Jesus the final sacrifice?

[Jewjitzu]

No, you are. If you die without Christ you will forever be lost.

I don't need him. I go straight to the Father. Jesus prayed to him too.

The Old Covenant commands have been abolished (Hebrews 8:13).

Until Heaven and Earth. If you've read Jeremiah 33:14-26, Ezekiel 37-45, you'd know what's coming.

 

[Jewjitzu]

An assertion without proof.

The Jesus whom you reject is the only one who can save you.

Who saved him in the garden, Hebrews 5:7?

I already did and you still have nothing.

Sorry, I'm not buying it. As long as Jesus has knees and a tongue like the rest of us, I won't be bowing to him.

 

[Fred]

I don't need him.

That's just what you think, but it does not accord with reality.

I go straight to the Father.

By rejecting Jesus you do not have the Father (1 John 2:23)

Jesus prayed to him too.

Because the Father is God - and people properly prayed to Jesus which proves He is God.

 

[Fred]

Who saved him in the garden, Hebrews 5:7?

I am talking about now.

The same holds true with Old Covenant. It has been abrogated. It's commands to obey are no longer valid.

Sorry, I'm not buying it.

I didn't either until I accepted the truth.

 

[Jewjitzu]

That's just what you think, but it does not accord with reality.

Reality shows Jesus has knees and a tongue like all humans.

By rejecting Jesus you do not have the Father (1 John 2:23)

By believing in another god you have nothing.

Because the Father is God - and people properly prayed to Jesus which proves He is God.

Nobody prayed to Jesus. Bowing by itself isn't a form of worship nor prayer.

 

[Jewjitzu]

I am talking about now.

If Jesus was saved then, then go to another now.

The same holds true with Old Covenant. It has been abrogated. It's commands to obey are no longer valid.

False prophets and teachers teach abrogation. Until heaven and earth...

I didn't either until I accepted the truth.

Then you're still mislead.

 

[Fred]

Reality shows Jesus has knees and a tongue like all humans.

Which proves?

By believing in another god you have nothing.

He is the same God as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

  - The Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of latreuō

In post #722 the following comment by a certain poster was made: λατρεύω is another such word, it is a special "worship" offered by the saints only to the Father, never to anyone else. https://forums.carm.org/threads/trinitarian-confusion-at-romans-9-5.8316/page-37#post-690593 This accords...

forums.carm.org

Nobody prayed to Jesus.

False.
See Acts 7:59 and 2 Corinthians 12:8.

Bowing by itself isn't a form of worship nor prayer.

I never asserted it was.

 

[Jewjitzu]

Which proves?



He is the same God as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

  - The Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of latreuō

In post #722 the following comment by a certain poster was made: λατρεύω is another such word, it is a special "worship" offered by the saints only to the Father, never to anyone else. https://forums.carm.org/threads/trinitarian-confusion-at-romans-9-5.8316/page-37#post-690593 This accords...

forums.carm.org

False.
See Acts 7:59 and 2 Corinthians 12:8.



I never asserted it was.

You're wasting time with me. While Jesus still is human with knees and a tongue, he requires salvation from another.

You have no out.

Worshipping a human doesn't make it right.

 

[Fred]

You're wasting time with me.

No, I am not.
You are wasting time in your denial. For one day you will confess the Lord Jesus.

While Jesus still is human with knees and a tongue, he requires salvation from another.

Says you, which doesn't mean anything.

You have no out.

I don't need a way out because I am in the family of God by the perfect sacrifice of love given by the Lord Jesus Christ.

Worshipping a human doesn't make it right.

That's why those that worshiped Jesus knew He is God (Romans 10:13).

 

[Jewjitzu]

No, I am not.
You are wasting time in your denial. For one day you will confess the Lord Jesus.




Says you, which doesn't mean anything.



I don't need a way out because I am in the family of God by the perfect sacrifice of love given by the Lord Jesus Christ.




That's why those that worshiped Jesus knew He is God (Romans 10:13).

We know he's not because he prayed to another, worshiped another, bowed to another. And, cried for salvation to another.

It's over.

 

[Fred]

We know he's not because he prayed to another, worshiped another, bowed to another. And, cried for salvation to another.

It's over.

Thus, proving God applies to more than just the Father because the same worship is to be afforded to the Lord Jesus Christ.
https://forums.carm.org/threads/equality-in-worship.7775/#post-537111

 

[Jewjitzu]

Thus, proving God applies to more than just the Father because the same worship is to be afforded to the Lord Jesus Christ.
https://forums.carm.org/threads/equality-in-worship.7775/#post-537111

The worship isn't reciprocated. Jesus isn't the God, and will still bow in the future.

 

[Fred]

The worship isn't reciprocated.

Because the Father never became a man.

Jesus isn't the God

Since He is the proper recipient of prayer proves He is God.

 

[Open Heart]

Thanks


I don't find it confusing. He is confusing is and ought. Just because something was done doesn't necessitate it ought to be done (sin).

Peter sinned (Galatians 2:13), but he ought not have sinned.

Perhaps I came in later on in the conversation. My question has to do with the subtopic of whether the Jewish believers in Jerusalem continued to offer sacrifice. It is clear in Acts 21 that they did. Not only is it proclaimed "You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for Torah," which would include the sacrificial laws, but it later gives example. There are in that chapter some Nazarites who are ending their vows and need to offer sacrifice in order to do so. James sends Paul to accompany them in this sacrifice, and Paul consents to do so. So even Paul offers sacrifice.

 

[Jewjitzu]

Because the Father never became a man.

God cannot be a man.

Since He is the proper recipient of prayer proves He is God.

Who said it is proper to pray to a man? Tanakh doesn't.

 

[Open Heart]

Since He is the proper recipient of prayer proves He is God.

Where does anyone pray to Jesus? Just curious.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Still, the fact remains that the early believers didn't think Jesus' did away with sacrifices. They even brought lambs for sacrifices.

Where is that written?

 

[Open Heart]

Because Jesus is the perfect sacrifice for sin.

Hebrews 10:12
But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God

I don't see how that verse makes it a sin to obey the commandments.

Plus, I don't know if you've thought this through, but if the New Testament contradicts the Tanakh (Old Testament) then it shows that the New Testament is not the valid word of God.

 

[CharismaticLady]

And already debunked with the acts of the apostles and disciples still bringing sacrifices after Jesus' death.

Who did? Besides Paul's vow.

 

[Open Heart]

The Old Covenant commands have been abolished (Hebrews 8:13).

1. So it is now okay to murder, steal, commit adultery, etc.?

2. Jesus specifically said that the Law would NOT pass away until heaven and earth have passed away. Last time I looked out my front door, heaven and earth are still here.

3. If there is contradiction between the Tanakh (OT) and the NT, it proves that the NT is invalid, not the word of God.