Jesus said, this is the work of God, that you believe……

Carbon

Well-known member
What does the word "you" mean in what you quoted?

“This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

The Work of God is the means by which "YOU" are to respond.
It’s because of God’s work and giving us the gift of faith enabling us to believe.
If God hadn't put forth the effort to provided something to "believe in"... Then YOU wouldn't have been able to believe.
Lol, really? He gave us something to believe in? You should be ashamed of yourself how you treat God’s word. Your on the verge of breaking the third commandment by saying God said something He didn’t say.
You're wanting to add an extra condition.
No friend, that’s you. Your locked into your system.
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
You got lost, we were not defining faith, we were defining work
So I pick 3. Your choices mention faith as it relates to work. O helped you and gave you a third option. Your welcome.

Faith involves no work in my paradigm because it is a gift given by a gracious God. Hence "unconditional election"
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
So I pick 3. Your choices mention faith as it relates to work. O helped you and gave you a third option. Your welcome.

Faith involves no work in my paradigm because it is a gift given by a gracious God. Hence "unconditional election"
Really?
You use the word "work" and I ask you to define it
So you define "faith."

text book Calvinistic response
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Really?
You use the word "work" and I ask you to define it
So you define "faith."

text book Calvinistic response
Work, exerting force, expending energy. It was inherent in my response.

I did not define faith. Your reading comprehension skills need some work. Typical Arminian avoiding and deflecting from the issue.
 

TibiasDad

Well-known member
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. So here, we read that God's people (his sheep), hear his voice (Law & Gospel), and Christ knows them, and they follow him (Faith/Trust/Wisdom/Love). And all of this is his doing, not ours! Even while we were hostile enemies of God (Romans 4). We believe because God has opened our hearts and minds to understand the truth and believe!
All this is, is an indicative statement about those who had already believed! The verbs are all present, indicative, active, not passive, meaning that the sheep are acting of their own accord for their own benefit. There is nothing to imply that there are a select group of people who alone are chosen!



But some mistaken this regeneration as to being placed in a position to decide to make God's work effectual by it. So Faith becomes the root rather than the fruit of our Salvation. To locate your redemption in your response rather than in the Gospel itself, it becomes another gospel.

We are not put into a position "to decide to make God's work effectual"; the atonement has effected all that it was meant to accomplish. The atonement makes it possible for God to extend grace to man instead of wrath because of Christ's death. This is accomplished regardless of our decision. The scapegoat, however, cannot be set free to carry away our sins until we confess our sins upon his head, that is confess to Christ that we have sinned against him, and that we believe that he has died for our sins and will carry them away never to be remembered again!

Christ's atonement is not ever ineffectual, it has done all that it was meant to do. Whether we believe in what he has done or not does not change the fact that God has been reconciled to the world, that wrath has been turned away and that the extension of grace is now possible, and that whosoever believes will be saved! Christ has accomplished all of this, and it is finished! My benefiting from it what he has finished doesn't make it unfinished!


Doug
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
All this is, is an indicative statement about those who had already believed! The verbs are all present, indicative, active, not passive, meaning that the sheep are acting of their own accord for their own benefit. There is nothing to imply that there are a select group of people who alone are chosen!





We are not put into a position "to decide to make God's work effectual"; the atonement has effected all that it was meant to accomplish. The atonement makes it possible for God to extend grace to man instead of wrath because of Christ's death. This is accomplished regardless of our decision. The scapegoat, however, cannot be set free to carry away our sins until we confess our sins upon his head, that is confess to Christ that we have sinned against him, and that we believe that he has died for our sins and will carry them away never to be remembered again!

Christ's atonement is not ever ineffectual, it has done all that it was meant to do. Whether we believe in what he has done or not does not change the fact that God has been reconciled to the world, that wrath has been turned away and that the extension of grace is now possible, and that whosoever believes will be saved! Christ has accomplished all of this, and it is finished! My benefiting from it what he has finished doesn't make it unfinished!


Doug
You are Willing to challenge @Ladodgers6 ?? Are you sure you're not a Braves Fan?
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Work, exerting force, expending energy. It was inherent in my response.

