Jesus returns twice.

[CrowCross]

Crowcross....In the second coming Jesus is riding a white horse....in Acts the angels say He will return the same way He left. Jesus didn't ascend on a white horse.

Bonnie....Symbolism. Ever hear of it? Jesus will only return once. But it is off topic for this thread. If you wish to discuss Revelation and how my church interprets it, vs. how you interpret it, I will be happy to do so on the Lutheran forum.

Why was the "symbolism" of a white horse not used when Jesus was taken up, and a cloud hid Him from their sight?

Why did the two men dressed in white (i'm assuming they were angels) say...“Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.”

1 Thes 4:16 tells us....After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

Ascention clouds...rapture when Jesus comes back...clouds. (no white horse)

Rev 19:11...Then I saw heaven standing open, and there before me was a white horse. And its rider is called Faithful and True. With righteousness He judges and wages war......second coming when Jesus comes to earth..white horse. This is not how Jesus left.

Rapture first then second coming second.

 

[Tertiumquid]

Crowcross....In the second coming Jesus is riding a white horse....in Acts the angels say He will return the same way He left. Jesus didn't ascend on a white horse.

Bonnie....Symbolism. Ever hear of it? Jesus will only return once. But it is off topic for this thread. If you wish to discuss Revelation and how my church interprets it, vs. how you interpret it, I will be happy to do so on the Lutheran forum.

Why was the "symbolism" of a white horse not used when Jesus was taken up, and a cloud hid Him from their sight?

Why did the two men dressed in white (i'm assuming they were angels) say...“Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.”

1 Thes 4:16 tells us....After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

Ascention clouds...rapture when Jesus comes back...clouds. (no white horse)

Rev 19:11...Then I saw heaven standing open, and there before me was a white horse. And its rider is called Faithful and True. With righteousness He judges and wages war......second coming when Jesus comes to earth..white horse. This is not how Jesus left.

Rapture first then second coming second.

Just for clarification, are you an advocate of rapture-second coming as one event at the end of history, or are you a a dispensational pre-millennialist? I couldn't exactly tell, but I suspect the former.

 

[CrowCross]

Just for clarification, are you an advocate of rapture-second coming as one event at the end of history, or are you a a dispensational pre-millennialist? I couldn't exactly tell, but I suspect the former.

birth pains, rapture, 7 tear trip, second coming, 1000 year reign.

 

[Tertiumquid]

birth pains, rapture, 7 tear trip, second coming, 1000 year reign.

Thanks. I rarely have discussions about Eschatology.

I was raised with the view you're advocating. Boy were we wrong... a lot... especially in the late 70 / 80's when we interpreted "generation" as 40 years and then did math based on Israel being reborn in 1948. Oops! Back to the drawing board!!!!

 

[CrowCross]

Thanks. I rarely have discussions about Eschatology.

I was raised with the view you're advocating. Boy were we wrong... a lot... especially in the late 70 / 80's when we interpreted "generation" as 40 years and then did math based on Israel being reborn in 1948. Oops! Back to the drawing board!!!!

Israel being reborn in 1948 did happen. Prophecy was fulfilled...or seems very much that it was fullfilled.

Setting the date is what is wrong. But, the rapture is presented in the bible and the rapture will happen. Can we know the season? I think so.

Techonology is all but in place to fulfill Rev 13....I think it's almost there but not quite. This tells us we are more than likely about to enter into the season...

 

[Tertiumquid]

Israel being reborn in 1948 did happen. Prophecy was fulfilled...or seems very much that it was fullfilled.

Setting the date is what is wrong. But, the rapture is presented in the bible and the rapture will happen. Can we know the season? I think so.

Techonology is all but in place to fulfill Rev 13....I think it's almost there but not quite. This tells us we are more than likely about to enter into the season...

My point is that I lived during a heightened period of Dispensationalism when it was extremely popular in the United States. I had Hal Lindsey books and saw "A Thief in the Night" and "A Distant Thunder" fairly often at church. All the hype back then was like, "we are more than likely about to enter into the season." That's what happens when you read the tea leaves constructed in the 1800's.

To make this relevant to the Lutheran forum... Luther was also confident like you that humans could "know the season." He, in fact, said very much similar to you that "we are more than likely about to enter into the season." Luther was... um, wrong.

 

[BJ Bear]

Crowcross....In the second coming Jesus is riding a white horse....in Acts the angels say He will return the same way He left. Jesus didn't ascend on a white horse.

Bonnie....Symbolism. Ever hear of it? Jesus will only return once. But it is off topic for this thread. If you wish to discuss Revelation and how my church interprets it, vs. how you interpret it, I will be happy to do so on the Lutheran forum.

Why was the "symbolism" of a white horse not used when Jesus was taken up, and a cloud hid Him from their sight?

The obvious answer is Acts is not a book of symbols as is Revelation..

 

[CrowCross]

My point is that I lived during a heightened period of Dispensationalism when it was extremely popular in the United States. I had Hal Lindsey books and saw "A Thief in the Night" and "A Distant Thunder" fairly often at church. All the hype back then was like, "we are more than likely about to enter into the season." That's what happens when you read the tea leaves constructed in the 1800's.

