. If you don't actually want to know, then don't.
No it shows that your claim of an internal barometer of the supernatural is baseless.
???‍♂️
It's not my barometer.
YHVH made it, YHVH activates it, and he provides the same impetus to those who believe him and engage him on his terms.

You realise human beings are also animals don't you Steve?
I understand that you believe that.
We however were given a component to our biology that makes us far more than JUST an animal.

YHVH says he made us in his own likeness and image.


Didn't you study biology?
Not college or university biology.
I got the junior high school introduction.
I found it next to impossible to stop laughing at some of the stupidity they kept promoting.
But, that was 50 years ago.
Where? You haven't given any examples of your evaluating your experience against other possible sources.
Why would I at this point? Remember, you're the one who keeps claiming you know everything. So what do you care?

It was long before you were alive, and in a different time and place.
I thought he was omniscient.
What, you don't want to let him know what you're thinking?
His omniscience doesn't mean that he doesn't want you to talk to him.

Did I say "this one thing I can't possibly be deluded about"?
No. We could all be deluded about everything. We might be living in the matrix.
Well, since you have previously established that you are living a lie, you keep telling yourself that.

Thankfully, Jesus was quite clear that by following him, continuing to learn and engage in his teachings we will know the truth and the truth will set us free.
This just sounds like an empty assertion.
Sucks when you don't actually know what you're talking about, doesn't it!
How did you come to that conclusion based upon what I wrote?
Simply read.
Or, would that be read simply...
It's not that difficult.

That you didn't do what Jesus said shows that it isn't that essential.
What do you think that Jesus said that I didn't do?

I have told you what I did.
Well, sounds like you completely blew by it, and totally missed it.


I just repeated it in relaying my church experience which you dismissed.
I had hoped for a description of much greater detail.
So, since you don't want to give that, nothing which you describe had anything to do with doing what Jesus said.

Attending a variety of different churches, but not following their instructions, you essentially sat through a series of lectures and decided they were a waste of your time. Which means that you did not do what Jesus said.



Apart from acknowledging that I was a sinner, repenting of those sins and asking Christ's forgiveness, accepting Christ as my lord and saviour and asking him to come into my life, praying and studying my bible, is there some crucial point that I missed in my effort to be saved.
You just described what you failed to do.



We don't know that Luke was non-Hebrew.
Yes it's not at all extraordinary that any particular people would use their God to back up their rights to a piece of land.
Unless of course YHVH actually is whom he describes himself as in the bible and actually did what he says he will.

Did I mention experiences? Everything I have experienced, I have experienced uniquely as myself.
Does that mean no-one else has had similar experiences? No.
Then why would you actually say that your knowledge is the same as everyone else's?

Something you should also consider as you make such statements.
Unless you can show the promise of eternal life to be real don't tell me I'm being offered a gift.
I already have.
You decided that I'm psychotic, delusional, have an innocuous imaginary friend, and a few other rather curious things.
You're being offered a gift.
Apparently you don't actually want the gift.
 
And yet you're not actually doing what's necessary to investigate it.
I'm working on a time machine it's just taking me a little longer than I thought.

Irritating when your ideas, and biases don't fit reality, isn't it!
Thankfully, we're instructed to focus our attention on Jesus. Hebrews 12:1-3.
I don't know. You tell me?
What does Hebrews 12 have to do with it?

Yep.
We also read,

God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.
Pro 3:34 WEB Surely he mocks the mockers, but he gives grace to the humble.
Jas 4:6 But he gives more grace. Therefore it says, “God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”
1Pe 5:5 Likewise, you younger ones, be subject to the elder. Yes, all of you clothe yourselves with humility, to subject yourselves to one another; for “God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”
So, yes actually.
At which point you need to take responsibility for yourself and decide what matters more to you....

Yourself, your egocentricity, your own comforts..... or the truth.
I'll take the truth. You should too.
 
No. You explicitly stated it.
No I didn't.

Rather curious how that works.
Persecution doesn't carry the same meaning it did back then.
No. Many Christians see not getting their own way as persecution. They see that as a sign that they are aligned with God.

O..... k.... you clearly have a different perspective on psychosis than I ever had.
Yes you obviously think that having a psychosis means someone is a raving lunatic.

Since you clearly believe that mine is a psychotic break from reality, yes actually....
That is indeed your belief.
Jesus.
To you he's imaginary. And only a friend to people who have a psychosis.
I.e., are mentally unstable.
I don't think Jesus is imaginary.
I think he's a guy who died some 2000 years ago.

Of course not.
Neither did I before then.
The best I'd heard about this before were people who were stoned on LSD, and other psychotropic drugs who were convinced they could fly, and would step off a roof, believing that they would simply keep walking at that particular elevation or fly away.
This was a late 1960's, and early 70's phenomenon.
Believing you can fly is not the same as not believing in gravity.

And of course this is just your opinion and belief. After all, if nobody else is allowed to know anything you don't know, you obviously know what you're talking about, even though you don't know.
???‍♂️??‍♂️
Tell me something....
How long do you think this is going to work?

Because if what you're claiming is actually true, then I couldn't have possibly survived my cancer, let alone my gunshot.
You can only view life from your own perspective. Unless you have the ability to inhabit someone else's mind.
Do you?
How long do I think what is going to work?
What am I claiming which would mean that you couldn't have possibly survived cancer, let alone a gunshot.
Not having access to YHVH's perspective?
I don't think that affects anything.

?
Yeah..... uh-huh.... o....k.....
Well, since you have no idea what you're talking about, I'll continue living my clueless life, which has been stumbling around, and experiencing restoration of my throat, with my medical doctors and professionals who have been telling me that I am a miracle.
Again, nothing to do with "Not having access to YHVH's perspective?"

Again, thank you for clarifying your opinions, based entirely on your beliefs and assumptions about what you don't actually know, but are clearly desperate to get people to believe you do know.
Based upon what you said. That's all I have to go on. You said ""once I took the introduction seriously enough."
If there wasn't the possibility of not taking it seriously why did you say that?
Any desperation you perceive is your own projection.

Which is exactly why I asked.
My jobs are anything but mundane the first day.
So your first day on a job is as otherworldly as getting a message from God?
Wow.

That is what continues to make your ignorance more and more unreliable.
Any ignorance on my part is based upon your recounting of events.
You said "they affirmed that it was in fact YHVH"

So, according to you, I should just ignore what people who have more experience than myself and run amok, like a chicken with its head cut off?
You said God communicated with you. Why would you then fall back on other people co-opting that experience? Did God tell you he was YHVH or did other people tell you your experience was YHVH?
You asked the question because you didn't believe those other people. So why would you believe them afterwards?

And based on your repeated comments, I find nothing intelligent, reasonable, rational or even remotely logical in them.
No because I don't accept your conclusion.
I could have the most screwed up chain of logic imaginable but if it happened to arrive at your belief you would praise it.

