JESUS, "THE ECHAD"

OldShepherd

Well-known member
Yes, tell the TRUTH, the WHOLE TRUTH, and Nothing but the TRUTH.
and UNDERSTAND this, a half truth is a WHOLE lie in disguise.
so ONE Lord, One God...... ONE PERSON, get the whole TRUTH.
PICJAG, 101G.
Deal with this truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
There is one God! The Son is called/referred to as God, in scripture, but the Son is not the Father or the Spirit.

[1] Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
[2] Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
[3]Luk 7:16 And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people.
[4] Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[5] Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
[6] Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him[God created the world, Gen 1:1], and the world knew him not.
[7] Joh 1:14 And the Word [acting on Himself] became flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
[8] Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten God, μονογενὴς θεὸς ] which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
[9] John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
[10] Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. [Jewish leaders speaking]
[11] Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.[John speaking]
[12] Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, before Abraham was, I am [ אהיה/ehyeh, I am, Ex 3:14].
[13] John 12:41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his [Jesus] glory, and spake of him[יהוה/YHWH, Isa 6:1ff].
Isa 6:1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple
[14] Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
[15] Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was[Jesus was aware of His existence before the world was created.].
[16] Joh 17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine[Everything that belongs to the Father belongs to Jesus]; and I am glorified in them.
[17] Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, [Jesus] My Lord and my God. [Thomas addressed Jesus as God and Jesus praised him.]
[18] Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
[19] Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever[Jesus called God]. Amen.
[20] 2 Cor 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
[Character limit. Continued next post]​
 

OldShepherd

Well-known member
[Previous post continued]
[21] Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
[22] Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
[23] Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
[24] Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
[25] Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever[God calls the Son, God]: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.​
10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
[26] Heb 3:3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.
4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
[27] Phi 2:6 Who, being [existing] in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
[28] 1 Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh[Jesus called God], is justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
[29] 1 Tim 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ[Jesus called God], which is our hope;
[30] 1 Tim 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;[The lamb is king of kings, Rev 17:14, Jesus is king of kings, Rev 19:16, God is Lord of Lords Deu 10:17]
[31] Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ[Jesus called God];
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
[32] 2 Pet 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ[Jesus called God]:
[33] 1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life[Jesus called God].
[34] Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings[יהוה/YHWH, Deu 10:17]: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
[35] Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS[יהוה/YHWH, Deu 10:17].
[36] Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be[יהוה/YHWH, Isa 40:10].
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.[יהוה/YHWH, Isa 44:6]
 

101G

Well-known member
There is one God! The Son is called/referred to as God, in scripture, but the Son is not the Father or the Spirit.
First thanks for the reply, second, did you really LISTEN to your ownself? there is ONE GOD, and John 1:1 c states that the Word is that "ONE God, read John 1:1 again, and especially the c part, "and the Word was God". because here, (IN FLESH), he is in a G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') state.

so what you said contridicted your ownself.

listen OS, Jesus is Saviour ... correct, he "CAME" and saved us, now listen, Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you."

NOW OS, who came and saved us? ... remember you said, "There is one God", so if it's not God, who is Jesus, then you have two Gods, yourself.

UNDERSTAND what you just said, "There is one God! The Son is called/referred to as God" THAT'S TWO GODS. if it's only "ONE" God and the Son is refered to as God... plain and simple you have two Gods, and that's polytheism at it's best.

you don't understand the ECHAD.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

Anthony

Active member
NO one Person in Isaiah 44:24; only ONE God.
The Trinity has been a basic doctrine of The Church from the beginning and you are NOT going to change it.
Which church you are talking about.

Mind you, the first NT Assemblies were started by the Jewish apostles founded upon Lord Jesus Christ. At that time they only had OT - Torah and The Prophets. None of the OT Hebrew scriptures or Septuagint ever taught a Trinity. Neither the Jewish writers wrote about any Trinity. This doctrine came about centuries later. Trinity doesn't exist in scriptures but read in to it by the brainwashing.

The title Father is not to be taken in general way as He revealed to Israel as The Father; Israel being His firstborn son.

The Son of God Who came in flesh is the true Israel of God - representing and mediating for His people.

