JESUS, "THE ECHAD"

101G

Well-known member
JESUS - The ECHAD
"The Lord Jesus Return Date"

Foundation Scripture: Matthew 16:28 "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

Teaching Scripture: Matthew 24:36 "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

Two Question are asked by critics of the Lord Jesus return.
A. If the Lord Jesus is God, Why then he Don’t know his Return Date?
B. has he already returned according to Matthew 16:28 above?

Answer:
his return is of a two fold nature.
we will give the very most short answer.​

Until now, there have been some puzzling scripture that the majority, if not all, christian in the body of Christ could not definitively explain completely. Matthew 16:28" Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom”. and Mark 9:1" And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power”. and lastly Luke 9:27 "But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God”.

These three verses of scriptures have puzzle a many of Christians for years. that puzzlement is now revealed, and put in its proper place. here was the dilemma of the verses. a. if the Lord Jesus have not returned in power, even today, (because many are still waiting for his return). then there are some very, very old people walking around today. that idea is not biblical, because no where in the bible is it written after the Lord Jesus spoke theses word is it recorded that any man lived at least 2,000 plus years after these saying. so this nullifies anyone still walking around as a human over 2,000 years old. even per-flood after the fall of Adan in sin no one made it to a thousand. so again that theory out. but lets get the correct understanding of this revelation.

His, the Lord Jesus, first return is in Spirit, (at Pentecoast), in "MANIFESTATION" of the Spiritual "GIFTS". not an "Apperance", but in Manifestation. supportive scripture, John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you." and how did he come? John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."
So, his, the Lord Jesus, first return is in Spirit, of his GIFTS in which he poured out at pentecost, foretold by the Prophet of GOD, Joel 2:28 & 29. and this coming fulfils Matthew 16:28, where some did not taste death before he returned.

and his second return is in Glorified flesh and bones., this is when he will "APPERAR" the second time, scripture, Hebrews 9:28 "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation." for the first time he "APPEARED" in flesh and bone was with blood,Luke 2:25 as "COMFORTER".

so the two fold returns are first in Spirit, (which happen on the day of Pentecostt), in "MANIFESTATION" of the Spiritual Gifts. and his next return is to come, scripture, Revelation 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen." THIS IS THE "APPERANCE", HERE EVERY EYE WILL SEE HIM. verses his first return at Pentecost where only those saw his MANIFESTATION in the Spiritual Gifts. supportive scripture, John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him." John 14:22 "Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?"
so this first return is not seen by every eye. but the second apperance will be witness by every eye.

so Matthew 16:28 is fulfilled. and Revelation 1:7 is yet to come.


Now, If the Lord Jesus is God, Why then he Don’t know his Return Date?
to keep it short and for space see the tpoic, "Was Jesus Omniscient, Omnipotent and Omnipresent during His life on Earth?" and here is the post link, https://forums.carm.org/threads/was...sent-during-his-life-on-earth.272/post-300258

a couple of mysteries cleared up, by knowing diversity. or the "ECHAD" of God.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

101G

Well-known member
To all who seek God in honesty, Deuteronomy 6:4 is the KEY to understanding God as ONE PERSON, "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:" anbd this Oneness is not in the way the UPC teaches it, or as some others. no, ONENESS of God is in the "ECHAD" or the "DIVERSITY" of God as the "ANOTHER" of himself in flesh..... meaning "ADAM. yes, God is the ADAM to come. for the TERM "ADAM" means ... "ANOTHER", another of God in natural Flesh. listen to the definition of ADAM, it is the Hebrew word,
H120 אָדָם 'adam (aw-dawm') n-m.
ruddy i.e. a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.).
[from H119]
KJV: X another, + hypocrite, + common sort, X low, man (mean, of low degree), person.
Root(s): H119

see how the kjv can translate "Adam?".... "ANOTHER", just as H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') in the OT at Deuteronomy 6:4 which express "another", in Ordinal designation of "FIRST", and "LAST". the same as G243 Allos in the Greek, in the NT at John 14:16 which express "another", Spiritual designation of Father/Comforter/First, and Son/Advocate, or Mediator/LAST. same one person.