That would indeed make your present state of ignorance to take seriously.
Well, since you have repeatedly stated that you actually enjoy being without awareness, without understanding, without experience, you can indeed continue to be without knowledge.
Why? Because you've failed again to explain yourself?

Nope. I'm stating what Jesus and YHVH have been saying for millennia.

Do what they say, and they will make themselves known to you.
But apparently you don't actually understand what this means, and continue to conflate what was stated millennia ago with "if I don't do what you say...." so, since you don't actually want to understand, I suppose you should just carry on in your ignorance. It obviously makes you feel more comfortable.
And yet you didn't do that.
So why don't I just ask God if he's real or if all this talk is BS?
Maybe then I'll get an answer.

This is exactly what I was referring to.
You keep conflating the truth with your beliefs.
Thank God I didn't stop there.
I continued to learn, live, and grow in my understanding of who YHVH is.
The thing I find curious is that you stopped learning and treat people who do continue learning as idiots.
Definitely makes me wonder what level of school you attained to.

Thankfully, YHVH actually provides evidence, but you don't want the evidence, so you reject learning, gaining understanding and then accuse others of your own actions.
All we have are beliefs. You keep telling me yours are true but you can't show that to be the case.
I haven't stopped learning. I'm still learning. Your learning didn't get you to YHVH did it. It came afterwards.
If YHVH actually provides evidence he hasn't provided it to me.
 
Well, since you have repeatedly been stating that it's only your lack of knowledge, your lack of experience, your lack of awareness, and your lack of understanding that matters, I guess I'm not entirely sure what your trying to accomplish here.
You're clearly not interested in knowing the truth, so making unsupported statements carry no weight.

?
Wow. So ignorance is a good thing with you.

Ok. Well, I suppose I should say thank you for clarifying your motives. It makes it easier to disregard what you think.
I do however find it sad that you are actually berating university professors for including the history of the origins of the respective scientific disciplines and then mocking me for receiving an education in physics.
Atheists from 40+ years ago, I don't recall acting so asinine. Apparently this is a new atheist mindset.


Pity you lack such fundamental awareness of the history and motivations that originated the necessity for the problems they were faced with.
For someone who mocks "just accepting what you're told", you have just demonstrated your own bias towards learning the why about such matters.

Astonishing! Well, I suppose I should just let you continue with your beliefs and biases.


You'll have to read previous posts.
They're scattered throughout. Or, perhaps peppered throughout would be a better way to state it.

Nope.
Both the bible and myself, as well as Jesus followers throughout history have simply provided you with a jumping off point so you can take the time to engage YHVH for yourself and he'll take it from there.


It's your ignorance. So if you actually prefer, and believe that ignorance is a good thing, you'll learn the hard way after it's too late to do anything about it so you can benefit from the truth.


?
Yet another demonstration of your lack of knowledge and understanding.

I've been at this for 16,331 days now.
I've run this through human logic for decades, and found that it's impossible on human terms. We either do it on YHVH's terms, or forget it.

You're talking the difference between the banal, and the superlative.
They don't mix.
This is probably why you never got it. You tried forcing it to fit your banality instead of God's superlatives.

I have further found that it works exactly as defined by YHVH when we do it on his terms.





The choice is yours. If you don't actually want to know, then don't.

???‍♂️
It's not my barometer.
YHVH made it, YHVH activates it, and he provides the same impetus to those who believe him and engage him on his terms.


I understand that you believe that.
We however were given a component to our biology that makes us far more than JUST an animal.

YHVH says he made us in his own likeness and image.



Not college or university biology.
I got the junior high school introduction.
I found it next to impossible to stop laughing at some of the stupidity they kept promoting.
But, that was 50 years ago.

Why would I at this point? Remember, you're the one who keeps claiming you know everything. So what do you care?

It was long before you were alive, and in a different time and place.

What, you don't want to let him know what you're thinking?
His omniscience doesn't mean that he doesn't want you to talk to him.


Well, since you have previously established that you are living a lie, you keep telling yourself that.

Thankfully, Jesus was quite clear that by following him, continuing to learn and engage in his teachings we will know the truth and the truth will set us free.

Sucks when you don't actually know what you're talking about, doesn't it!

Simply read.
Or, would that be read simply...
It's not that difficult.
What do you think that Jesus said that I didn't do?

Well, sounds like you completely blew by it, and totally missed it.

I had hoped for a description of much greater detail.
So, since you don't want to give that, nothing which you describe had anything to do with doing what Jesus said.

Attending a variety of different churches, but not following their instructions, you essentially sat through a series of lectures and decided they were a waste of your time. Which means that you did not do what Jesus said.
I didn't just sit through a series of lectures. You are so dismissive. You make more assumptions than you accuse me of doing.
You just invent excuses.


You just described what you failed to do.

Unless of course YHVH actually is whom he describes himself as in the bible and actually did what he says he will.

Then why would you actually say that your knowledge is the same as everyone else's?

I already have.
You decided that I'm psychotic, delusional, have an innocuous imaginary friend, and a few other rather curious things.
You're being offered a gift.
Apparently you don't actually want the gift.
You said a gift has to be real. Show me that this "gift" is real. Otherwise you're just peddling empty promises.
 
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I'm working on a time machine it's just taking me a little longer than I thought.
Let me know when you finish it. I'd love to take the trips with you.

The first trip is creation. The next is the flood. After that, Jesus.


I don't know. You tell me?
I just did!
Jesus is reality.
What does Hebrews 12 have to do with it?
Everything. He IS Truth. What he says is Truth,
We read in John 6,
My words are Spirit and life.


I'll take the truth. You should too.
I do, every single day.

Joh 18:37-38 WEB 37 Pilate therefore said to him, “Are you a king then?” Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. For this reason I have been born, and for this reason I have come into the world, that I should testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice.” 38 Pilate said to him, “What is truth?” When he had said this, he went out again to the Jews, and said to them, “I find no basis for a charge against him.

Joh 17:17 WEB Sanctify them in your truth. Your word is truth.

Psa 119:142 WEB Your righteousness is an everlasting righteousness. Your law is truth.

So... yeah! I'll stick with Jesus because he is the truth.
 
No I didn't.
Yeah. You did.
This is that thing mentioned before.
Reality is what YHVH says. Not what you believe.
No. Many Christians see not getting their own way as persecution. They see that as a sign that they are aligned with God.
I can't answer to what other people think.
I can only answer for what I think/say/do.
Yes you obviously think that having a psychosis means someone is a raving lunatic.
a severe mental disorder in which thought and emotions are so impaired that contact is lost with external reality.

Rather curious about that.
I find myself wondering why you are not psychotic, but someone who has been restored to a right relationship with YHVH, who created us in his own likeness and image, and has been given a right perspective of reality is psychotic.

Especially when YHVH told us a very long time ago that he will give us a good understanding, to those who fear him and keep his teachings.

Psa 111:10 WEB The fear of Yahweh is the beginning of wisdom. All those who do his work have a good understanding. His praise endures forever!


That he gives us his peace, confidence, a clear state of mind,...