Exod 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

Hos 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

See Mat 2:15 relates this scripture to the Child Jesus:

15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

Now read Galatians 4:1-5

Who was a child? Israel under the Toah. Israel is the heir to the promises :

1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;

2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons
.

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

All true believers are part of Israel.

The Son of God gives us that right to be the sons of God because we failed in obedience to the Torah. Therefore, He needed us to be set free and give access to His Spirit calling Him Father.

They aren't two Persons but one in Echad.
 
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johnny guitar

Well-known member
Which church you are talking about.

Mind you, the first NT Assemblies were started by the Jewish apostles founded upon Lord Jesus Christ. At that time they only had OT - Torah and The Prophets. None of the OT Hebrew scriptures or Septuagint ever taught a Trinity. Neither the Jewish writers wrote about any Trinity. This doctrine came about centuries later. Trinity doesn't exist in scriptures but read in to it by the brainwashing.

The title Father is not to be taken in general way as He revealed to Israel as The Father; Israel being His firstborn son.

The Son of God Who came in flesh is the true Israel of God - representing and mediating for His people.

Exod 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

Hos 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

See Mat 2:15 relates this scripture to the Child Jesus:

15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

Now read Galatians 4:1-5

Who was a child? Israel under the Toah. Israel is the heir to the promises :

1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;

2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons
.

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

All true believers are part of Israel.

The Son of God gives us that right to be the sons of God because we failed in obedience to the Torah. Therefore, He needed us to be set free and give access to His Spirit calling Him Father.

They aren't two Persons but one in Echad.
The Trinity is clearly revealed in the N. T. and was believed by ALL Christians from the beginning.
 

101G

Well-known member
The Trinity is clearly revealed in the N. T. and was believed by ALL Christians from the beginning.
Where is the Trinity revealed in the NEW TESTAMENT?

and two, no Christian in the early church believed in any trinity. example, the disciple at Damascus, named Ananias. and a disciple is a "FOLLOWER" of the Lord Jesus. well he, Ananias, knew that Jesus is GOD, and God Alone, and referred to him as the "Father". listen, Acts 9:15 "But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:"

God, the Lord Jesus said that he, Saul, now Paul was a chosen vessel unto "HIM". hear what he, the disciple Ananias said when Paul recount to the Jews the event of his Damascus road experience. this is Ananias speaking, Acts 22:14 "And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth." was it not the Lord JESUS who chose Saul, now Paul? listen, Acts 9:15 "But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me". and Ananias in Paul's recount in Acts chapter 22, at verse 14b said, "The God of our fathers hath chosen thee". and there is only ONE God who is "Father", so who is the ONE God that Made us... and is our Father? listen to the bible, first OT, Malachi 2:10 "Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?" NOW, NT, 1 Corinthians 8:6 "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

so the God of our fathers is Jesus the Lord. and it was Jesus who chose Paul. but wait, .......

some have argued that God the Father, and NOT the Lord Jesus the Son, chose Paul, but he, the Father God, chose Saul for his son Jesus. well the apostle, Paul, himself put that lie to bed in his third account before king Agrippa, before going to Rome. lets see it, Acts 26:12 "Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests," Acts 26:13 "At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me." Acts 26:14 "And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks." Acts 26:15 "And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest." Acts 26:16 "But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;"

that word "MAKE" is the same word for choose in Acts 22:14, for it it the Greek word, G4400 προχειρίζομαι procheirizomai (pro-chei-riy'-zo-mai)
1. to handle for oneself in advance.
2. (figuratively) to purpose.
[middle voice from G4253 and a derivative of G5495]
KJV: choose, make
Root(s): G4253, G5495

see how the kjv can translate this word, as a matter of fact this word is not translated so in any other verse in the bible except in Act 22:14 when Ananias used it, in some other verson only once elsewhere.

so it is clear as day, that it was the Lord Jesus ..."GOD", who is the Father who chose Paul. the DISCIPLE had it RIGHT. this is a disciple in agreement with the Apostle, so no, not one EARLY church member was that ignorant of who the Lord Jesus was, only the blinded Jews, of that day, who was not healed, or converted, or as God said, "BLINDED" them until the gentiles came in. just as many as today... many, (not all Jews either), still are blinded, and unconverted.

we suggest one re-read the three accounts of this one event, and LEARN the TRUTH.