and to fully understand this KEY is to understand the TERM... "Beginning", both at Genesis 1:1 and at John 1:1.

which express God as the H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') in in place, time, order or rank, meaning in Ordinal designations. wich include the "END".

so get, or obtain the keys that the apostles had, the KEYS to the Kingdom. in KNOWLEDGE, and in UNDERSTANDING.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
To all who seek God in honesty, Deuteronomy 6:4 is the KEY to understanding God as ONE PERSON, "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:" anbd this Oneness is not in the way the UPC teaches it, or as some others. no, ONENESS of God is in the "ECHAD" or the "DIVERSITY" of God as the "ANOTHER" of himself in flesh..... meaning "ADAM. yes, God is the ADAM to come. for the TERM "ADAM" means ... "ANOTHER", another of God in natural Flesh. listen to the definition of ADAM, it is the Hebrew word,
H120 אָדָם 'adam (aw-dawm') n-m.
ruddy i.e. a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.).
[from H119]
KJV: X another, + hypocrite, + common sort, X low, man (mean, of low degree), person.
Root(s): H119

see how the kjv can translate "Adam?".... "ANOTHER", just as H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') in the OT at Deuteronomy 6:4 which express "another", in Ordinal designation of "FIRST", and "LAST". the same as G243 Allos in the Greek, in the NT at John 14:16 which express "another", Spiritual designation of Father/Comforter/First, and Son/Advocate, or Mediator/LAST. same one person.

and to fully understand this KEY is to understand the TERM... "Beginning", both at Genesis 1:1 and at John 1:1.

which express God as the H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') in in place, time, order or rank, meaning in Ordinal designations. wich include the "END".

so get, or obtain the keys that the apostles had, the KEYS to the Kingdom. in KNOWLEDGE, and in UNDERSTANDING.

PICJAG, 101G.
Deut. 6:4 is the KEY to understanding God as ONE God, ONE Being.
 

101G

Well-known member
Deut. 6:4 is the KEY to understanding God as ONE God, ONE Being.
That's Ignorant of you, we all agree that God is ONE Spirit/Being, per John 4:24a, but the question is, God ONE PERSON? now, tell us what or Who is the DIFFERENCE in God as the "PERSON", H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') at Deuteronomy 6:4 and the God the Person, at Deuteronomy 32:15?

God in both scriptures, my source, Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments

Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:"
God: H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m.
אֱלֹהֵי 'elohiy (el-o-hee') [alternate plural]
1. (literally) supreme ones.
2. (hence, in the ordinary sense) gods.
3. (specifically, in the plural, especially with the article) the Supreme God (i.e. the all supreme).
4. (sometimes) supreme, used as a superlative.
5. (occasionally, by way of deference) supreme magistrates, the highest magistrates of the land.
6. (also) the supreme angels (entities of unspecified type).
[plural of H433]
KJV: angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
Root(s): H433

did you see that? [plural of H433] so who is H433? PLURAL, not in BEING/NATURE, but plural in PERSON(S)? lets see.

Deuteronomy 32:17 "They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not."
God: H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) n-m.
אֱלֹהַּ 'eloahh (el-o'-ah) [shortened (rarely)]
1. one with supreme strength and ability.
2. the Supreme Being, God the Creator, Yahweh by name.

3. a supreme entity, a god-like creature (that is, one of God's supreme creations, or one of man's inventions).
[probably prolonged (emphat.) from H410]
KJV: God, god.

JG, did you get that, look at definition #2. the Supreme Being, God the Creator, Yahweh by name.

do you see the difference now? take your time and LOOK IT UP.