Isa 26:3-4 WEB 3 You will keep whoever’s mind is steadfast in perfect peace, because he trusts in you. 4 Trust in Yahweh forever; for in Yah, Yahweh, is an everlasting Rock.

Isa 30:15 WEB For thus said the Lord Yahweh, the Holy One of Israel, “You will be saved in returning and rest. Your strength will be in quietness and in confidence.” You refused,

Pro 3:3-9 WEB 3 Don’t let kindness and truth forsake you. Bind them around your neck. Write them on the tablet of your heart. 4 So you will find favor, and good understanding in the sight of God and man. 5 Trust in Yahweh with all your heart, and don’t lean on your own understanding. 6 In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight. 7 Don’t be wise in your own eyes. Fear Yahweh, and depart from evil. 8 It will be health to your body, and nourishment to your bones. 9 Honor Yahweh with your substance, with the first fruits of all your increase:

And he then warns us that people whose sin is great, have great hostility towards the truth, wind up viewing us as crazy and mad/psychotic.

In fact, looking at the verse in the Greek, the word translated into hostility, is the word mania.

Your mania is magnified...

Thus, in fact, it is the ungodly people who are in fact psychotic.

So, I suppose I should say thank you for your help in better understanding this passage.

Because of the greatness of your sin against YHVH, your psychosis is magnified, and as a result you believe that we who follow Jesus are the psychotic and crazy people.

Congratulations!

Hosea 9:7b:
The prophet is called a fool, and the inspired man insane, because of the greatness of your iniquity and hostility.

I don't think Jesus is imaginary.
I think he's a guy who died some 2000 years ago.
He did die.
~1987 years ago actually.

He did not however stay dead. He rose from the dead.
Otherwise there would be no christianity. I doubt there'd even be a footnote in history about it.

I don't think you grasp this one.

Dead messiahs are a penny a million. They're scattered throughout history. Nobody has a clue about what happened to them.

They only reason Islam came into existence was to prevent others from becoming followers of Jesus.

The only reason Hinduism, buddhism and other religions exist today, and didn't fade into the darkness of history is because of Jesus.
I find it curious that they all use Jesus to compare themselves to to give people somewhere else to go.

Mormonism wouldn't exist without Jesus.

So, I encourage you to actually study history.

No resurrected Jesus, history of the past 1980 years would be completely different.


Believing you can fly is not the same as not believing in gravity.
According to you.
You first have to disregard gravity's reality to believe you can ignore it and fly, in spite of gravity.
You can only view life from your own perspective. Unless you have the ability to inhabit someone else's mind.
Ironic....
Because you keep telling me that you have the ability to know what life I'm living in your own mind.
Nope. YHVH however does.

How long do I think what is going to work?
The life of Jesus in my life?
According to Jesus, forever.


What am I claiming which would mean that you couldn't have possibly survived cancer, let alone a gunshot.
YHVH doesn't exist.

Not having access to YHVH's perspective?
I don't think that affects anything.
It affects your entire life and your eternal destination.

Having an accurate perspective on this affects everything.


Again, nothing to do with "Not having access to YHVH's perspective?"
Says the guy who believes that he knows enough to understand what he says cannot be known.

Based upon what you said. That's all I have to go on. You said ""once I took the introduction seriously enough."
If there wasn't the possibility of not taking it seriously why did you say that?
Any desperation you perceive is your own projection.
I'd find that a whole lot easier to believe if you hadn't just spent the past two weeks trying to convince me that I'm psychotic, lost my capacity to reason clearly, and understand reality, maligned medical doctors who have been practicing oncology and medicine for several decades, and are board certified in their respective fields of education and medicine.
So, thank you, but it's quite clear that you have a measured reaction to the truth, and are desperately trying to figure out how to convince people that you alone are the intellectual giant and know what nobody else can know.


So your first day on a job is as otherworldly as getting a message from God?
Wow.
???‍♂️
Case in point.
Your mania is increasing....

Any ignorance on my part is based upon your recounting of events.
You said "they affirmed that it was in fact YHVH"
And?

You said God communicated with you. Why would you then fall back on other people co-opting that experience?
A rather curious issue. I'd never met YHVH before. I had no reference frame from which to make an accurate assessment of what I experienced.
So, I asked people who did have a greater reference frame from which to make an accurate statement.

Did God tell you he was YHVH or did other people tell you your experience was YHVH?
Nope. We didn't have a verbal communication.


You asked the question because you didn't believe those other people. So why would you believe them afterwards?
For the same reason I'd ask my supervisor about the work I'm doing on my first instance of doing the work.

I had no previous framework upon which to establish an accurate assessment.


No because I don't accept your conclusion.
You've repeatedly made that clear.
But, that's the great thing about the truth.
It doesn't require your agreement, permission or approval.

It does however expose you to the truth, and you have to deal with it from there.
It's entirely between you and YHVH at this point.

I could have the most screwed up chain of logic imaginable but if it happened to arrive at your belief you would praise it.
Sounds like a screwed up chain of logic to me.

Why? Because you've failed again to explain yourself?


And yet you didn't do that.
So why don't I just ask God if he's real or if all this talk is BS?
Maybe then I'll get an answer.
Go for it.
I wouldn't focus on what you think I'm saying.

If you actually want to know if he's real or not, if Jesus is for real or just another dead wannabe, ask him.



All we have are beliefs. You keep telling me yours are true but you can't show that to be the case.
You know what I find ironic here...

That you actually think I'm asking you to take me seriously enough to ignore the next rational step of going to YHVH yourself and engaging him on his terms.

Your attitude is like my inviting you to go to a given restaurant and try a specific item on the menu, but you don't actually want to, so instead of going, and trying it, you sit around arguing that it's not real, and I'm psychotic for claiming it.


I haven't stopped learning. I'm still learning. Your learning didn't get you to YHVH did it. It came afterwards.
Yet you continue to argue that I'm psychotic.


If YHVH actually provides evidence he hasn't provided it to me.
He says that he's given you enough for you to know.
 
I didn't just sit through a series of lectures.
If you didn't make a concerted effort to engage in learning what the pastor was describing, and blew off the command to repent and believe the gospel of Jesus, then you have accomplished the same thing.

Jesus describes the problem here, as well as his brother James.

Mat 7:21-27 WEB 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will tell me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty works?’ 23 Then I will tell them, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.’ 24 “Everyone therefore who hears these words of mine and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on a rock. 25 The rain came down, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it didn’t fall, for it was founded on the rock. 26 Everyone who hears these words of mine and doesn’t do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 The rain came down, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell—and its fall was great.”

Jas 1:21-25 WEB 21 Therefore, putting away all filthiness and overflowing of wickedness, receive with humility the implanted word, which is able to save your souls. 22 But be doers of the word, and not only hearers, deluding your own selves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man looking at his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he sees himself, and goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. 25 But he who looks into the perfect law of freedom and continues, not being a hearer who forgets, but a doer of the work, this man will be blessed in what he does.

