Jesus said, this is the work of God, that you believe……

civic

Well-known member
If you do not know the origin of these 4 ideas then you do not know the Bible very well.
But to other posters, If you trully do not know where these 4 ideas are taught, I am happy to discuss each idea and the scriptures the ideas are derived from.
For instance, number 4, faith is entrusting ourselves to Jesus. Does anyone really need to be shown specific scripture to know that is a Biblical truth? It is all thru the Word.
Hit me up, let's talk.
You do not know you Bible if you cannot reference your ideas with Scripture and reconcile them.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
You do not know you Bible if you cannot reference your ideas with Scripture and reconcile them.
That would be true. You have to know the Word to be able to cite it,
Over the long period I have interacted with you I have shown you these 4 ideas a few different times in scripture.
You disagree with me about what scripture means, but it is false to claim I do not ever show scripture
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
What is faith and where does it come from.
Again there are at least 4 Biblical answers
1. Our faith is the body of doctrines we have in the Bible
2. Faith is a special gift given to Christians as a fruit of the spirit to believe God for answered prayer
3. Faith is that gift from God that allows us to know He is there
4. Faith is entrusting ourselves to Jesus
That does not answer my question. I asked where does faith originate from?

As for number 3 why can it be a gift to know He is there but not a gift in the salvific sense?
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
quantity? not sure where you got that from
But the difference I am pointing out is between "work" and "good works"
One is simply expenditure of energy, the other is a supposed deed that earns righteousness.
But we do not work for righteousness, out faith is reckoned to our account as righteousness
You mentioned miniscule not I.

You said we exert faith. Not I Expending energy involves work.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
That does not answer my question. I asked where does faith originate from?

As for number 3 why can it be a gift to know He is there but not a gift in the salvific sense?
Actually in those 4 statements I absolutely did address where each use of the word, each type of faith originates.
Did you read them?
One reason why faith is a gift in one place and not in another is because of each instance being a noun or a verb.
A noun can be a gift, a verb is something we do. Rules of grammar
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Actually in those 4 statements I absolutely did address where each use of the word, each type of faith originates.
Did you read them?
One reason why faith is a gift in one place and not in another is because of each instance being a noun or a verb.
A noun can be a gift, a verb is something we do. Rules of grammar
So it is something we do? Work then. How do you "do" faith?
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
You mentioned miniscule not I.

You said we exert faith. Not I Expending energy involves work.
Yes energy is needed for work. Neither energy nor work save us. Jesus saves, but He does say "Come." And if we are to come, that takes energy, Though He makes it clear that work does not save, along with the idea that if we refuse to come, He will not save us.
 
Last edited:

Sethproton

Well-known member
So it is something we do? Work then. How do you "do" faith?
How do you do faith? That is a simple question that has been answered here many times.
The Greek word can mean "to entrust yourself to" When you believe in Jesus, you are entrusting yourself to Him.
That is what you must "do" to be saved, trust Jesus.
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
How do you do faith? That is a simple question that has been answered here many times.
The Greek word can mean "to entrust yourself to" When you believe in Jesus, you are entrusting yourself to Him.
That is what you must "do" to be saved, trust Jesus.
And the origin of this trust is from where?
 

civic

Well-known member
That would be true. You have to know the Word to be able to cite it,
Over the long period I have interacted with you I have shown you these 4 ideas a few different times in scripture.
You disagree with me about what scripture means, but it is false to claim I do not ever show scripture
No you have not only in your imagination
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
And the origin of this trust is from where?
Trust comes from knowing truths about God and seeing that He is trustworthy.
When we speak specifically of the use of the Greek word that means to entrust ourselves to Jesus, that is our decision.
If you are speaking about the faith to know that God exists, that is a gift from God. Without it, we would know nothing about Him and have no conviction about our need for Him. But that faith does not save, it enlightens and provokes us.
 

Ladodgers6

Well-known member
All this is, is an indicative statement about those who had already believed! The verbs are all present, indicative, active, not passive, meaning that the sheep are acting of their own accord for their own benefit. There is nothing to imply that there are a select group of people who alone are chosen!
Tibias I have nothing but respect for you, but this is ridiculous. I see you only pick a small section of my post and Scripture. So allow me to provide the whole run of the passages.