NOW, Deuteronomy 6:4 states, "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:", God here is H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m. as in GEVESIS 1:1.... who is CREATOR in the BEGINNING. are you getting this?

definition #2. states, H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah), is the CREATOR, the the Supreme God and Deuteronomy 6:4 states H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') is the the Supreme God the CREATOR.

are you really understanding what the bible is saying?

PICJAG, 101G.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
That's Ignorant of you, we all agree that God is ONE Spirit/Being, per John 4:24a, but the question is, God ONE PERSON? now, tell us what or Who is the DIFFERENCE in God as the "PERSON", H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') at Deuteronomy 6:4 and the God the Person, at Deuteronomy 32:15?

God in both scriptures, my source, Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments

Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:"
God: H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m.
אֱלֹהֵי 'elohiy (el-o-hee') [alternate plural]
1. (literally) supreme ones.
2. (hence, in the ordinary sense) gods.
3. (specifically, in the plural, especially with the article) the Supreme God (i.e. the all supreme).
4. (sometimes) supreme, used as a superlative.
5. (occasionally, by way of deference) supreme magistrates, the highest magistrates of the land.
6. (also) the supreme angels (entities of unspecified type).
[plural of H433]
KJV: angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
Root(s): H433

did you see that? [plural of H433] so who is H433? PLURAL, not in BEING/NATURE, but plural in PERSON(S)? lets see.

Deuteronomy 32:17 "They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not."
God: H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) n-m.
אֱלֹהַּ 'eloahh (el-o'-ah) [shortened (rarely)]
1. one with supreme strength and ability.
2. the Supreme Being, God the Creator, Yahweh by name.

3. a supreme entity, a god-like creature (that is, one of God's supreme creations, or one of man's inventions).
[probably prolonged (emphat.) from H410]
KJV: God, god.

JG, did you get that, look at definition #2. the Supreme Being, God the Creator, Yahweh by name.

do you see the difference now? take your time and LOOK IT UP.

NOW, Deuteronomy 6:4 states, "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:", God here is H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m. as in GEVESIS 1:1.... who is CREATOR in the BEGINNING. are you getting this?

definition #2. states, H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah), is the CREATOR, the the Supreme God and Deuteronomy 6:4 states H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') is the the Supreme God the CREATOR.

are you really understanding what the bible is saying?

PICJAG, 101G.
Yep, the Bible is saying there is ONE God.
 

101G

Well-known member
Yep, the Bible is saying there is ONE God.
ERROR, the Bible is saying that there is ONE God who is an ECHAD of himself in Flesh.

READ the DEFINITIONS again, for if H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') is a plural of H433 which means it is only ONE PERSON, who is "ANOTHER of HIMSELF, who is A. "LORD" as in Deuteronomy 6:4.... (smile). and Lord, (shared in flesh), as in John 13:13... (smile), :eek: YIKES!.

PICJAG, 101G.
 
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101G

Well-known member
@johnny guitar, understand, H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') is the plural of H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah). do you KNOW what that mean? answer, in plain English, H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) is not "plural" Uh Oh ...... :eek: YIKES!.

now you're in HOLE, a deep, deep hole.

understand, to be the plural of H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh, "HIMSELF", it has to be the same "ONE" person who is the "ECHAD" of HIMSELF, which is called a "diversity" or is as the Greek term states, G243 ALLOS, ANOTHER of HIMSELF which is to come. which John 1:1, Isaiah 44:24, Phil 2:6, Genesis 1:26 & 27 just a few states. states. a plurality of himself in flesh. is the ECHAD of the First and the Last, the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the End, the ROOT and the OFFSPRING, the LORD and the Lord, and get this, the Father, and the Son, all summed up in the TERM "BEGINNING", which indicate, the first, in place, time, order or rank
H7225 רֵאשִׁית re'shiyth (ray-sheeth') n-f.
1. the first, in place, time, order or rank.
2. (specifically) a firstfruit.
[from the same as H7218]
KJV: beginning, chief(-est), first(-fruits, part, time), principal thing.
Root(s): H7218

BINGO, no, checkmate, game over, on your three persons.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
ERROR, the Bible is saying that there is ONE God who is an ECHAD of himself in Flesh.