Hearing God's Word and not doing anything with it because it doesn't make sense to you is the same as blowing it off as idiotic.


You are so dismissive.
Your comments make it really easy.
If you don't want your ideas to be dismissed, then take what you're saying more seriously.

You make more assumptions than you accuse me of doing.
You just invent excuses.
Nope.
When your statements are dealt with by YHVH's Word, I have a framework from which I can deal with them.

Which is exactly what I'm doing.

You said a gift has to be real. Show me that this "gift" is real. Otherwise you're just peddling empty promises.
Engage YHVH on his terms and he will do so himself.

Which should be what you actually want.

I find it curious how YHVH tells us:

Taste and see that YHVH is good.

I've never once been able to find a single reference that says:

Come to Jesus followers and taste them to see YHVH is good.

YHVH's goodness is only knowable by coming to Jesus for yourself.

The gift YHVH is giving us is beyond mere descriptions given by his followers.

It's something that needs to be experienced by directly engaging him, by each individual person.
 
Let me know when you finish it. I'd love to take the trips with you.

The first trip is creation. The next is the flood. After that, Jesus.
It won't go to imaginary events but we can check out Jesus.

I just did!
Jesus is reality.
Then reality is Jesus.
Reality is a lot easier to access.

Everything. He IS Truth. What he says is Truth,
We read in John 6,
My words are Spirit and life.
Empty assertions.
Where is your evidence?

I do, every single day.

Joh 18:37-38 WEB 37 Pilate therefore said to him, “Are you a king then?” Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. For this reason I have been born, and for this reason I have come into the world, that I should testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice.” 38 Pilate said to him, “What is truth?” When he had said this, he went out again to the Jews, and said to them, “I find no basis for a charge against him.

Joh 17:17 WEB Sanctify them in your truth. Your word is truth.

Psa 119:142 WEB Your righteousness is an everlasting righteousness. Your law is truth.

So... yeah! I'll stick with Jesus because he is the truth.
Again, empty assertions. The Bible isn't proof.
 
Yeah. You did.
This is that thing mentioned before.
Reality is what YHVH says. Not what you believe.
Reality is reality not what you believe.

a severe mental disorder in which thought and emotions are so impaired that contact is lost with external reality.
Psychosis can also be mild. Something like hypochondria is a kind of psychosis.

Rather curious about that.
I find myself wondering why you are not psychotic, but someone who has been restored to a right relationship with YHVH, who created us in his own likeness and image, and has been given a right perspective of reality is psychotic.
There is no evidence of a "right relationship with YHVH".
Non-believers can not be shown to be less healthy, mentally or physically, than believers.

Especially when YHVH told us a very long time ago that he will give us a good understanding, to those who fear him and keep his teachings.
Psa 111:10 WEB The fear of Yahweh is the beginning of wisdom. All those who do his work have a good understanding. His praise endures forever!
Some-one told us. Not YHVH.

And he then warns us that people whose sin is great, have great hostility towards the truth, wind up viewing us as crazy and mad/psychotic.
In fact, looking at the verse in the Greek, the word translated into hostility, is the word mania.


Thus, in fact, it is the ungodly people who are in fact psychotic.

So, I suppose I should say thank you for your help in better understanding this passage.

Because of the greatness of your sin against YHVH, your psychosis is magnified, and as a result you believe that we who follow Jesus are the psychotic and crazy people.

Congratulations!

Hosea 9:7b:
The prophet is called a fool, and the inspired man insane, because of the greatness of your iniquity and hostility.
Are you a prophet now?
I don't believe you are crazy. Just wrong.

He did die.
~1987 years ago actually.

He did not however stay dead. He rose from the dead.
Otherwise there would be no Christianity. I doubt there'd even be a footnote in history about it.
Mark Twain - "Never let the truth get in the way of a good story."

They only reason Islam came into existence was to prevent others from becoming followers of Jesus.
The only reason Islam came into existence was because Mohammed wanted the Arabs to have a "revelation" just like the Jews.

The only reason Hinduism, buddhism and other religions exist today, and didn't fade into the darkness of history is because of Jesus.
I find it curious that they all use Jesus to compare themselves to to give people somewhere else to go.
What? They managed quite well long before Jesus came along.
The only place they are compared to Jesus is in Western nations.

Mormonism wouldn't exist without Jesus.
That's because it thinks it is Christianity.

So, I encourage you to actually study history.

No resurrected Jesus, history of the past 1980 years would be completely different.
Yes it be completely different. So what?

According to you.
You first have to disregard gravity's reality to believe you can ignore it and fly, in spite of gravity.
No. They still believe in gravity they just think that somehow they can fly.
Birds fly. I'm sure they still know that there is gravity.

Ironic....
Because you keep telling me that you have the ability to know what life I'm living in your own mind.
No It's my point of view based upon what you tell me.

The life of Jesus in my life?
According to Jesus, forever.
According to what we currently know, until you die.

YHVH doesn't exist.
Glad you finally realise.
Still doesn't mean you couldn't possibly have survived cancer, let alone a gunshot.

It affects your entire life and your eternal destination.
Having an accurate perspective on this affects everything.
Your belief affects your entire life.
Eternal destination not so much.
Our eternal destination is the grave.

I'd find that a whole lot easier to believe if you hadn't just spent the past two weeks trying to convince me that I'm psychotic, lost my capacity to reason clearly, and understand reality, maligned medical doctors who have been practicing oncology and medicine for several decades, and are board certified in their respective fields of education and medicine.
So, thank you, but it's quite clear that you have a measured reaction to the truth, and are desperately trying to figure out how to convince people that you alone are the intellectual giant and know what nobody else can know.
No you'd find easier to believe if you didn't have to defend an inflated sense of your own importance to God.
This "intellectual giant" thing is all your own concoction. Inferiority complex?

And?
A rather curious issue. I'd never met YHVH before. I had no reference frame from which to make an accurate assessment of what I experienced.
So, I asked people who did have a greater reference frame from which to make an accurate statement.
Nope. We didn't have a verbal communication.
So you didn't believe these people enough to believe in God.
But you believed them enough to let them tell you that what you had experienced was YHVH.
How did they have a greater reference frame?
Had they experienced what you experienced?
If they had and YOU hadn't believed THEM then why do you now expect ME to believe YOU?

I had no previous framework upon which to establish an accurate assessment.
So you also had no previous framework to establish the accuracy of their assessment.

You've repeatedly made that clear.
But, that's the great thing about the truth.
It doesn't require your agreement, permission or approval.
It does however expose you to the truth, and you have to deal with it from there.
It's entirely between you and YHVH at this point.
It seems to be entirely between me and you.
I haven't seen YHVH posting anything.

Sounds like a screwed up chain of logic to me.
Only goes to prove my point.

You know what I find ironic here...

That you actually think I'm asking you to take me seriously enough to ignore the next rational step of going to YHVH yourself and engaging him on his terms.