PICJAG, 101G.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
Where is the Trinity revealed in the NEW TESTAMENT?

and two, no Christian in the early church believed in any trinity. example, the disciple at Damascus, named Ananias. and a disciple is a "FOLLOWER" of the Lord Jesus. well he, Ananias, knew that Jesus is GOD, and God Alone, and referred to him as the "Father". listen, Acts 9:15 "But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:"

God, the Lord Jesus said that he, Saul, now Paul was a chosen vessel unto "HIM". hear what he, the disciple Ananias said when Paul recount to the Jews the event of his Damascus road experience. this is Ananias speaking, Acts 22:14 "And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth." was it not the Lord JESUS who chose Saul, now Paul? listen, Acts 9:15 "But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me". and Ananias in Paul's recount in Acts chapter 22, at verse 14b said, "The God of our fathers hath chosen thee". and there is only ONE God who is "Father", so who is the ONE God that Made us... and is our Father? listen to the bible, first OT, Malachi 2:10 "Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?" NOW, NT, 1 Corinthians 8:6 "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

so the God of our fathers is Jesus the Lord. and it was Jesus who chose Paul. but wait, .......

some have argued that God the Father, and NOT the Lord Jesus the Son, chose Paul, but he, the Father God, chose Saul for his son Jesus. well the apostle, Paul, himself put that lie to bed in his third account before king Agrippa, before going to Rome. lets see it, Acts 26:12 "Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests," Acts 26:13 "At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me." Acts 26:14 "And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks." Acts 26:15 "And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest." Acts 26:16 "But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;"

that word "MAKE" is the same word for choose in Acts 22:14, for it it the Greek word, G4400 προχειρίζομαι procheirizomai (pro-chei-riy'-zo-mai)
1. to handle for oneself in advance.
2. (figuratively) to purpose.
[middle voice from G4253 and a derivative of G5495]
KJV: choose, make
Root(s): G4253, G5495

see how the kjv can translate this word, as a matter of fact this word is not translated so in any other verse in the bible except in Act 22:14 when Ananias used it, in some other verson only once elsewhere.

so it is clear as day, that it was the Lord Jesus ..."GOD", who is the Father who chose Paul. the DISCIPLE had it RIGHT. this is a disciple in agreement with the Apostle, so no, not one EARLY church member was that ignorant of who the Lord Jesus was, only the blinded Jews, of that day, who was not healed, or converted, or as God said, "BLINDED" them until the gentiles came in. just as many as today... many, (not all Jews either), still are blinded, and unconverted.

we suggest one re-read the three accounts of this one event, and LEARN the TRUTH.


PICJAG, 101G.
Clearly revealed in Mark 1:10-11; John 14:16-23; Matthew 28:19: 2 Cor. 13:14 and MANY other places.
 

101G

Well-known member
Clearly revealed in Mark 1:10-11; John 14:16-23; Matthew 28:19: 2 Cor. 13:14 and MANY other places.

First thanks for the reply, second,
Mark 1:10-11: This has been reproved and rebuked hands down. same one PERSON in the ECHAD.

John 14:16-23" again the same one person. the ECHAD of ONE, in glorification,

Matthew 28:19: again same one person. the ECHAD of ONE, in titles.

2 Cor. 13:14: again same one person. the ECHAD of ONE, see 1 Corinthians 12:4 - 8 ... BINGO,

the SAME "ONE" person, and the proof is in Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

so JG, the the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ is this two separate and distinct "Spirits? yes or no?. note the cap "S" in Spirit.... :eek: YIKES!.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
First thanks for the reply, second,
Mark 1:10-11: This has been reproved and rebuked hands down. same one PERSON in the ECHAD.

John 14:16-23" again the same one person. the ECHAD of ONE, in glorification,

Matthew 28:19: again same one person. the ECHAD of ONE, in titles.