READ the DEFINITIONS again, for if H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') is a plural of H433 which means it is only ONE PERSON, who is "ANOTHER of HIMSELF, who is A. "LORD" as in Deuteronomy 6:4.... (smile). and Lord, (shared in flesh), as in John 13:13... (smile), :eek: YIKES!.

PICJAG, 101G.
New age mysticism.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
@johnny guitar, understand, H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') is the plural of H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah). do you KNOW what that mean? answer, in plain English, H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) is not "plural" Uh Oh ...... :eek: YIKES!.

now you're in HOLE, a deep, deep hole.

understand, to be the plural of H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh, "HIMSELF", it has to be the same "ONE" person who is the "ECHAD" of HIMSELF, which is called a "diversity" or is as the Greek term states, G243 ALLOS, ANOTHER of HIMSELF which is to come. which John 1:1, Isaiah 44:24, Phil 2:6, Genesis 1:26 & 27 just a few states. states. a plurality of himself in flesh. is the ECHAD of the First and the Last, the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the End, the ROOT and the OFFSPRING, the LORD and the Lord, and get this, the Father, and the Son, all summed up in the TERM "BEGINNING", which indicate, the first, in place, time, order or rank
H7225 רֵאשִׁית re'shiyth (ray-sheeth') n-f.
1. the first, in place, time, order or rank.
2. (specifically) a firstfruit.
[from the same as H7218]
KJV: beginning, chief(-est), first(-fruits, part, time), principal thing.
Root(s): H7218

BINGO, no, checkmate, game over, on your three persons.

PICJAG, 101G.
NO game, and the THREE Persons sail along undisturbed.
 

101G

Well-known member
NO game, and the THREE Persons sail along undisturbed.
I'm not playing any GAMES. look don't be BLINDED by the evil one, did you really understand what was said? again understand, to be the plural of H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh, "HIMSELF", it has to be the same "ONE" person who is the "ECHAD" of HIMSELF, to be the H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem')
Understand JG, H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') is the plural of H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah), who is NOT PLURAL. hello?

are you GETTING THIS? H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) in order to GET, to, or be PLURAL it had to be a ONE First....... use your brain for a second. THINK man, to get a plural ... "FROM" one the ONE must be FIRST in order to get ... "ANOTHER". to even have a plurality at all.

so your three PERSON goes down the drain.

the second REASON: if H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) is ONE "PERSON", and H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') is a plural of H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh, if not the same Person, then you have two separate and distinct GODS. for H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') is the plural of H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah), which is GOD, who is ONE

see JG, your reasoning is INCORRECT, meaning you have been decieved. that's right you been taught a false doctrine.

Understand, if the Person in John 1:3 is not the SAME ONE PERSON in Isaiah 44:24, in TIME, PLACE, RANK, and ORDER, then one has "TWO" separate and distinct CREATORS who Made ALL THINGS. do you see your mistake?

there is no way to get around it. either you have TWO GODS or One God in the ECHAD of himself. nothing can be added or taken away here,it's either TWO GODS, or ONE PERSON who is God, in a ECHAD of himself.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

101G

Well-known member
To all who follow this topic, the ECHAD is clear in the bible. the KEY as said is in the ECHAD definition of Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:"

ONE: H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') adj.
1. (properly) united, i.e. one.
2. (as an ordinal) first.
[a numeral from H258]
KJV: a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any(-thing), apiece, a certain, (dai-)ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together.
Root(s): H258

and this "ECHAD" is expressed in RANK, PLACE, TIME, and ORDER, which is found in the term "BEGINNING".
BEGINNING: H7225 רֵאשִׁית re'shiyth (ray-sheeth') n-f.
1. the first, in place, time, order or rank.
2. (specifically) a firstfruit.