Your attitude is like my inviting you to go to a given restaurant and try a specific item on the menu, but you don't actually want to, so instead of going, and trying it, you sit around arguing that it's not real, and I'm psychotic for claiming it.
No it's more like I have gone to the restaurant and tried that specific item and I have said that it was nothing special.
Rather than accept that, you deny that I ever went to the restaurant. Or you tell me I must have ordered of the wrong menu or a litany of other excuses.

Yet you continue to argue that I'm psychotic.

He says that he's given you enough for you to know.
You fixation on being called psychotic isn't helping your case.
 
It won't go to imaginary events but we can check out Jesus.
Further evidence that you are making assertions about matters you know nothing about.

Then reality is Jesus.
Reality is a lot easier to access.


Empty assertions.
Where is your evidence?
It's only empty for those who don't want to learn the truth.
Again, empty assertions. The Bible isn't proof.
The bible is the basis from which we are able to access him.
We come to him on the basis of what he says he will do on behalf of those who believe him.
 
If you didn't make a concerted effort to engage in learning what the pastor was describing, and blew off the command to repent and believe the gospel of Jesus, then you have accomplished the same thing.
You are injecting your own ideas into what I said.
Where have I said that I "blew off the command to repent and believe".
I have in fact said the opposite. So again you are just inventing excuses.

Jesus describes the problem here, as well as his brother James.

Mat 7:21-27 WEB 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will tell me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty works?’ 23 Then I will tell them, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.’ 24 “Everyone therefore who hears these words of mine and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on a rock. 25 The rain came down, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it didn’t fall, for it was founded on the rock. 26 Everyone who hears these words of mine and doesn’t do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 The rain came down, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell—and its fall was great.”

Jas 1:21-25 WEB 21 Therefore, putting away all filthiness and overflowing of wickedness, receive with humility the implanted word, which is able to save your souls. 22 But be doers of the word, and not only hearers, deluding your own selves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man looking at his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he sees himself, and goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. 25 But he who looks into the perfect law of freedom and continues, not being a hearer who forgets, but a doer of the work, this man will be blessed in what he does.
Hearing God's Word and not doing anything with it because it doesn't make sense to you is the same as blowing it off as idiotic.
You are injecting your own ideas into what I said.

Your comments make it really easy.
If you don't want your ideas to be dismissed, then take what you're saying more seriously.
No. You're imagining I said what you want me to have said, so you could dismiss it.
You're not actually accepting what I tell you and answering accordingly.

Nope.
When your statements are dealt with by YHVH's Word, I have a framework from which I can deal with them.

Which is exactly what I'm doing.
You aren't reading my statements. You're just telling me what I said so it conforms to one of your pre-package excuses.

Engage YHVH on his terms and he will do so himself.

Which should be what you actually want.

I find it curious how YHVH tells us:

Taste and see that YHVH is good.

I've never once been able to find a single reference that says:

Come to Jesus followers and taste them to see YHVH is good.

YHVH's goodness is only knowable by coming to Jesus for yourself.

The gift YHVH is giving us is beyond mere descriptions given by his followers.

It's something that needs to be experienced by directly engaging him, by each individual person.
I find it curious that you keep ignoring the fact that I have already done this. With no result.
Because the Bible claims it can't happen you deny when people tell you it does.
 
Reality is reality not what you believe.
?
Yeah, and Richard Feynman said if anyone ever tells you they understand quantum mechanics, they're lying.

There is a reality beyond everyone's awareness, that is teeming with life, activity, just beyond the realm of our perception. Beyond the veil of sight. The eternal.

As we read in 2 Corinthians, we (who follow Jesus) look not on the temporal, but on the eternal.


Psychosis can also be mild. Something like hypochondria is a kind of psychosis.
It's a good thing that I don't deal with hypochondria then.

There is no evidence of a "right relationship with YHVH".
Well, considering that you have no idea what that means, and all attempts at inviting you to learn are met with excuses, I'd say that until you turn to YHVH from your sin and place your trust in Jesus Christ, you will never know.

Non-believers can not be shown to be less healthy, mentally or physically, than believers.
You apparently missed the medical journal articles that were published over the past couple of years on this very topic.


Some-one told us. Not YHVH.
Yet instead of simply coming to YHVH, calling on his name, and making inquiry about it, you disregard and mock it.

Seems a backwards way to go about it.


Are you a prophet now?
I don't believe you are crazy. Just wrong.
Yet instead of simply coming to Jesus and making inquiries to him, directly, you disregard and mock it.

Seems a rather useless way to handle it.

And while I don't think you'd handle it in this particular manner, Jesus did say that there would come a time when people would believe they were doing God a service by killing his followers because they didn't know him, nor God.

YHVH has made it clear that he has chosen the foolishness of preaching the cross of Jesus to save those who believe him.
He made it quite clear that he didn't choose the wisdom of this world to make himself knowable to us, but chose the foolishness of preaching the cross.



Mark Twain - "Never let the truth get in the way of a good story."
You should pay attention to his statement. Because that's all you have are stories.
I prefer the truth. It's so much better. I don't need to try to remember stories, and just focus on the truth, and learning the truth. It remains consistent, and constant throughout the ages.
The only reason Islam came into existence was because Mohammed wanted the Arabs to have a "revelation" just like the Jews.
So he got an angel from hell to tell him just enough, and filled in the rest with lies.
Oh, wait... I know. Mark Twain told us.... a good story is better than the truth.

You know what I find so intriguing about Islam.... the Quran says that the bible is true.


The irony is that Mohammed claimed that Jesus is a prophet of Allah, but Allah doesn't have a son, Jesus didn't really die, so he could not have been resurrected.
Yet, Jesus said beforehand, numerous times, that he'd be crucified, die, and then rise from the dead.

So, if what the Quran says is true, then Jesus is a liar, which would make him a false prophet. Meaning that Islam is a lie.

If however Jesus did die, and then was resurrected, then the Quran lied, and is therefore false.

Jesus further claimed to be the I AM of Moses, in John 8:58, making him YHVH the Son. The Jews were so incensed that they sought to kill him for blasphemy. A deadly serious crime in Israel.
In John 10, he claimed to be the shepherd of Israel, referred to in the old testament book of Ezekiel, chapter 34. The shepherd of Israel is YHVH.
Later on in John 10, Jesus said that he and the Father were one. This too incensed the Jewish people and they sought to kill him again.
Islam has a seriously schizophrenic view of YHVH and Allah.


What? They managed quite well long before Jesus came along.
The only place they are compared to Jesus is in Western nations.
You don't pay much attention to what is going on in the world now do you?

That's because it thinks it is Christianity.


Yes it be completely different. So what?


No. They still believe in gravity they just think that somehow they can fly.
Birds fly. I'm sure they still know that there is gravity.
That is your opinion. Ironically, you have nothing to back it up, but your own bias and preconceptions.
No It's my point of view based upon what you tell me.
If that was true, you'd be coming to follow Jesus. Which is just further demonstrating that your views are entirely about your own beliefs and assumptions.
According to what we currently know, until you die.
That is your belief.
Glad you finally realise.
Pity you dismissed your own statement to remove the context of my statement.
This would provide further evidence that truth is immaterial to you when you seek your own bias and beliefs.
Still doesn't mean you couldn't possibly have survived cancer, let alone a gunshot.
More of your own assumptions based on your own bias and preconceptions.