2 Cor. 13:14: again same one person. the ECHAD of ONE, see 1 Corinthians 12:4 - 8 ... BINGO,

the SAME "ONE" person, and the proof is in Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

so JG, the the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ is this two separate and distinct "Spirits? yes or no?. note the cap "S" in Spirit.... :eek: YIKES!.

PICJAG, 101G.
THREE Persons identified in EACH of the above passages.
 

101G

Well-known member
Yep, The same ONE Holy Spirit.
thank you, for there is ONE Spirit? ... Right", lets see, 2 Corinthians 3:17 "Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty."

did you not say, the Spirit is God, and God is A, A, A, ONE Spirit, per John 4:24a and Jesus is that ONE Spirit..... :eek: YIKES!.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
thank you, for there is ONE Spirit? ... Right", lets see, 2 Corinthians 3:17 "Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty."

did you not say, the Spirit is God, and God is A, A, A, ONE Spirit, per John 4:24a and Jesus is that ONE Spirit..... :eek: YIKES!.

PICJAG, 101G.
2 Cor. 3:17 is referring to The ONE Holy Spirit.
You seem to be confused.
 

101G

Well-known member
2 Cor. 3:17 is referring to The ONE Holy Spirit.
You seem to be confused.
Nope, you're lost from the word and understanding of God. for the Lord is that Spirit.

so are you saying that the Holy Spirit is the one Spirit that contain your three persons?
or is you saying that the Lord, (who is Jesus is the Holy Spirit), if so either way you go you loose a person of your three person godhead.

just read what you said, "2 Cor. 3:17 is referring to The ONE Holy Spirit.". if the Lord is that Spirit, (in reference to God's Nature), then you are missing a person, and if you say the Holy Spirit is the one Spirit that contain your three persons again you're missing a person.

see how ignorant your assessment is?

PICJAG, 101G.
 

101G

Well-known member
It's amazing how blind some christians are. when the truth is right before their very own eyes, and yet cannot understand.

well let see if they can grasp solid understanding?

scripture, 1 Corinthians 10:1 "Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;"
1 Corinthians 10:2 "And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;"
1 Corinthians 10:3 "And did all eat the same spiritual meat;"
1 Corinthians 10:4 "And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ."

Jesus Christ is called the "ROCK" and note: THE ROCK was with them in the wilderness, (before he was to come in flesh), and we know that it was "GOD" who was with them in the wilderness, listen carefully.
Acts 13:16 "Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience."
Acts 13:17 "The God of this people of Israel chose our fathers, and exalted the people when they dwelt as strangers in the land of Egypt, and with an high arm brought he them out of it."
Acts 13:18 "And about the time of forty years suffered he their manners in the wilderness."

HOLD IT, it was "GOD" in the wilderness with the people.... now this, Hebrews 3:7 "Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, "Hebrews 3:8 "Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:" Hebrews 3:9 "When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years." Hebrews 3:9 "When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years." Hebrews 3:10 "Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways." Hebrews 3:11 "So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)"

ok, many say this is the Father speaking, well lets see if this is the Father, but is it "JESUS who is Father, the Ordinal First. WHO is the ROCK?
answer, Deuteronomy 32:3 "Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God." Deuteronomy 32:4 "He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he."

BINGO, the ROCK is God who as the apostle Paul said in 1 Corinthians 10:4 Jesus the Christ is that "ROCK", God. so if one say well it was the Father, (YES, Jesus is Father), the Ordinal First. BEFORE HE CAME IN FLESH

side Note: the ROCK who is God, Deuteronomy 32:4, is the God of "TRUTH", and the Holy Spirit is the Spirit/God of TRUTH. Uh Oh? hello, hello
now to make sure that God the LORD, all cap, the "Father" is the ROCK, scripture, Psalms 95:1 "O come, let us sing unto the LORD: let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation." and what about salvation? answer, Acts 4:12 "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

HOLD IT, say that again, "Neither is there salvation in any other", and the LORD is the ROCK of our salvation, who is Christ.... who is the Spirt of TRUTH ..... BINGO. one Person, and ONE person only... "diversified" in the ECHD as the Ordinal First, LORD Father, and Ordinal Last, Lord Son.