[from the same as H7218]
KJV: beginning, chief(-est), first(-fruits, part, time), principal thing.
Root(s): H7218

this is why those who believe in /three person is shocked by what the Lord Jesus said about Genesis 1:26, listen, Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

many of those who believe in three persons, say see, Jesus the Son made all things through his Father, or his Father BY Jesus his son. well the Lord Jesus put all that to rest by what he said in the record of our Brother Matthew and Mark. Matthew 19:3 "The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?" Matthew 19:4 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,"

he here is GOD for we know this by our brother Mark record of the same account, Mark 10:5 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept." Mark 10:6 "But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female."

so the HE in Matthews 19:4 is "GOD" in Mark 10:6, so going back to Genesis 1, now we examine the very next verse after 26, Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

STOP, and THINK, God went from a US and OUR in verse 26, to a HIS, and HE in the very next verse..... HOW IS THIS SO? ANSWER, the ECHAD in FIRST, in place, time, order or rank. meaning that the "SON", as the Lord was not at Genesis 1:26 & 27, but JESUS was. to understand this listen below,

the ECHAD qualify God as the "FIRST", and the "LAST", in place, time, order or rank. TITLE, LORD, and FATHER. just as Iasiah 44:24 states, he, the Matthews 19:4, God, mark 10:5 was "ALONE" and "BY HIMSELF", ONE PERSON. Uh Oh, meaning that the Son, the Lord was to come in place, time, order or rank. just as the apostle of God said, Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."

TO COME? yes, in place, time, order or rank. supportive scripture, Galatians 4:4 "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,"

and that Son is HIM, God in FLESH and BLOOD in a Diversified, or in the ECHAD state in his OWN IMAGE ... "MAN".... Zechariah 13:7, BINGO.

so the knowledge of KNOWING that God H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) is the ECHAD of himself, the H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') in the ECHAD as the "FIRST"/Father, and the "LAST"/Son, in place, time, order or rank.

Knowing this eliminates the false teaching of any three person in the Godhead. now if anyone cannot understand this, just ask any reasonable question.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

101G

Well-known member
Here is the prelude to the Book of John.

John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
the Word was "WITH" God..... this term WITH Identify the ECHAD of the First "With" the Last in numerical difference, which was to "COME", Later, IN TIME, PLACE, ORDER, and RANK, but the same one person as the G243 Allos "ANOTHER", of himself in flesh, which MAN/Adam is.... "ANOTHER" of himself as God. just as Eve, the female, is the G2087 heteros "ANOTHER" of the male Adam, because she came from him. but she was in Adam when he GOD made him, Adam. on Day 3, and she was brought forth Later, on day 6. meaning she was MANIFESTED "Later" in flesh, in TIME, PLACE, ORDER, and RANK. what the book of Genesis was doing, giving us a ... sneak preview of how God the H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) became the H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') IN TIME, PLACE, ORDER, and RANK. for John 1:1c is totally correct,
the TERM "ADAM" means "ANOTHER", it is the Hebrew Word, H120 אָדָם 'adam (aw-dawm') n-m.
ruddy i.e. a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.).
[from H119]
KJV: X another, + hypocrite, + common sort, X low, man (mean, of low degree), person.
Root(s): H119

Eve is the "ANOTHER" of Adam.... in the Flesh or in the IMAGE of God, which "ANOTHER" identify the plurality, or the ECHAD of God. as G243 do.... A "NUMERICAL DIFFERENCE, listen to vine dictionary for this definition of another as G2087 heteros, "heteros expresses a qualitative difference and denotes "another" of a different sort."
Now God as the "ANOTHER" .... of HIMSELF, G243 Allos, "Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort".
see the difference now? and the numerical difference expressed in God is in ORDINAL DESIGNATION of "First" and "Last" just as ONE is identify in Deuteronomy 6:4. H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') adj.
1. (properly) united, i.e. one.
2. (as an ordinal) first.
[a numeral from H258]
KJV: a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any(-thing), apiece, a certain, (dai-)ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together.
Root(s): H258

THERE IT IS, PLAIN AS DAY in definition, #2. (as an ordinal) first.