I did not define faith. Your reading comprehension skills need some work. Typical Arminian avoiding and deflecting from the issue.
Ok, thanks for the definition. Then you are not using the word work to mean "good works" whereby people think they gain God's favor.
you are using it stictly to mean expend energy.

Then you are missing the actual argument. Believing you may expend some infintessimal amout of energy and be called work, but faith is never a good work,
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Ok, thanks for the definition. Then you are not using the word work to mean "good works" whereby people think they gain God's favor.
you are using it stictly to mean expend energy.

Then you are missing the actual argument. Believing you may expend some infintessimal amout of energy and be called work, but faith is never a good work,
You said faith is exertion. Exertion is work. So exerting faith is good exertion or work. Quanity is irrelevant.
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
All this is, is an indicative statement about those who had already believed! The verbs are all present, indicative, active, not passive, meaning that the sheep are acting of their own accord for their own benefit. There is nothing to imply that there are a select group of people who alone are chosen!





We are not put into a position "to decide to make God's work effectual"; the atonement has effected all that it was meant to accomplish. The atonement makes it possible for God to extend grace to man instead of wrath because of Christ's death. This is accomplished regardless of our decision. The scapegoat, however, cannot be set free to carry away our sins until we confess our sins upon his head, that is confess to Christ that we have sinned against him, and that we believe that he has died for our sins and will carry them away never to be remembered again!

Christ's atonement is not ever ineffectual, it has done all that it was meant to do. Whether we believe in what he has done or not does not change the fact that God has been reconciled to the world, that wrath has been turned away and that the extension of grace is now possible, and that whosoever believes will be saved! Christ has accomplished all of this, and it is finished! My benefiting from it what he has finished doesn't make it unfinished!


Doug
It does not say the sheep already heard His voice Doug. This would also imply the sheep were once goats. It does not say that anywhere either.

What was the intent of the atonement Doug? To save or simply make salvation possible? Did Christ atone for the lost in hell? I find that position abhorrent.
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Ok, thanks for the definition. Then you are not using the word work to mean "good works" whereby people think they gain God's favor.
you are using it stictly to mean expend energy.

Then you are missing the actual argument. Believing you may expend some infintessimal amout of energy and be called work, but faith is never a good work,
Then what is it and it's origin is what??
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
You said faith is exertion. Exertion is work. So exerting faith is good exertion or work. Quanity is irrelevant.
quantity? not sure where you got that from
But the difference I am pointing out is between "work" and "good works"
One is simply expenditure of energy, the other is a supposed deed that earns righteousness.
But we do not work for righteousness, out faith is reckoned to our account as righteousness
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Then what is it and it's origin is what??
What is faith and where does it come from.
Again there are at least 4 Biblical answers
1. Our faith is the body of doctrines we have in the Bible
2. Faith is a special gift given to Christians as a fruit of the spirit to believe God for answered prayer
3. Faith is that gift from God that allows us to know He is there
4. Faith is entrusting ourselves to Jesus
 

civic

Well-known member
What is faith and where does it come from.
Again there are at least 4 Biblical answers
1. Our faith is the body of doctrines we have in the Bible
2. Faith is a special gift given to Christians as a fruit of the spirit to believe God for answered prayer
3. Faith is that gift from God that allows us to know He is there
4. Faith is entrusting ourselves to Jesus
where does the bible make the above 4 claims ?

got scripture for your above assumptions ?

got references for any of the above claims ?

if you do please cite them for us, if not then do not and we will know its ONLY YOUR OWN PERSONAL IDEAS.

hope this helps !!!
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
where does the bible make the above 4 claims ?

got scripture for your above assumptions ?

got references for any of the above claims ?

if you do please cite them for us, if not then do not and we will know its ONLY YOUR OWN PERSONAL IDEAS.

hope this helps !!!
If you do not know the origin of these 4 ideas then you do not know the Bible very well.
But to other posters, If you trully do not know where these 4 ideas are taught, I am happy to discuss each idea and the scriptures the ideas are derived from.
For instance, number 4, faith is entrusting ourselves to Jesus. Does anyone really need to be shown specific scripture to know that is a Biblical truth? It is all thru the Word.
Hit me up, let's talk.
 
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