Your belief affects your entire life.
Yep. Hence, my trust in Jesus and the truth.
Eternal destination not so much.
Further demonstrating your own bias, preconceptions, assumptions and beliefs about matters you have repeatedly stated you know nothing about, yet somehow know more and better than what YHVH has explicitly given the human race.

Our eternal destination is the grave.
Nope.
The body's state in the grave is a temporary stopping point.
At the resurrection, the living and the dead will be raised from the dead and will stand before God to give an account for our respective lives.

The unjust will go to the lake of fire, which was prepared for the devil and his angels, and the just will spend their eternity in a paradise prepared for them from the foundation of the world.


No you'd find easier to believe if you didn't have to defend an inflated sense of your own importance to God.
?

Thankfully, my "inflated" sense of my own importance to YHVH is based entirely on what YHVH has explicitly stated in the bible.
I'm thinking that the problem here isn't that I have an inflated sense of self-importance to YHVH. rather, you have an over-inflated sense of self-importance to yourself and reject the value and worth YHVH and Jesus have placed on you, and your humanity.

As Jesus died to save us from our sin and the consequences for our sin, it sounds to me like he's the one who thinks exceedingly high of us.

As was written ~1930 years ago.


Joh 3:16-17 WEB

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only born Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him.

And was written ~1965 years ago.

Rom 5:6-12 WEB
6 For while we were yet weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For one will hardly die for a righteous man. Yet perhaps for a good person someone would even dare to die. 8 But God commends his own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we will be saved from God’s wrath through him. 10 For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we will be saved by his life. 11 Not only so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation. 12 Therefore as sin entered into the world through one man, and death through sin; so death passed to all men, because all sinned.

So... me having a falsely inflated view of myself.... not here!

Jesus gave me a more accurate understanding of myself. I prefer his views of me.

What else I find even more astonished by is that he thinks I'm to die for, and that he'd actually delight in me. Yet it's plainly written that he delights in those who fear him, and hope in his mercy!

Psa 147:11 WEB
Yahweh takes pleasure in those who fear him, in those who hope in his loving kindness.

So, I'd encourage you to consider what YHVH has explicitly stated, and choose a more accurate understanding and perspective of yourself.
 
This "intellectual giant" thing is all your own concoction. Inferiority complex?
?
I'd bet you'd love that. Sounds like you have a falsely inflated view of the value of your opinions of people who you don't actually know.

So you didn't believe these people enough to believe in God.
Ironic how that works.
I wouldn't have talked with my supervisor about the job I'm doing before I interviewed for the job, and worked it either.
I not only didn't know about it, I wouldn't have believed it possible.
So, this just continues to demonstrate that you are filled to the hilt with your own bias and preconceptions and false beliefs.

You should dump your self-inflated views. They clearly are not helping you.

But you believed them enough to let them tell you that what you had experienced was YHVH.
Just like I did with my supervisor once I was hired, and found that the work they did was real and knowable.

It's the difference between opinions and reality.
Something you should stop buying the stories and learn the truth. I guarantee Mark Twain would want you to. Regardless of what his present state is.
How did they have a greater reference frame?
Experience which I had just been introduced to.
Had they experienced what you experienced?
That was, indeed, still is the claim of the gospel of Jesus.
If they had and YOU hadn't believed THEM then why do you now expect ME to believe YOU?
I didn't believe what others told me prior to my experience. I thought the whole thing was a pile of religious bs. Which is exactly why I prayed what I did.
Once YHVH responded, it became a whole different situation.
There was something more than religious bs to the gospel of Jesus. It wasn't JUST something from ancient history. It had/has present day ramifications and consequence.


Thus, it is quite clear to me that the problem here is that you have a falsely stated/perceived view of yourself.

YHVH gives us an extremely accurate view of ourselves.
So, by all means please don't take my word for it! Do what I did and find out for yourself.

We do after all read--

Act 17:11 WEB Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

1Th 5:21-22 WEB 21 Test all things, and hold firmly that which is good. 22 Abstain from every form of evil.

Mat 7:24-27 WEB 24 “Everyone therefore who hears these words of mine and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on a rock. 25 The rain came down, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it didn’t fall, for it was founded on the rock. 26 Everyone who hears these words of mine and doesn’t do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 The rain came down, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell—and its fall was great.”

The premise is that the only way to know if something is true or not is to engage in learning, doing, and then seeking to understand what is stated/necessary to know for yourself.

Jesus is inviting you to know for yourself.
He's invited the entire human race to know for ourselves.

So, you can indeed continue to dismiss him because you don't like me. I'm not bothered with your opinions of me.
All I want you to do is to engage him yourself.



So you also had no previous framework to establish the accuracy of their assessment.
Nope. It's usually what is the standard in life.
I had no apriori knowledge. In fact, having worked through this idea in college classes of humanities, I've learned that the only apriori knowledge I had was pooping, peeing, breathing, and perceiving the world around me because I have sight and hearing.

I had no apriori knowledge of eating, using utensils that allowed me to eat in social settings.
99.9% of life is based on gaining education, learning, experience through interaction with others.

So, I'm finding it curious that you have a problem with this.
I had no apriori knowledge or awareness of YHVH's existence.
I'd heard he existed. I'd been hearing it since childhood. But the older I grew, the further from my awareness it became.

It seems to be entirely between me and you.
I haven't seen YHVH posting anything.
Jesus said,
Mat 10:20 WEB For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.
And
Mar 13:11 WEB When they lead you away and deliver you up, don’t be anxious beforehand, or premeditate what you will say, but say whatever will be given you in that hour. For it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit.
And
Luk 12:12 WEB for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that same hour what you must say.”
As well as

Joh 14:26 WEB But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things, and will remind you of all that I said to you.
And
Joh 15:26-27 WEB 26 “When the Counselor has come, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will testify about me. 27 You will also testify, because you have been with me from the beginning.
And

Joh 16:13-15 WEB 13 However when he, the Spirit of truth, has come, he will guide you into all truth, for he will not speak from himself; but whatever he hears, he will speak. He will declare to you things that are coming. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take from what is mine, and will declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are mine; therefore I said that he takes of mine and will declare it to you.

So, what is written, and I copy/paste, YHVH is speaking to you.



Only goes to prove my point.
Bias typically does that.

No it's more like I have gone to the restaurant and tried that specific item and I have said that it was nothing special.
Rather than accept that, you deny that I ever went to the restaurant. Or you tell me I must have ordered of the wrong menu or a litany of other excuses.
Yet the excuses are yours.