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
Beginning, is the Hebrew word, H7225 רֵאשִׁית re'shiyth (ray-sheeth') n-f.
1. the first, in place, time, order or rank.
2. (specifically) a firstfruit.

[from the same as H7218]
KJV: beginning, chief(-est), first(-fruits, part, time), principal thing.
Root(s): H7218

FIRST, FIRST, FIRST, but notice definition #2 "FIRSTFRUIT", as the LORD, all cap, "JESUS", is the First Fruit of this first creation, likewise in the NEW CREATION he, JESUS, the Lord is the FIRST FRUIT, supportive scripture, 1 Corinthians 15:20 "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept."

so say the the term "BEGINNING" at John 1:1, G746 ἀρχή arche (ar-chee') n.
1. (properly abstract) a commencement.
2. (concretely) chief (in various applications of order, time, place, or rank).
[from G756]
KJV: beginning, corner, (at the, the) first (estate), magistrate, power, principality, principle, rule
Root(s): G756

it's root word, G756 ἄρχομαι archomai (ar'-cho-mai) v.
to commence (in order of time).
[middle voice of G757 (through the implication, of precedence)]
KJV: (rehearse from the) begin(-ning)
Root(s): G757

and this ORDER of TIME is identified in it's root word, v G757 ἄρχω archo (ar'-chō) v.
to be first (in political rank or power).
[a primary verb]
KJV: reign (rule) over

political rank or power? KING, GOVERNOR, LORD, or as Isaiah 9:6 states, "Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace" yes, all the political power... why, let the bible teach us, Romans 13:1 "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God."

this is just the opeaning of John the book.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
I'm not playing any GAMES. look don't be BLINDED by the evil one, did you really understand what was said? again understand, to be the plural of H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh, "HIMSELF", it has to be the same "ONE" person who is the "ECHAD" of HIMSELF, to be the H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem')
Understand JG, H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') is the plural of H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah), who is NOT PLURAL. hello?

are you GETTING THIS? H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) in order to GET, to, or be PLURAL it had to be a ONE First....... use your brain for a second. THINK man, to get a plural ... "FROM" one the ONE must be FIRST in order to get ... "ANOTHER". to even have a plurality at all.

so your three PERSON goes down the drain.

the second REASON: if H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) is ONE "PERSON", and H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') is a plural of H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh, if not the same Person, then you have two separate and distinct GODS. for H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') is the plural of H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah), which is GOD, who is ONE

see JG, your reasoning is INCORRECT, meaning you have been decieved. that's right you been taught a false doctrine.

Understand, if the Person in John 1:3 is not the SAME ONE PERSON in Isaiah 44:24, in TIME, PLACE, RANK, and ORDER, then one has "TWO" separate and distinct CREATORS who Made ALL THINGS. do you see your mistake?

there is no way to get around it. either you have TWO GODS or One God in the ECHAD of himself. nothing can be added or taken away here,it's either TWO GODS, or ONE PERSON who is God, in a ECHAD of himself.

PICJAG, 101G.
NO one Person in Isaiah 44:24; only ONE God.
The Trinity has been a basic doctrine of The Church from the beginning and you are NOT going to change it.
 

101G

Well-known member
First thanks for the reply, second, yes, it's ONLY one Person at Isaiah 44:24, which means that it is the same one Person at John 1:3.... else you have two CREATORS, meaning TWO "GODS"... :eek: YIKES! lol, lol, lol.

understand, 101G is not changing anything, only EXPOSING false doctrine. and YOU have been believing a two thousand year old lie. only the Lord Jesus can change YOU... (smile)... lol.
now what YOU believe or not that's up to YOU, if you sink or swim that's on you, in the Lord Jesus we have thrown YOU a life preserver. what you do with it is your choice.... (smile).