John 10: 24 So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.” 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

There's so much to unpack here. Okay, the Jews badly wanted Jesus to say, he is the Son of God. But Jesus says to them, I told you who I am, but you do not believe. Even though, Jesus was performing miracles, and fulfilling his Father's will to save his people from their sins. But this wasn't enough for them. They wanted to hear it from Jesus himself. But they couldn't believe BECAUSE they were not among his Sheep (God's Elect/His People). Verse 26, emphasizing they unbelief; why, BECAUSE, Jesus says they are NOT AMONG MY SHEEP. Let's dig deeper here, they don't believe because they can't even hear Jesus, so obviously won't follow him. Therefore Tibias, you can try to twist this anyway you want, but these passages are crystal clear, that God's people, whom God promised; made a Covenant of Grace by sending a Redeemer who will come and save them from their sins (Gospel).
We are not put into a position "to decide to make God's work effectual"; the atonement has effected all that it was meant to accomplish. The atonement makes it possible for God to extend grace to man instead of wrath because of Christ's death. This is accomplished regardless of our decision. The scapegoat, however, cannot be set free to carry away our sins until we confess our sins upon his head, that is confess to Christ that we have sinned against him, and that we believe that he has died for our sins and will carry them away never to be remembered again!

Christ's atonement is not ever ineffectual, it has done all that it was meant to do. Whether we believe in what he has done or not does not change the fact that God has been reconciled to the world, that wrath has been turned away and that the extension of grace is now possible, and that whosoever believes will be saved! Christ has accomplished all of this, and it is finished! My benefiting from it what he has finished doesn't make it unfinished!


Doug

Then what is it and it's origin is what??
You're wasting your time with this troll!
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
The Dodgers finally showed up last night; I hope it goes to 7! I don’t have a dog in the fight, but I love great baseball! As a lifelong Reds fan, I have reason to dislike both teams. I also have reasons to disagree with @Ladodgers6 as I have clearly stated.
My doctor is sending me to the Hospital because now my foot has Staph mrsr. Intervenius antibiotics all weekend, then set up at home for 6-8 week pic line...

Since he told me that, I feel wore out physically. I'm beginning to wonder if my Day is coming soon...
 

Ladodgers6

Well-known member
The Dodgers finally showed up last night; I hope it goes to 7! I don’t have a dog in the fight, but I love great baseball! As a lifelong Reds fan, I have reason to dislike both teams. I also have reasons to disagree with @Ladodgers6 as I have clearly stated.
We agree on something, I also like watching great baseball. Hopefully we can replicate last year win over the Braves in 7 games, and go Back 2 Back. As far as your post, I will reply today. I read your post, and I totally disagree with you, I'll show you why.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
My doctor is sending me to the Hospital because now my foot has Staph mrsr. Intervenius antibiotics all weekend, then set up at home for 6-8 week pic line...

Since he told me that, I feel wore out physically. I'm beginning to wonder if my Day is coming soon...
I will pray for you now
 

Ladodgers6

Well-known member
My doctor is sending me to the Hospital because now my foot has Staph mrsr. Intervenius antibiotics all weekend, then set up at home for 6-8 week pic line...

Since he told me that, I feel wore out physically. I'm beginning to wonder if my Day is coming soon...
I'm sorry to hear that my Dear Brother in Christ! Stay strong, and positive. Know and believe that you have peace with God in Christ. Take time to rest and read the good news of what Christ has accomplished for us. Hearing and reading the Gospel must be hear or read daily. I'll pray for you, and worry not for the Lord is with you!

In Christ Alone!
 

civic

Well-known member
Trust comes from knowing truths about God and seeing that He is trustworthy.
When we speak specifically of the use of the Greek word that means to entrust ourselves to Jesus, that is our decision.
If you are speaking about the faith to know that God exists, that is a gift from God. Without it, we would know nothing about Him and have no conviction about our need for Him. But that faith does not save, it enlightens and provokes us.
What Greek word ?

Cite your source
 
Top