oh how easy the word of God is to be understood. bless the joy of knowing the truth.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

OldShepherd

Well-known member
thank you, for there is ONE Spirit? ... Right", lets see, 2 Corinthians 3:17 "Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty."
did you not say, the Spirit is God, and God is A, A, A, ONE Spirit, per John 4:24a and Jesus is that ONE Spirit..... :eek: YIKES!.
PICJAG, 101G.
One can make the Bible say almost anything they want it to by quoting selective verses out-of-context. Shall we review a fuller context of 2 Cor 3:17?
2 Corinthians 3:13-17
13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.​
Vs. 14 the "vail is done away in Christ"
Vs. 16 "when it [Israel] shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away."
Vss. 14 and 16 equates "in Christ" with "turn to the Lord."
"The Lord" vs. 16 is the same "the Lord" vs. 17 which is "Christ" vs. 14.
 

101G

Well-known member
One can make the Bible say almost anything they want it to by quoting selective verses out-of-context. Shall we review a fuller context of 2 Cor 3:17?
2 Corinthians 3:13-17

13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
Vs. 14 the "vail is done away in Christ"
Vs. 16 "when it [Israel] shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away."
Vss. 14 and 16 equates "in Christ" with "turn to the Lord."
"The Lord" vs. 16 is the same "the Lord" vs. 17 which is "Christ" vs. 14.
and CHRIST is that Spirit that was with them in the wilderness.... 1 Corinthians 10:1 "Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;"1 Corinthians 10:2 "And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;"1 Corinthians 10:3 "And did all eat the same spiritual meat;" 1 Corinthians 10:4 "And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ." 1 Corinthians 10:5 "But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness."

thanks for comfriming what I had already said. yes Christ the Lord is GOD. ..... "THAT SPIRIT".

PICJAG, 101G.
 

OldShepherd

Well-known member
and CHRIST is that Spirit that was with them in the wilderness.... 1 Corinthians 10:1 "Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;"1 Corinthians 10:2 "And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;"1 Corinthians 10:3 "And did all eat the same spiritual meat;" 1 Corinthians 10:4 "And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ." 1 Corinthians 10:5 "But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness."
thanks for comfriming what I had already said. yes Christ the Lord is GOD. ..... "THAT SPIRIT".
PICJAG, 101G.
Very good. But that is not the whole story..
There is one God! The Holy Spirit is called/referred to as God, in scripture, but the Spirit is not the Father or the Son. Acts 5:3-4, Acts 28:25-27.
Scripture which identify the Holy Spirit as God

[1] Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
This passage, Act 5:3-4, above, identifies the Holy Spirit as God by equating lying to the H.S. with lying to God.
[2] Act 28:25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:​
27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
This passage Act 28:25-27, above, identifies the Holy Spirit as YHWH by saying the H.S. spoke words which were spoken by YHWH, in Isa 6:8-10, below.
Isa 6:8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, [יהוה/YHWH] saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
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[3] Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. [O.T. see יהוה/YHWH, Jer 31:33-34]
This passage, Heb 10:15-17, above, identifies the Holy Spirit as YHWH by saying words spoken by YHWH, in Jer 31:33-34, below, were spoken by the H.S.
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, [יהוה/YHWH] I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
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[4] Heb 3:7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. [O.T. יהוה/YHWH, Ps 95:10]
11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) [O.T. יהוה/YHWH, Deu 1:34-35]
This passage, Heb 3:7-11, above, identifies the Holy Spirit as YHWH by saying words spoken by YHWH in Psa 95:10-11, and Deu 1:34-35, below, were spoken by the Holy Spirit.
Psa 95:10 Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
11 Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.
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Deu 1:34 And the LORD [יהוה/YHWH] heard the voice of your words, and was wroth, and sware, saying,
35 Surely there shall not one of these men of this evil generation see that good land, which I sware to give unto your fathers,
There is one God! The Father, the Son, and the Spirit, all three are called/ referred to as God, in scripture, but each has a distinct mind, will, and self; John 16:13, 1 Cor 12:11, Philippians 2:5, John 5:26, Rom 8:27, Matthew 26:39
 
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