PICJAG, 101G
 

101G

Well-known member
It's just amazing, how christian who suppose to be filled with the Spirit, still believe a two thousand year old lie. (not the church which the Lord Jesus died for), spoke it, NO, but those who as the apostle Paul said, 2 Timothy 3:6 "For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts," 2 Timothy 3:7 "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."

when truth is presented, they reject, well that's a grave mistake to reject the KNOWLEDGE of God, scripture, Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children."

that's a bad place to be in. because this is a "DISCUSSION" FORUM where ... christian can ... discuss the Word of GOD instead of arguing with a made up mind. if what one believes is true then it will stand, else if found in ERROR... repent, or CHANGE from the false belief. what id some didn't chanfe their minds about the GENTILES entrance into the Kingdom?. just an example.

but no DISCUSSION is able if one's mind is blinded from the truth, or have a CLOSE MIND. 2 Timothy 2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

PICJAG, 101G.
 

101G

Well-known member
NO one Person in Isaiah 44:24; only ONE God.
lets make it perfectly clear as to PERSON, in Isaiah 44:24... JG, listen carefully, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"
JG, how many is "I" that's right, a single person designation. so you're reproved again.

people argue, but from IGNORANCE.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
lets make it perfectly clear as to PERSON, in Isaiah 44:24... JG, listen carefully, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"
JG, how many is "I" that's right, a single person designation. so you're reproved again.

people argue, but from IGNORANCE.

PICJAG, 101G.
ONE Lord, ONE God.
 

101G

Well-known member
To all who follow this Topic,

Lets understand the basic of of Diversified Oneness. there is ONLY "ONE" Person in the Godhead, THE Holy Spirit who is JESUS, our Father, per Isaiah 9:6, who Holds the Titles "LORD"/Father, OT/NT, the Ordinal First. and the Title "Lord"/Son in the OLD CREATION, (which we current live in NOW). but in the NEW CREATION, Jesus the Holy Spirit, God is the amalgamation, of the Title "LORD", and "Lord", who is the Alpha and the Omega, or now fully ASSIMILATED in the Spirit.

so there is no more NUMERICAL DIFFERENCES. this is clearly seen in John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." this is the ONENESS of the NEW WORLD which is to come and NOW IS in the Kingdom of God, meaning the Holy Spirit, IN us.

so ONE Spirit, who ... "WAS" as John 1:1 states, "WAS" with God, (the same one person), in the NUMERICAL DIFFERENCE, in (Spirit, Father the Ordinal First),and the Son, (spirit shared), in flesh and blood, so that he could Naturally, (in Flesh), die for our sin, and rose for our JUSTIFICATION.

and this "ONENESS" is describe throughout the New Testament, in Spirit and in TRUTH, for the Lord Jesus is no longer in NATURAL Flesh and Bone, but the scriptures are clear, 2 Corinthians 5:16 "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more."

This is why we must be, and have to be taught by the Holy Spirit to understand this ONENESS in Spirit. yes, the EARLY CHURCH.... IN THE BIBLE, they knew this, as all the apostles, and disciples. for by the Holy Ghost we all must be taught in Spirit, scripture, 1 Corinthians 2:12 "Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God."
1 Corinthians 2:13 "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual."
1 Corinthians 2:14 "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."
1 Corinthians 2:15 "But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man."
1 Corinthians 2:16 "For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."

Let the Holy Spirit teach you, ....... not 101G who is only the instrument of God to communicate a truth. Test the spirit, (man) by .... "THE SPIRIT", (GOD).

so our starting BASE of UNDERSTANDING, is with the ONE PERSON, GOD, the Lord JESUS. who is the ONLY ONE "SPIRIT" who is Holy, yes, the Holy Spirit himself.
yes, in Hebrew, the ASSIMILATION of the First and the Last in the ECHAD, the (H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym), is the ONE TRUE GOD the H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) in SINGULARITY.

LET THE TRUTH BE TOLD........ CORRECTLY.

PICJAG. 101G.
 
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