As stated, if you want nothing to do with YHVH, he will leave you alone with the consequences for your sin, and upon your death, you'll find out the hard way exactly what that means....
You fixation on being called psychotic isn't helping your case.
I'm not the one who keeps saying that I have a psychosis issue.

Don't like it?
Don't use it.
I never would have thought to investigate it further had you never said anything about it in the first place. But, as you kept harping on about it, I decided to investigate it further. I was astonished to learn that it's people whose sin is great, and have great mania against the truth that feel the way you keep describing about yourself.
 
Yeah, and Richard Feynman said if anyone ever tells you they understand quantum mechanics, they're lying.

There is a reality beyond everyone's awareness, that is teeming with life, activity, just beyond the realm of our perception. Beyond the veil of sight. The eternal.

As we read in 2 Corinthians, we (who follow Jesus) look not on the temporal, but on the eternal.
Lucky I didn't claim to understand quantum mechanics then.
The reality beyond everyone's awareness is still knowable. It's just not directly available to our senses.
It's existence doesn't rest solely on faith.

Well, considering that you have no idea what that means, and all attempts at inviting you to learn are met with excuses, I'd say that until you turn to YHVH from your sin and place your trust in Jesus Christ, you will never know.
I'm pretty sure it just means believing in the Bible and accepting Christ.
No I will never know what that feels like nor do I believe it is anything more than a mental construct.

You apparently missed the medical journal articles that were published over the past couple of years on this very topic.
I think I saw one that said SDA's were healthier.

Yet instead of simply coming to YHVH, calling on his name, and making inquiry about it, you disregard and mock it.

Seems a backwards way to go about it.
No I've done both.

Yet instead of simply coming to Jesus and making inquiries to him, directly, you disregard and mock it.

Seems a rather useless way to handle it.

And while I don't think you'd handle it in this particular manner, Jesus did say that there would come a time when people would believe they were doing God a service by killing his followers because they didn't know him, nor God.

YHVH has made it clear that he has chosen the foolishness of preaching the cross of Jesus to save those who believe him.
He made it quite clear that he didn't choose the wisdom of this world to make himself knowable to us, but chose the foolishness of preaching the cross.
I did come to Jesus and making inquiries to him but you don't accept that because I didn't find YHVH and that doesn't match your biblical narrative.
Paul made it clear. He was trying to bolster his followers so they'd keep believing his foolishness.

You should pay attention to his statement. Because that's all you have are stories.
I prefer the truth. It's so much better. I don't need to try to remember stories, and just focus on the truth, and learning the truth. It remains consistent, and constant throughout the ages.
No, you just prefer your stories.

So he got an angel from hell to tell him just enough, and filled in the rest with lies.
I think he just made it up.

You know what I find so intriguing about Islam.... the Quran says that the bible is true.


The irony is that Mohammed claimed that Jesus is a prophet of Allah, but Allah doesn't have a son, Jesus didn't really die, so he could not have been resurrected.
Yet, Jesus said beforehand, numerous times, that he'd be crucified, die, and then rise from the dead.

So, if what the Quran says is true, then Jesus is a liar, which would make him a false prophet. Meaning that Islam is a lie.

If however Jesus did die, and then was resurrected, then the Quran lied, and is therefore false.
I don't find that intriguing at all.
Mohammed obviously cribbed it from what went before.
Jesus said the words the writers of the Gospel put in his mouth.
Long after he was dead.
So if the Quran is true, the Gospel writers are liars.

Jesus further claimed to be the I AM of Moses, in John 8:58, making him YHVH the Son. The Jews were so incensed that they sought to kill him for blasphemy. A deadly serious crime in Israel.
In John 10, he claimed to be the shepherd of Israel, referred to in the old testament book of Ezekiel, chapter 34. The shepherd of Israel is YHVH.
Later on in John 10, Jesus said that he and the Father were one. This too incensed the Jewish people and they sought to kill him again.
Islam has a seriously schizophrenic view of YHVH and Allah.
Really? Or is he just saying God (I am) was there before Abraham?
John was the last Gospel.
Written long after the formalisation of Paul's Christology.
That is why the John's Jesus is quite different from the other Gospels.

You don't pay much attention to what is going on in the world now do you?
I try to. Why? Is something special going on?

If that was true, you'd be coming to follow Jesus. Which is just further demonstrating that your views are entirely about your own beliefs and assumptions.
Why would I? You telling me about your life gives me no reason to follow Jesus.

More of your own assumptions based on your own bias and preconceptions.
No it's based upon my experience of life.
I've seen people survive cancer and I've seen people survive gunshots.
No reason to believe YHVH's intervention was required.

Yep. Hence, my trust in Jesus and the truth.

Further demonstrating your own bias, preconceptions, assumptions and beliefs about matters you have repeatedly stated you know nothing about, yet somehow know more and better than what YHVH has explicitly given the human race.
Yes I'm biased against claims that have no evidentiary basis other than an old collection of books.

Nope.
The body's state in the grave is a temporary stopping point.
At the resurrection, the living and the dead will be raised from the dead and will stand before God to give an account for our respective lives.

The unjust will go to the lake of fire, which was prepared for the devil and his angels, and the just will spend their eternity in a paradise prepared for them from the foundation of the world.
Strange how this paradise that had been prepared since the foundation of the world doesn't get much of an airing in the OT.

As Jesus died to save us from our sin and the consequences for our sin, it sounds to me like he's the one who thinks exceedingly high of us.
Jesus died because he was an annoyance to the Romans.

And was written ~1965 years ago.

Rom 5:6-12 WEB
6 For while we were yet weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For one will hardly die for a righteous man. Yet perhaps for a good person someone would even dare to die. 8 But God commends his own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we will be saved from God’s wrath through him. 10 For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we will be saved by his life. 11 Not only so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation. 12 Therefore as sin entered into the world through one man, and death through sin; so death passed to all men, because all sinned.
Death was already in the world.
Nothing to do with sin.

So... me having a falsely inflated view of myself.... not here!
Jesus gave me a more accurate understanding of myself. I prefer his views of me.
What else I find even more astonished by is that he thinks I'm to die for, and that he'd actually delight in me. Yet it's plainly written that he delights in those who fear him, and hope in his mercy!

Psa 147:11 WEB
Yahweh takes pleasure in those who fear him, in those who hope in his loving kindness.

So, I'd encourage you to consider what YHVH has explicitly stated, and choose a more accurate understanding and perspective of yourself.
YHVH has explicitly stated nothing. It is all the ideas of man.
When YHVH rolls up and explicitly states something then I'll pay attention.
 
Lucky I didn't claim to understand quantum mechanics then.
The reality beyond everyone's awareness is still knowable. It's just not directly available to our senses.
It's existence doesn't rest solely on faith.
And have you, or are you just believing what others have said about it?

Because if you haven't actually done so, you believe its existence based solely on blind faith.

I'm pretty sure it just means believing in the Bible and accepting Christ.
You're pretty sure.... sounds like you don't actually know, and just accept what others think.
This is rather curious. Just yesterday you mocked that kind of belief, saying you couldn't possibly believe something based on that.