To make this relevant to the Lutheran forum... Luther was also confident like you that humans could "know the season." He, in fact, said very much similar to you that "we are more than likely about to enter into the season." Luther was... um, wrong.

Luther's world didn't contain the systems to setup and impliment the mark of the beast and have it accomplish what the bible says it will do. Currently we are very close to that. Covid passports are an example of a similar (proto-type) system being set up in certain parts of the world.

In Luther's world the Gospel could not have been spread over the entire planet like it can be with todays technology.

 

[CrowCross]

The obvious answer is Acts is not a book of symbols as is Revelation..

In Revelation Christ returns is a victorious battle ready situation....symbol or not....He didn't ascend in that fashion.

 

[Tertiumquid]

Luther's world didn't contain the systems to setup and impliment the mark of the beast and have it accomplish what the bible says it will do. Currently we are very close to that. Covid passports are an example of a similar (proto-type) system being set up in certain parts of the world.

In Luther's world the Gospel could not have been spread over the entire planet like it can be with todays technology.

I suspect you weren’t into this stuff in the 1970s and 1980s like I was, or perhaps you weren’t even alive yet. We said the same sort of thing about reading the seasons. Dispensational theology suffers from using externals to interpret Scripture. It uses an external to determine what the Bible is saying. That negates scripture interpreting scripture.

 

[CrowCross]

I suspect you weren’t into this stuff in the 1970s and 1980s like I was, or perhaps you weren’t even alive yet. We said the same sort of thing about reading the seasons. Dispensational theology suffers from using externals to interpret Scripture. It uses an external to determine what the Bible is saying. That negates scripture interpreting scripture.

I bought the book 88 reasons in 88.

Back in 88 we didn't have the technology to pull of Rev 13 mark of the beast. We kinda have it now. I still think we need the "AI singularity" to occur.
This may be an example of the singularity.....And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain.

 

[BJ Bear]

@Tertiumquid
@CrowCross

Just to be sure, would one of you define what you mean by season and seasons? Thanks.

 

[BJ Bear]

In Revelation Christ returns is a victorious battle ready situation....symbol or not....He didn't ascend in that fashion.

This looks like a Christological problem. Are you one of those who think that the right translation of Acts 3:21 is that Christ must remain heaven rather than whom heaven must receive?

 

[CrowCross]

This looks like a Christological problem. Are you one of those who think that the right translation of Acts 3:21 is that Christ must remain heaven rather than whom heaven must receive?

I never thought about it.

 

[CrowCross]

@Tertiumquid
@CrowCross

Just to be sure, would one of you define what you mean by season and seasons? Thanks.

It's sorta like a pregnant women. The season would be the ninth month...but you don't know if she would be 2 weeks early, on time or 2 weeks late.

What are the signs that can tell if we are in the ninth month...or season? The Gospel has pretty much been preached through out the world...Matt 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. As for that sign I think you can say, check.

As pointed out earlier technology has advanced pretty much to the point Rev 13 can happen. I don't think we're just quite there yet, but, pretty close.

Side bar:
I'm still trying to understand the following verse and trying to figure out if its pre or post rapture.
Rev 5:13 And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying,
“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever!”
14 And the four living creatures said, “Amen!” and the elders fell down and worshiped.

I have never heard of a time when every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them say the above.

 

[Tertiumquid]

I bought the book 88 reasons in 88.

Back in 88 we didn't have the technology to pull of Rev 13 mark of the beast. We kinda have it now. I still think we need the "AI singularity" to occur.
This may be an example of the singularity.....And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain.

How do you know whether or not the Covid vaccines are NOT the mark of the beast? See, if you use externals to interpret the Bible, you can come up with anything. The problem fundamentally with your method of interpretation is that it violates scripture interpreting scripture.

 

[CrowCross]

How do you know whether or not the Covid vaccines are NOT the mark of the beast? See, if you use externals to interpret the Bible, you can come up with anything. The problem fundamentally with your method of interpretation is that it violates scripture interpreting scripture.

The covid jabs are not a MARK....the jab in and of itself has nothing to do with the right hand or forehead.

 

[shnarkle]

Thanks. I rarely have discussions about Eschatology.

I was raised with the view you're advocating. Boy were we wrong... a lot... especially in the late 70 / 80's when we interpreted "generation" as 40 years and then did math based on Israel being reborn in 1948. Oops! Back to the drawing board!!!!

Here's one I just heard that might send a lot of people back to the drawing board, i.e. Israel cannot come back into existence until the return of messiah. I've never heard this, but just this morning a Jew revealed this to me. I'm going to have to hit the Judaism board to find out why this has to be the case...

 

[Tertiumquid]

The covid jabs are not a MARK....the jab in and of itself has nothing to do with the right hand or forehead.

Yes but you’re picking and choosing the way symbolic language is to be understood. In this instance, you’re interpreting symbolic language literally. And around and around we go. This is what happens when you violate a principle of sola scriptura.

 

[CrowCross]

Yes but you’re picking and choosing the way symbolic language is to be understood. In this instance, you’re interpreting symbolic language literally. And around and around we go. This is what happens when you violate a principle of sola scriptura.

You're making a claim...and not supporting what you say. How am I interpreting symbolic language literally???
What makes you think the mark is symbolic and will not be a literal mark of some curently unknown source placed on the forehead or right hand?