No I will never know what that feels like nor do I believe it is anything more than a mental construct.
Yet you have no problem whatsoever with accepting what others tell you.
You sound like someone who despises mental constructs, yet live by mental constructs, without actually knowing what you're talking about.

I think I saw one that said SDA's were healthier.
You think.....
Perhaps you should stop thinking and actually learn. It's clearly not helping you to just think you know.





The list goes on for a while.
No I've done both.
Clearly not.

I did come to Jesus and making inquiries to him but you don't accept that because I didn't find YHVH and that doesn't match your biblical narrative.
It doesn't fit the biblical narrative, period.
How many different translations would you like to see it stated in?

I have 120 of them at my fingertips. They all say the same thing, including in Greek, Hebrew and Latin.

Joh 6:37 WEB All those whom the Father gives me will come to me. He who comes to me I will in no way throw out.

It's pretty straightforward. Can you show me where it's construable that Jesus would ignore anyone who comes to him?

This is your opportunity to definitively demonstrate that you are right, and the bible is wrong.

Especially when YHVH says, and Paul reiterates.

Rom 10:13 WEB For, “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Joe 2:32 WEBIt will happen that whoever will call on Yahweh’s name shall be saved; ....

Come on T. Show us.


Paul made it clear. He was trying to bolster his followers so they'd keep believing his foolishness.
And yet they're in heaven right now and you're arguing that you know better and there is no eternal life.

No, you just prefer your stories.
?
Ironically, Jesus said that he preferred stories too.

Mat 13:10-17 WEB 10 The disciples came, and said to him, “Why do you speak to them in parables?” 11 He answered them, “To you it is given to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, but it is not given to them. 12 For whoever has, to him will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever doesn’t have, from him will be taken away even that which he has. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they don’t see, and hearing, they don’t hear, neither do they understand. 14 In them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says, ‘By hearing you will hear, and will in no way understand; Seeing you will see, and will in no way perceive; 15 for this people’s heart has grown callous, their ears are dull of hearing, and they have closed their eyes; or else perhaps they might perceive with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their heart, and would turn again, and I would heal them.’ 16 “But blessed are your eyes, for they see; and your ears, for they hear. 17 For most certainly I tell you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see the things which you see, and didn’t see them; and to hear the things which you hear, and didn’t hear them.

I further note that YHVH spoke great truths by stating them in story methods.

Mat 13:34-35 WEB 34 Jesus spoke all these things in parables to the multitudes; and without a parable, he didn’t speak to them, 35 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken through the prophet, saying, “I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things hidden from the foundation of the world.”

So, I'm thinking that if it's good enough for the creator of the cosmos to describe the Kingdom of God to his creation, I can't really go wrong describing God's Kingdom to people such as yourself.
I think he just made it up.
Of course you do. That's because you think too highly of your views and not highly enough of YHVH's.
I don't find that intriguing at all.
Mohammed obviously cribbed it from what went before.
Jesus said the words the writers of the Gospel put in his mouth.
Long after he was dead.
So if the Quran is true, the Gospel writers are liars.
You're going to have to show me where Jesus said that the gospel writers put words in his mouth.

Furthermore, I'm reminded that the Quran says that Jesus didn't actually die.... this tells me that they believed that the Roman soldiers were idiots, and didn't actually know what death was.
Curious how they needed 600 years to develop that one. Do you think that the roman government were idiots, and didn't know what death was?


Really? Or is he just saying God (I am) was there before Abraham?
That would tell me that you think the Jewish people who heard him were idiots.

John was the last Gospel.
Why yes! Yes it was. It was written somewhere between 1932 and 1927 years ago.
Written long after the formalisation of Paul's Christology.
And?
Paul wasn't the only follower of Jesus.

That is why the John's Jesus is quite different from the other Gospels.
And? John was a close friend of Jesus. We read in John's gospel that he was a disciple whom Jesus loved.

I try to. Why? Is something special going on?
According to Jesus there is.
Why would I? You telling me about your life gives me no reason to follow Jesus.
Then repent, believe the gospel of Jesus and come follow him.

No it's based upon my experience of life.
I've seen people survive cancer and I've seen people survive gunshots.
No reason to believe YHVH's intervention was required.
Then you have nothing to lose by coming to Jesus, turning to YHVH from your sin and placing your trust in Jesus. And everything to gain.
Yes I'm biased against claims that have no evidentiary basis other than an old collection of books.
Ah. So you find a college education to be biased, and therefore unreliable.
Strange how this paradise that had been prepared since the foundation of the world doesn't get much of an airing in the OT.
Curious how Jesus said

Mat 13:17 WEB For most certainly I tell you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see the things which you see, and didn’t see them; and to hear the things which you hear, and didn’t hear them.




Jesus died because he was an annoyance to the Romans.
It's ironic that Pilate said he found nothing worthy of death in Jesus or his teachings.

Joh 18:38 WEB Pilate said to him, “What is truth?” When he had said this, he went out again to the Jews, and said to them, “I find no basis for a charge against him.

Mat 27:22-25 WEB 22 Pilate said to them, “What then shall I do to Jesus who is called Christ?” They all said to him, “Let him be crucified!” 23 But the governor said, “Why? What evil has he done?” But they cried out exceedingly, saying, “Let him be crucified!” 24 So when Pilate saw that nothing was being gained, but rather that a disturbance was starting, he took water and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, “I am innocent of the blood of this righteous person. You see to it.” 25 All the people answered, “May his blood be on us and on our children!”

Joh 19:19-22 WEB 19 Pilate wrote a title also, and put it on the cross. There was written, “JESUS OF NAZARETH, THE KING OF THE JEWS.” 20 Therefore many of the Jews read this title, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city; and it was written in Hebrew, in Latin, and in Greek. 21 The chief priests of the Jews therefore said to Pilate, “Don’t write, ‘The King of the Jews,’ but, ‘he said, “I am King of the Jews.”’” 22 Pilate answered, “What I have written, I have written.”

So it appears that it wasn't about the Roman's irritation with Jesus.
 
Death was already in the world.
Nothing to do with sin.
Can you definitively demonstrate that, or are you just expressing an unsupported opinion?

YHVH has explicitly stated nothing. It is all the ideas of man.
?
I'm reminded of something like that from not long after the beginning...

Has God really said?!

He initiated the crime that now acts to keep you and billions of others ignorant. Sadly, he only needs to keep you deceived until you die.

When YHVH rolls up and explicitly states something then I'll pay attention.
He already has.
You're clearly NOT paying attention.
 
So far no one has explained that apparent contradiction.
There IS NO "Contradiction" - except with your ignorant and flawed definition of God.

God is not a monolith. He's also Vengeance, Judgement, WRATH, and the one who Provides the way of Salvation by Jesus, and his perfect sin offering.

You have sinned against Him, and thereby deserve whatever punishment is required by Him for that sin.

Your personal opinion of that doesn't mean SPIT.

Simple as that.
 
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